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alexpereira

Skyhook malfunction

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Hi everyone,

I've experience today a malfunction on my skyhook:

I had a severe line twist on my VX-94, spinning on my back decide to chop it, as I cut it away could see the freebag going away as it suppose to happen as I had my skyhook on, didn't even bother to pull my reserve handle, then I've notice a quite slow opening of the reserve compared with the previous skyhook experience on a Sigma. I end up on a couple of line twist on my reserve. Analyzing the footage later, frame by frame, I've notice that the skyhook only worked as a normal RSL, it broke free of the freebag just after deployment, what probably cause the slow opening I've felt before and the reserve line twist as the lines stretch quite slowly, or slower that it would, while I was still falling on my back/spinning from the disconnection.

Does any one had similar experience before?

I've assembled the rig myself, brand new, couple of month ago. I got to admit that was my firs skyhook pack job, but all by the book, and absolutely sure that I've attached the lanyard to the hook and sealed. Anything that I could have done wrong that can cause that?

Appreciate any help.

Alex

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Hi everyone,

I've experience today a malfunction on my skyhook:

I had a severe line twist on my VX-94, spinning on my back decide to chop it, as I cut it away could see the freebag going away as it suppose to happen as I had my skyhook on, didn't even bother to pull my reserve handle, then I've notice a quite slow opening of the reserve compared with the previous skyhook experience on a Sigma. I end up on a couple of line twist on my reserve. Analyzing the footage later, frame by frame, I've notice that the skyhook only worked as a normal RSL, it broke free of the freebag just after deployment, what probably cause the slow opening I've felt before and the reserve line twist as the lines stretch quite slowly, or slower that it would, while I was still falling on my back/spinning from the disconnection.

Does any one had similar experience before?

I've assembled the rig myself, brand new, couple of month ago. I got to admit that was my firs skyhook pack job, but all by the book, and absolutely sure that I've attached the lanyard to the hook and sealed. Anything that I could have done wrong that can cause that?

Appreciate any help.

Alex



Why didn't you pull your reserve????
Look out for the freefly team, Smelly Peppers. Once we get a couple years more experience we will be a force to be reckoned with in the near future! BLUES!

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Why didn't you pull your reserve????


That and the fact "it functioned as advertised". Skyhook _can_ pull your reserve out from freebag faster and that's about it. Other than that it's just a glorified RSL.
I understand the need for conformity. Without a concise set of rules to follow we would probably all have to resort to common sense. -David Thorne

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it broke free of the freebag just after deployment,



what was the reserve pilot chute doing at the time?

from my understanding of the skyhook design(which is basic) if the pilot chute creates more drag then the main at any time during the deployment then the skyhook will disconnect from the reserve bridal

was the reserve pilot chute inflated or doing anything funky out to one side?

i dont have enough experience to know either way im just curious

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Do your ep's, always. Never assume the RSL, or skyhook will work. Even if it DOES work, continue with your ep's pull the handles anyway.

Cutting away and not pulling the reserve handle is, imo, unacceptable.

Ian


I understand that. Can't hurt to pull the handle, and might initiate the reserve deployment sequence. My question was what actual difference pulling the handle would have if the freebag is already out.
I wish Google Maps had an "Avoid Ghetto" routing option.

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Sounds like it worked. One should never assume the Skyhook will be the device pulling the freebag off the reserve, just as one should never assume that the RSL will pull the pin. They are all backups and the skydive and deployments should be planned accordingly.

In 14 Skyhook equipped rides, I've had the Skyhook do the job of deploying the reserve 12 times.
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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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My question was what actual difference pulling the handle would have if the freebag is already out.



Muscle memory. From a deployment point of view, it makes no difference at that point. Really just fostering a good habit - that extra second or two it *could* take to realize your reserve isn't deploying could be the difference in life or death.

Ian
Performance Designs Factory Team

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hi,
first of all i would advise that you always do the correct emergency procedures,it might stop you having a nasty suprise one day.
as for the skyhook,it is pretty easy to assemble,did you put the seal thread on it as per instructions?
but more than likely you did pack it correctly.remember the sky hook is designed t odisconnet and let the RPC do its job.that can happen if you an unsymetrical opening,like on your back for example.the reserve riser could be flapping around your back and so the skyhook can and should disconnect at this stage,as the RPC would be doing its job then.
so i do not think that you had a skyhook mal,i think it did excatly what it was supposed to do.as for the slower reserve opening and line twist,i think that came from being on your back,but what else can you do about that? and i think you compared this opening to the last with skyhook.i would think that you had a reserve inflating over your head in less than 2 sec,which is normal.instead of the .5sec with a skyhook.
i had this happen to me on a tandem and i think i have the same footage as you.

rodger

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In 14 Skyhook equipped rides, I've had the Skyhook do the job of deploying the reserve 12 times.



OK, this is some actual, useful information amidst the usual blather about, "dude, don't you know things don't always work perfectly in skydiving".

So, to clarify, for you there has been a small percentage of the time where the reserve pilot chute seems to beat the Skyhook RSL in pulling out the freebag.

How do you tell? Is it just from looking up and seeing or videoing what is happening? Things happen fast. If the freebag is later found separated from the main, that could just mean they pulled apart after being cut away, so that won't prove the pilot chute beat the Skyhook.

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OK, this is some actual, useful information amidst the usual blather about, "dude, don't you know things don't always work perfectly in skydiving".



Feel free to personally disregard the 'usual blather'. For others it's useful, and good, information to relay.
Performance Designs Factory Team

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To the OP It was not a malfunction. Malfunction will be if you had a total and the lanyard did not disconnect from the skyhook.
I’m going to shear my thoughts, why Skyhook did not work as you expected it.
Before I start, I have to tell that this is NOT a post against Skyhook or Vector.
During the last few years I have witnessed 2 cases myself and have seen 4 videos when Skyhook worked as a normal RSL. It is not a big deal, but it got me thinking why is that. I discovered that in those 6 cases, the rigs were with the MAGNETIC riser covers. Now, what I tend to believe is that there’s connection between Skyhook, magnets and Skyhook not working as a MARD. Why not…well the magnetic riser covers tend to get closed when the risers are already out. The yoke design on V3 with riser covers closed, makes it more difficult for the free bag to leave the rig. I did some ground tests and I have to tell you that you need twice as much pull force on the bridle to get the freebag out when the riser covers are still closed.. And this is when pulling on angle 30 degree or less direction towards the yoke . The things are getting worse if you have the maximum size reserve for the rig, or bad fabric distribution during the packing. I think that because of the higher pull force that you need to get the freebag out, the reserve PC has time to take over and finish the deployment.
This is what I think about: “why sometimes Skyhook doesn’t work as a MARD”. They are some great riggers and a gear designers in this forum and I would appreciate any input about the subject.
Blue skies
"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen

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Thanks everyone by the comments, Im quite happy with my decision to don't pull the reserve handle, I didn't assume that skyhook deploy my reserve, I could see it did it! I would go for the reserve handle after get stable facing the ground... My point is: skyhook didn't perform as advertised, it only worked as normal RSL what I wouldn't use anyway.. did someone experience that?

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that is a very interesting idea and thought with the riser covers.i will say the footage i have on the 2 incidents did not have magnetic riser covers,and in both cases the tandem master where spun on there back.
still very interesting scenario though.
rodger



I think that here the key will be the staging loop + heavy reserve+ really bad angle of pulling. The relative wind during the spining mal is high,so the RPC takes over easier. Just my thoughts .

Blue skies
"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen

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My question was what actual difference pulling the handle would have if the freebag is already out.



Muscle memory. From a deployment point of view, it makes no difference at that point. Really just fostering a good habit - that extra second or two it *could* take to realize your reserve isn't deploying could be the difference in life or death.

Ian


That makes perfect sense.
I wish Google Maps had an "Avoid Ghetto" routing option.

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I understand that. Can't hurt to pull the handle, and might initiate the reserve deployment sequence. My question was what actual difference pulling the handle would have if the freebag is already out.




it wouldn't make a difference but you should always follow with your procedure
Look out for the freefly team, Smelly Peppers. Once we get a couple years more experience we will be a force to be reckoned with in the near future! BLUES!

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It's from the visual and feel of the deployment. On a skyhook deployment on a tandem (which these all were) I never leave the vertical, and the snivel period is non existent.

On the ones where it did not operate as expected, it did pull the pin but the skyhook was disengaged from the bridle after that.
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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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I would go for the reserve handle after get stable facing the ground...



And that's the last thought that has gone through the mind of half a dozen people a year for the last 30 years.
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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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My point is: skyhook didn't perform as advertised, it only worked as normal RSL what I wouldn't use anyway.. did someone experience that?



See, that's the only problem with the Skyhook, the way it is advertised. "You can chop on 100 ft AGL and have a fully open reserve, ...it always work,except when you have a total....,you never gonna lose you freebag because it stays with the main....etc. And then,something happens and Skyhook doesn't work as it's advertised,and the first thing the jumper is saying :"the Skyhook is shit"

I've had a chat with a jumper with about 700 jumps. He was jumping with camera and He had a Skyhook. I asked him: Why are you jumping with a RSL and a camera and he said:"This is not a RSL,this is a Skyhook". I asked him what is the difference and he told me:" With the normal RSL you can have an entanglement with the reserve bridle or lines and with the Skyhook,this can't happen." So I asked, But what if on some reason the Skyhook doesn't work as a MARD and only as a RSL....??? He said:" THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE...if you have something out,the Skyhook will extract the reserve." He was so sure about that because he has seen the Skyhooh promo video. Cool a?!

Blue skies
"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen

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Tell 'em to RTFM. That's why it was written.

There is no skydiving gizmo to rule them all, and it always comes down to you not fucking up. Regardles of AAD, RSL, Skyhook or any other "life-saver" it still up to you to get down to earth alive and well.
I understand the need for conformity. Without a concise set of rules to follow we would probably all have to resort to common sense. -David Thorne

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I've had a chat with a jumper with about 700 jumps. He was jumping with camera and He had a Skyhook. I asked him: Why are you jumping with a RSL and a camera and he said:"This is not a RSL,this is a Skyhook". I asked him what is the difference and he told me:" With the normal RSL you can have an entanglement with the reserve bridle or lines and with the Skyhook,this can't happen."



In my opinion, that person should not be jumping with a camera if he misunderstands his gear and his emergency procedures as poorly as that. The RSL/camera debate has raged for a long time, but at the VERY least your pal should know that putting a camera helmet on means you must adjust your EPs in the case of certain malfunctions. Simple example: steering line tangle on camera resulting in spinning twists... must cut away helmet first or risk almost having your neck broken.

Skyhook or no, your guy is a danger to himself.

Having said that, I love my Skyhook.
Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography

Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

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