1st malfunction--probably due to hard inserts in pillows

[robconway 0]

i had my 1st malfunction this weekend down in Fl.. i was in the middle of an average sit fly when one of my buddies had caught my cutaway pillow with his foot while he was docking. he dislodged it from my harness in a downward fashion which also pulled the cables out about 6to8in(the wind didnt help much to keep them in either).

the reason i am posting this is because i really believe that if it wasnt for the hard insert in my cutaway handle, it wouldnt of happened. simply because of the fact that the pvc insert doesnt allow it to flex.

dont get me wrong, im not trying to say that it wont or cant happen without the hard inserts in there, but it definitely contributed.

to think what would have happened if it where my reserve pillow he kicked out instead of my cutaway. it would have been very ugly, if not tragic.

i can understand if you still keep your hard insert in your cutaway handle due to the tension factor that builds in certain malfunctions. but if you have a hard insert in your reserve handle i would be careful. im getting rid of mine before i jump it again.

by the way, my rig is fairly new with only a hand full of repacks, so i know that the velcro isnt worn out at all on the handles.

thats my 2cents -- Rob

[skybytch 259]

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to think what would have happened if it where my reserve pillow he kicked out instead of my cutaway. it would have been very ugly, if not tragic.

So how are you going to prevent that from happening?

[robconway 0]

well, you can never prevent it from happening. but i think it would reduce your chances if you didnt have the insert in there.

[skybytch 259]

So are you going to remove the hard insert from your reserve handle? If not, how are you going to prevent your reserve handle from being dislodged by someone's foot?

[VTmotoMike08 0]

Can anyone comment authoritatively on if the reserve (pillow) handle is part of the TSO'd components of the rig and therefore cannot be modified unless by a master rigger?

[rushmc 18]

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Can anyone comment authoritatively on if the reserve (pillow) handle is part of the TSO'd components of the rig and therefore cannot be modified unless by a master rigger?

Very good question

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[airtwardo 6]

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Can anyone comment authoritatively on if the reserve (pillow) handle is part of the TSO'd components of the rig and therefore cannot be modified unless by a master rigger?

I was thinking the same thing...

I don't believe you can modify a reserve handle...but you can just buy one without the insert...or get a 'real' one with a metal handle.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[diablopilot 2]

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Can anyone comment authoritatively on if the reserve (pillow) handle is part of the TSO'd components of the rig and therefore cannot be modified unless by a master rigger?

Yes. Some will say not even then, it's a factory manufacture item only.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[AggieDave 6]

[QUOTE]dont get me wrong, im not trying to say that it wont or cant happen without the hard inserts in there, but it definitely contributed.

Funny, my first thought is to get friend to jump with that don't dock on your handles instead of trying to get a modified handle system that could compromise your ability to articulate the handles when you need them.

That seems like a simple solution, but that's just me.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[robconway 0]

yes, i am removing the hard insert from my reserve handle.

[robconway 0]

i dont know about every manufacturer, but Wings would not let my rigger put an insert in my reserve handle; i had to order it from the factory. but, they did let my rigger put the insert into my cutaway handle.

[rushmc 18]

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i dont know about every manufacturer, but Wings would not let my rigger put an insert in my reserve handle; i had to order it from the factory. but, they did let my rigger put the insert into my cutaway handle.

The manufacturer has the final say. They are the one that got the TSO and they understand the limits and requirements. If they WOULD NOT let your rigger remove the insert, you should not either. if they would not let your rigger put one in? You should not do that as well.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[labrys 0]

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Funny, my first thought is to get friend to jump with that don't dock on your handles instead of trying to get a modified handle system that could compromise your ability to articulate the handles when you need them.

That seems like a simple solution, but that's just me.

I think that this is a really good point of thought

Owned by Remi #?

[bclark 0]

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Funny, my first thought is to get friend to jump with that don't dock on your handles instead of trying to get a modified handle system that could compromise your ability to articulate the handles when you need them.

That seems like a simple solution, but that's just me.

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I think that this is a really good point of thought.

I concur!

[diablopilot 2]

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yes, i am removing the hard insert from my reserve handle.

Really? So what is your reserve cable going to attach to?

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[skybytch 259]

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Funny, my first thought is to get friend to jump with that don't dock on your handles instead of trying to get a modified handle system that could compromise your ability to articulate the handles when you need them.

Geez, Dave. There I was trying to lead him to realizing for himself that maybe the real issue wasn't gear related and you go and put it out there...

[labrys 0]

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Really? So what is your reserve cable going to attach to?

Couldn't it attach to the .... ummmm ..... you know? ... the ummmm.....

You know what I mean... it'll attach to the .... ummm....

Owned by Remi #?

[airtwardo 6]

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Really? So what is your reserve cable going to attach to?

Couldn't it attach to the .... ummmm ..... you know? ... the ummmm.....

You know what I mean... it'll attach to the .... ummm....

Thingie...of course!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[jsaxton 0]

I have been told the reason that soft reserve handles came into use is that (especially in FL where there are grass landing areas) people would frequently jump barefoot, and launching a sit-train there were instances where someones toe would get caught in the (hard) reserve handle, subsequentially "zapping" them. this seems to be a "similar" case and would indicate a completely soft reserve pillow as the "optimal" solution,
I'm not an instructor, rigger or have any qualifications whatsoever, plus I'm an asshole

[jsaxton 0]

Give the kid some credit, at least he's THINKING about how the gear works!

[Zing 2]

Sounds like he might also be suggesting that he's going to, and that other people should, too, modify their rigs into something that might not work.

I distinctly recall hearing a well respected master rigger tell a friend of mine that his new rig didn't need that extra backstrap on the lower harness the manufacturer put on. And hotknifed it off.
It was sewed right back on the rig after the first jump post removal when Lowjones found himself hanging upside down by his knees from the legstraps when he fell out of the upper harness.

Zing Lurks

[robconway 0]

let me clarify, im not removing the hard insert from my reserve handle, nor is my rigger. i still have the original reserve handle that doesnt have the insert in it and i am going to swap it out. to have it removed, i would have to send it back to the factory.

i know what you guys are saying when you think im talking about removing the insert that the cable connects to. that is not what i am talking about. this is a piece of pvc that they use for their insert.

that kinda responds to a couple other posts in here. wings pillows dont have the long cylindrical shaped metal insert that connects to the cable. my rigger told me how it is connected, but im not even going to attempt to explain it.

[robconway 0]

it is kinda funny, before posting i told my buddy someone was going to say that exact same thing.

[DougH 270]

Funny, maybe you had a point. How many prematures and mals has the top VRW teams had from this sort of thing. Surely if it was a common problem they would run into it often no?

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[robconway 0]

i cant comment on how many premature openings they've had or malfunctions cuz i have no idea. and i wouldnt go as far to say that it is a "common" problem cuz i doubt this happens often, but it does happen. ive jumped with that guy hundreds of times and it never happened before. it was an accident, and accidents happen. all you can do is take steps to make sure it doesnt happen again.