having a tough time with AFF

[bjelder 0]

Hey all-

I'm 3 jumps into my AFF and still haven't completed stg 2.

It took 2 jumps to pass stage 1 (fucked up royally the 1st time- couldn't get stable at all, they had to pull the pilot chute and everything). The 2nd stage 1 jump was AWESOME, I nailed everything and it was a lot of fun.

I just did my first attempt at stage 2 today- went fairly well.. took a few seconds to get stable and I still can't get the exit right. I jump out and arch as hard as I can but still end up facing down and it takes a few seconds to get the arch down, which then throws off the jump cause I barely have time to do what I need to do.

So the future is looking sorta grim for me, and I don't know if this is for me! I really want to persue this, but so far its just been a shot to the ego.

As for my instructors Nikki and Steen, if your'e out there, I absolutely love y'all. Its nice to have somebody who expects a lot and won't let me just slide through. I wouldn't trade you two for anything :-)

So basically I have great instructors but I'm not really 'getting' it yet.

Any ideas on what to do? Is there anything I can practice to make the jumps easier? It seems like its going to take forever before I can comfortably do anything without a lot of help!

I fly 6 days a week as a flight instructor and am a full time student so Sundays are my only free day, so the jumps have sadly been few and far between.

Any words of inspiration for a struggling student?

Thanks!! :-)

[grannyinthesky 0]

As a fellow struggler, I will say it is worth the effort, so hang in there. And yes, not getting everything right the first time was a blow to my ego for a while. I'm a teacher and pretty used to being right most of the time. I've just had to come to accept the fact that it's a whole new world and it's going to take me some time to get where I want to be. That few seconds of freefall reallly doesn't give much practice time, does it? Are you dong the 7 level version of AFF or the ISP from the SIM? Fortunately, I'm doing the SIM version which is a lot slower paced. Talk to your instructors about what you can do to practice between jumps. I have been on the floor on my belly every night practicing going through the dive for the repeat of my last jump. They may have similar suggestions for you.

"safety first... and What the hell.....
safety second, Too!!! " ~~jmy

POPS #10490

[blackout 0]

Maybe some tunnel time would help you, not on exit obviously but would help stability issues. I am a low time jumper too and frankly exits were a problem for me till jump 15. I did have a bad habit of putting my hands down to catch my fall.

The only thing you have to ask yourself is, whether or not it is fun for you. Doesnt matter if you do nothing but tandems for ever or if you have to do some extra AFF jumps. If it is fun stick with it.

I passed all my AFF jumps but failed a coach jump which isnt really a set back but definitely a blow to the ego i know what you mean. If you stick with it and have the will you can find a way.

I still practice my moves at home and day dream my dive flows at work.

[bjelder 0]

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I'm a teacher and pretty used to being right most of the time. I've just hd to come to accept the fact that it's a whole new world and it's going to take me some time to get where I want to be.

Haha! I certainly feel you there!! Its been so long since I've been a student at something aviation related!

Thanks for all the quick replies- I'll be sure to practice the jump flows on the floor.

Just watching some AFF videos on youtube of unstable exits and stuff just blow my mind, when they start spinning uncontrollably. Almost seems impossible to make a stable dive! Argh!

I definitely want to keep at it.. although my tandem jump was a lot more fun. Ah well, I'm sure it'll pay off in the long run. Thanks again!

[grannyinthesky 0]

Looking at what can go awry on an AFF junp hasn't been my cup of tea, so to speak. Talk to your instructors about things you've seen so that you'll know how to fix those problems before they get you spooked. By the way, when I'm on the floor my instructor has me put my feet on the arms of a desk type chair that will swivel. It helps me to keep my feet level and under my control. My dogs have found the on the floor practice great fun. If I'm lucky, they tire of the game after a few minutes and I can get on with my practice.

It did seem to me that the tandem was more fun in some ways, Less stress to be sure. But, I like the AFF jumps better. They are more satisfying and when I manage to do something right, it sure feels good. I've only got 8 jumps including my tandem, but I've had some interesting times already and i'm sure there are more to come.

"safety first... and What the hell.....
safety second, Too!!! " ~~jmy

POPS #10490

[MomDaBomb 0]

Do you live near a tunnel? I'm a slow learner so I can't imagine going through AFF without it. I started in the tunnel a month before my 1st jump. I don't care how long it takes me to finish AFF because the best part of reaching a goal is the journey it took to get there.

[ladydyver 0]

You will find that sometimes you struggle with a skill set or task and other times you won't. I got through AFF quickly and got the A and then decided I liked backsliding - took me 30 jumps to break that little habit....then it was landings, which I am just starting to figure out. Hang in there and remember you are doing this because it is FUN. If you get frustrated it will take all of the fun out of it. Skydiving can be difficult, it is a learning process -embrace it fully - the good and the bad

DPH # 2
"I am not sure what you are suppose to do with that, but I don't think it is suppose to flop around like that." ~Skootz~
I have a strong regard for the rules.......doc!

[livenletfly 0]

dude, 1st off dont be hard on yourself!!! it will ONLY make things much worse. i am an affI and really enjoy working with the hard cases. you dont sound like one to me.
ok, lets put this perspective.
youve had a whole 3 exits off an aircraft, screwed some up. i know jumpers with a 100 jumps that still dip a shoulder and end up flipping around. it will come when you can relax enough to feel whats going on in the air. so dude, CHILL!!! its all good!
i was a horrible student!!! repeats galore, ext... heres a lil fact for you. how you are as a student has absolutly nothing to do with what kind of skydiver you can and will be if your determined!!!
i know world class freeflyers and canopy pilots that rode the plane down a dozen times, froze up ,went fetal, repeated every level at least once. but they STUck with it and one day they just relaxed and it all starts to make sense. your body will start doing shit in the air your not even aware of that corrects things like funnled exits, ext....
i repeat,
this will not determine how you will be as a lisc skydiver.
all these jumps will mean are what kind of student you were. period.
and ya know what the shittyest students make some of the best damn affI i know of because we know how to get through to you!!!
your doing exactly how your suppose to be doing. your learning curve is uniqluely yours and you can not change that, you can only accept it, relax and enjoy the jump as much as possible and things will; get better. i promise.
dont fucking quit!!!
now get out there and make another jump!!!
pm me if you need to talk vent scream laugh cry whatever. but you better help some newbies out when your a shit hot skydiver. dont forget what it was like,

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[Baksteen 84]

Quote

[..]
So the future is looking sorta grim for me, and I don't know if this is for me! I really want to persue this, but so far its just been a shot to the ego.
[..]
I fly 6 days a week as a flight instructor and am a full time student so Sundays are my only free day, so the jumps have sadly been few and far between.
[..]
Any words of inspiration for a struggling student?

I'm not an instructor, etc. so just look and see what's useful to you.

First off, don't forget to have fun!
I see many other newbies (still counting myself as one) being very competitive, there seems to be a race to get that Holy Grail of A-licences as soon as possible and in the minimum amount of jumps necessary, which is not always the same thing.
Why?
Relax, take it easy and focus solely on your own progression.
Ladydiver has it right - every student encounters some bottleneck in their jumping career. For me it was flying the landing pattern, I landed out a lot.
However, the landings in themselves were mostly sweet and soft. I also breezed easily through the obligatory canopy control exercises.
Then, as I progressed through my task list I couldn't seem to do any kind of tracking at all. Took me at least fifteen jumps to get it sorted.
So what?
Even if you fail a task, it doesn't mean you've failed the jump itself. Focus on the positive stuff. Did you enjoy jumping? Did you have a sweet canopy ride? Which parts od the freefall did go right? Did you have altitude awareness? How was your landing pattern? etc.

As to not being able to jump often, well there's nothing you can do about that for now or so it seems.
Try to make the most of the "nice enough weather"-Sundays that you get, make more than one jump on such a day if you can. That way the comments of your instructors are still fresh in your memory.
Also, your instructors will brief your jumps thoroughly with you, but you should still ask questions. If you feel uncomfortable about the exit, ask them if you could spend some extra time rehearsing the exit at the mockup. It would be a very poor instructor indeed that doesn't want to help you with such things, but if you don't tell them what's on your mind they cannot help you.

Good luck

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

I am a newbie and my AFF was not so long ago. These things helped me:

Certianly I found practice on the floor helpful.

However I found visualization very helpful. I would visualize the entire jump from boarding the aircraft through landing. If I had trouble seeing a specific part correctly, I would re-visualize that part a few times until I could see the entire jump perfectly.

Lastly, the most important thing of all was the very hardest. That which seems the most absurd, was the essence of the task. Unfortunatly I didn't even begin to get this until after AFF. This key is to RELAX.. I thought folks were nuts when they said that to me.... "Don't they understand that we are jumping out of an airplane? Don't they understand these AFF jumps are frigging expensive? I have to get this right!" Later I learned that they were exactly right. The more I relax, the better I fly. The more I relax, the more fun I have. I eventually found that I could include feeling relaxed in my visualizations for jumps... On the ground I would visualize breathing, smiling and relaxing before boarding, several times in the plane, before exit, after exit, and in FF. Of course, During the jump I would be sure to breathe, smile, and relax at each of those times.

I have found that the way for me to arch more is to relax more. I found the term "arch hard" to be unhelpful. "Arch Hard" meant "work Hard". Working hard meant muscular tension, which goofs everything up. When I want to arch more I relax more. I don't become a floppy rag doll... I simply relax my back and my belly and allow myself to ooze into a deeper arch. (I am a 51 year old guy... so my flexibility ain't what it used to be so I have to think about arching.)

Hang in there... it definitely gets better. Good Luck

Blue Skies

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[michalm21 0]

Just smile, relax and keep going.
Steen and Nikki are awesome

[drdive 0]

Like they said - hang in there, don't quit. I have always been a perfectionist and an achiever. God, AFF drove me crazy, repeated levels, felt like a dipshit constantly, scared to death on the way up, frustrated frustrated frustrated. Finally, it started to click. Still learning every jump, still do my share of screwing up, but it gets better and better and better. I'm so glad I hung in there and got over the hump. In a couple of years, you will be coaching the new jumpers, mentoring then, and your perspective as a frustrated student will help them get through their tough times. Hang in there.

Doc

"We saved your gear. Now you can sell it when you get out of the hospital and upsize!!" "K-Dub"

"

[peregrinerose 0]

Patience young grasshopper You didn't read War and Peace 3 days after you learned the alphabet.... skydiving is no different. You have 3 jumps, you're not supposed to be some kind of skygod yet! That's the whole point of AFF... to work on your weak points and build on your strengths in order to make you a skydiver capable of saving your own life in freefall and have consistent stability in free fall.

Ask anyone on here with thousands of jumps... every last one of them has SOMETHING that they are still working on, something about their flying they still aren't happy with, some just out of reach goal that they are trying to achieve. That's the nature of the sport... there's always something new to learn, some aspect to focus on.

You will never be the skydiver you want to be, neither will I, but that's the best part of the sport... that constant learning and working and playing.

Relax, have fun with the learning process, learn that it's ok to not be perfect... none of us are

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[grannyinthesky 0]

There is so much great stuff being posted that I'm not even sure to reply to. I've got a pretty good idea how the OP is feeling. It really makes me feel like less of a screw-up to read what everyone has to say. On my last jump, I lost the DZ!!! I'd never approached it from the north and it looked so different I just didn't recognize it. Somewhere around 2000 ft, I realized I better pick out a place to land because I wasn't going to be landing at the dz. Well, I spotted a great big field....no obstacles in sight and landed there. It was a well-plowed really, really muddy field, but I landed fairly well. It's about impossible to PLF however when you have planted your feet 3 or 4 inches deep in really sticky mud. That landing made for some sore muscles and a bit of teasing at Safety Day Saturday. It seems that I have now managed to land out in two different counties. I do frustrate myself greatly and it's sure nice to know that I'm not the only one.

"safety first... and What the hell.....
safety second, Too!!! " ~~jmy

POPS #10490

[superwoman8433 0]

Did you do your 1st AFF jump last weekend?? If you did, I was the one sitting next to you on the skyvan. All I can say is what everyone else has said.

Hang in there!! It took me 3 months to get through AFF. I got sick for my first 20 or so jumps because I would overthink EVERYTHING. Remember you are doing this because its fun. I was still in a slow spin on my 4th jump and repeated I don't know how many levels. But I love the sport now!!!

A tunnel is really a good idea, but I wouldn't be to hard on yourself. You have only had 3 jumps. IMO you are being over critical of yourself. Some people it takes a little longer to grasp everything, but know that you will grasp it. Work on your arch while your watching tv. Put your feet up on the couch and a pillow under your pelvis and by just doing this, it creates muscle memory.

Trust me.....you will get the hang of it and will love it, hang in there!!!!!!!!

[Programmer 0]

What do you tell flight students who don't nail the landing after three tries?

[NewGuy2005 51]

I don't know. What do you tell them?

[Snowflake 0]

I wouldn't sweat it, easier for me to say then for you to do, but really don't sweat it. I've seen video of students spinning uncontrollably and they made it through.

I would suggest getting video, It will help with any discrepancies between what you think your doing and what your actually doing.

AFF is about teaching basic survival skills. Your instructors are not concerned with your "form". They are very concerned about you maintaining AA, being able to get on your belly and stable, and landing safely. You learn how to fly after AFF

You have more time then you realize in a skydive. Wait till your fist solo then you'll see. You can screw the pooch all the way down the hill and still have no problem finishing the objectives of the dive. As long as you forget screwing the pooch on the hill and concentrate on the whats in front of you. I swam hard on all my student and unconnected exits till around #30 and maybe a few more till around 100, but as long as I kept my mind focused(stop take a breath move on, it really only takes about a second to do) it was not much of a problem. On the other hand if I got wrapped up in an error I made. I would get into a negative feedback loop. 1. Dwell on mistake. 2. make worse mistake, while dwelling on 1st mistake etc, etc.

Just try to think back when you first started flying. I'm sure it seemed like there was so much to do, but after you made it muscle memory through repetition. You probably didn't have to think about a lot of things that you did when you first started. Same deal!!

Like someone said you have to relax to arch. Practice in the shower. You'll learn to feel what muscles to use. Your probably poking out your upper torso on exit, thus ending up "face down". It's in the hips and small of the back not the upper torso.

[Programmer 0]

That's not the lead-in to a joke. bjelder flies 6 days a week as a flight instructor. What would he say to a student pilot who has made 3 landings and hasn't got it perfect yet? I'm a little surprised that he asked about this, because he already knows the answer.
Now if I had said "a blond and a rabbi walk into a bar ....", that would have been the start of a joke.

[bjelder 0]

Quote

That's not the lead-in to a joke. bjelder flies 6 days a week as a flight instructor. What would he say to a student pilot who has made 3 landings and hasn't got it perfect yet? I'm a little surprised that he asked about this, because he already knows the answer.
Now if I had said "a blond and a rabbi walk into a bar ....", that would have been the start of a joke.

Haha, very true.

However, I'm not really wanting perfection out of my jumps, thats clearly unrealistic. I guess I was just surprised that I was flat-out failing level 1!

Thanks for all the generous and kind replies in this thread, it has definitely kept my chin up. Thanks a bunch!

[heavydude 0]

It gets easier w/ more jumps ! I redid several of my levels due to task failures but I think it really helped when my attitude changed from gotta pass this level to try my best & if it doesnt work at least I had another safe jump w/ good landing. Being a pilot also my canopy work was always good, I could always fly a good pattern, however 1st 5 seconds of freefall were tough, you gotta think of yourself as a airplane in slow flight for 1st 5 seconds or so of free-fall, minimum controlled movements/good arch. Later in the Free-fall w/ velocity you get airflow and woo-hoo the control surfaces work.
Tunnel Time was a lifesaver for me and I highly reccomend it, it gives you confidence in your body piloting and reinforces muscle memory of good position. 30 mimutes in tunnel and your problems are over ! More jumps do same thing but you have other stuff to worry about, its no stress in tunnel.

[ladydyver 0]

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Like they said - hang in there, don't quit. I have always been a perfectionist and an achiever. God, AFF drove me crazy, repeated levels, felt like a dipshit constantly, scared to death on the way up, frustrated frustrated frustrated. Finally, it started to click. Still learning every jump, still do my share of screwing up, but it gets better and better and better. I'm so glad I hung in there and got over the hump. In a couple of years, you will be coaching the new jumpers, mentoring then, and your perspective as a frustrated student will help them get through their tough times. Hang in there.


Doc

Quote

I can say that he is being totally honest about AFF driving him crazy...he would come home and vent; the fun now is that we get to pick on each other when we do something that blows the formation - and one of us is always doing something.....and if that goes well then I usually have a late flare or something. My point is that there is always something to work on, something that could be done better

DPH # 2
"I am not sure what you are suppose to do with that, but I don't think it is suppose to flop around like that." ~Skootz~
I have a strong regard for the rules.......doc!

[ladydyver 0]

Quote

There is so much great stuff being posted that I'm not even sure to reply to. I've got a pretty good idea how the OP is feeling. It really makes me feel like less of a screw-up to read what everyone has to say. On my last jump, I lost the DZ!!! I'd never approached it from the north and it looked so different I just didn't recognize it. Somewhere around 2000 ft, I realized I better pick out a place to land because I wasn't going to be landing at the dz. Well, I spotted a great big field....no obstacles in sight and landed there. It was a well-plowed really, really muddy field, but I landed fairly well. It's about impossible to PLF however when you have planted your feet 3 or 4 inches deep in really sticky mud. That landing made for some sore muscles and a bit of teasing at Safety Day Saturday. It seems that I have now managed to land out in two different counties. I do frustrate myself greatly and it's sure nice to know that I'm not the only one.

Yes granny but you have also gone back and remedied the situation on how to see the landing area from a different angle.. Next time you will be ready for that scenario...or at least more ready. Peregrine is right, there will always be something to work on - well, for most of us anyway

DPH # 2
"I am not sure what you are suppose to do with that, but I don't think it is suppose to flop around like that." ~Skootz~
I have a strong regard for the rules.......doc!

[icevideot 0]

Are you really a flight instructor?

If I were your flight student and being this hard on myself would that make it easier or more difficult to teach me to fly?

First I would like to say that many people in your thread have given good advice. I believe some of it is going into too much detail and should be left to your instructors. Every solution does not apply to every student and they will overwhelm you if you allow it.

Two things come to mind I am sure your instructors will agree with for any student and you probably would agree for flight instruction as well.
First you need to relax and breath. How much more difficult is it to fly if you are white knuckled on the yoke?
Second you need to stop trying to evaluate your own performance. If you perceive a screw up during a dive flow it can take so much of your attention that you can't complete the next step resulting in a snowball effect. Whatever happens you need to proceed with conviction.

If you are altitude aware and alert and responsive there is nothing your instructors can't help you with. That being said, if you are so concerned about stability on exit that you get all stiff and spend half the skydive "potato chipping" you will likely find the dive to be over before accomplish much.

We as instructors do not expect or look for perfection. Some of the most natural students make me nervous because sooner or later they will find themselves in a stressful situation and if it doesn't happen before they finish their student dives they may have to deal with it alone. Think of a toddler learning to walk who never lost his balance. Sooner or later he is going to fall. All that early practice catching hi balance can really soften the blow.

I often tell students who are a little too tense that a requirement for advancement is to smile at least once every jump. I make sure I am smiling from the door to opening and it really does help you relax so you can fly.

Don't give up and stop over critiquing your progress. Also limit the advice you take right now to the advice that you get from instructors. Sutdent procedures are simplified for a very good reason.

Blue skies and enjoy the ride.

Robin Kellam
AFF-I 08

"... this ain't a Nerf world."

[livenletfly 0]

good advice! i like that making the student smile once per skydive. im gonna use that one on my students,
thanks

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