this end up?

[spootch 0]

I have a jav container with "dynamic corners" or wing suit mod. If i pack the d-bag with the grommet to the reserve, the line / stows are exposed through the corners. To stop this I stack the bag on the lines with the grommet to the closing pin. This causes the container to "bulge" at the bottom moving the container/b.o.c. away from my back as the bag is taller than it is thicker. Question is why can we not pack the bag with the grommet to the b.o.c? What are the issues that arise from this method?

[hackish 8]

Good question... I'm not too terribly fond of the idea of having the lines pass over the stows to the risers but the chances of this causing a problem are probably related to how neat you are.

Another possible issue could be the locking stows tagging the reserve on opening and causing an out of sequence deployment.

-Michael

[zxcvb 0]

There is also the very real possibility of line catching on the closing loop tab, causing a horseshoe.

[spootch 0]

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Another possible issue could be the locking stows tagging the reserve on opening and causing an out of sequence deployment.

-Michael

I wondered about that too, or the possibility of the lines getting pushed by the closing loop tab as it rotates up on deployment. And yes I could see a potential for the loop to possibly horseshoe. I wonder if giving the bag a half turn before packing the chute into it would help?

[davelepka 4]

What size canopy are you using? Is it the correct size for the container?

I find it hard to believe that Sunpath would build a rig that couldn't be securely closed. If you were trying the stuff too much canopy into the container, I could see the corners hanging out a little.

One option would be to have a small extension flap sewn onto each side of the bottom flap. When packing, you would place this flap against the side of your bag before pulling the side flaps over. The tension from the side flaps would hold it in place, and once the pin is pulled, the flaps would blow harmlessly in the wind.

Racer reserve containers use a similar arrangement on the bottom flap. It a little extension that closes up the corners all nice and neat. You use a packing paddle to tuck them in after the reserve is closed, but that's because it already takes 5 hands to close a Racer resrerve, and you could never do it during the closing process. On the main container of your Jav, it would be much simpler.

[spootch 0]

sabre 2 170 it should be the right size for the container. Unless the bottom flap was not cut right for the container. You can see the tape at the bottom of the container does not go under the side flaps and that "hole" it leaves exposes the bag

[AndyMan 7]

I would, in the following order:

1) Contact Sunpath, and ask their advice.
2) Have your rigger sew flaps on the inside of the packing tray to cover the holes.
3) Don't invent new packing methods. Doing so would make you a test pilot. Don't be a test pilot.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[davelepka 4]

You didn't say what size Jav it was, just that you have a 170 in there. Judging by the pic, it looks to be a tight fit, and I have a feeling that you have to stick to the smaller end of what canopies will fit a certain size container with cut corners.

Another thing you could check, and this is a long shot, but make sure you're using the correct D-bag for the container. I'm sure you're using the one that you got with it, but get the specs from Sunpath, and measure your bag just to be sure.

I used to pack student Racers that had unconstructed corners like that, and canopy size, and how you shaped the canopy when you folded it into the D-bag made a huge difference. Generally flatter and wider was bettter. Maybe experiment with some of that.

Call Sunpath first thing in the morning, and have the rig size and serial number and the canopy model and size handy when you do. Ask them what they think.

[mjosparky 3]

I can't put my finger on it but the tuck flap circled in red doesn’t look right. Also it does look over packed. The container should be marked as a J3K or JIKL.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[spootch 0]

yup it' a J3K . Sent the serial# and picture off to sunpath to get the skinny on it and it all checks out. They recomend running a tighter closing loop and tucking the tabs down further, however I still cant get the "holes" to go away.

I did however find out that the rigs serial # falls into the batch that requires hip ring inspection.

[JerryBaumchen 1,050]

Hi spootch,

Quote

I did however find out that the rigs serial # falls into the batch that requires hip ring inspection.

If you are going to be sending the rig back to the factory then you might consider having them sew these corners back up.

Just a thought . . .

JerryBaumchen

[hackish 8]

My Jav looked like that when I was stuffing a Westway 200 into it (borrowed canopy). I found adjusting the bulk a little helped. I did this by widening the cone and shortening the s-folds. In my case it's just because the container was designed for a 170.

-Michael

[jcbfly 1]

I have 400+ jumps a J1K w/ dynamic corners. I always pack "grommet to pin". I have consistently good deployments, including almost 200 wingsuit deployments. I showed my rig to a Sun Path Rigger over a year ago when I was at Z-Hills and he said it was OK to pack "grommet to pin" with the dynamic corners.

I've experimented with "grommet to B.O.C." without ill effects, but I can see some snag potential with that method, and it didn't improve the quality of my deployments, so I went back to "grommet to pin".

[swoopfly 5]

i got all the answers to your problem........buy a mirage!!!
boy do i love my mirage (g4), its threads like this that confirm to me everyday that i made the right choice in a container.

[kingbunky 3]

i love my infinity too, but that doesn't answer the op's question does it?

"Hang on a sec, the young'uns are throwin' beer cans at a golf cart."
MB4252 TDS699
killing threads since 2001

[swoopfly 5]

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i love my infinity too, but that doesn't answer the op's question does it?

dosent answer the question, but a mirage would solve his problem!

[yoink 321]

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Quote

i love my infinity too, but that doesn't answer the op's question does it?

dosent answer the question, but a mirage would solve his problem!

As would buying a Racer, Voodoo, Teardrop or even probably a new Jav.

Not particularly useful advice, however.

[spootch 0]

I actually own a Mirage, and I prefer my wings container for closing. It has all the closing features I like from both the Jav and Mirage

[spootch 0]

Well I tried packing the thing 7 ways to sunday last weekend and the "holes" will not disapear, looks like it's going back to Sun Path for the winter. Does anyone have pictures of the rig "closed" properly?

[spootch 0]

Quote

I find it hard to believe that Sunpath would build a rig that couldn't be securely closed. If you were trying the stuff too much canopy into the container, I could see the corners hanging out a little.

UPDATE
Well I got the rig back from Sunpath and guess what, everything is of the correct size. The rig still has gapping holes on the sides. In communicating with Sunpath they as much as said there is no solution to fix the problem. The only advice Aggie could come up with was to turn the ends of the line stows away from the holes and use the "pinch" of the bag/container to hold them there.

I discussed with Riggerrob about sewing "flaps" on the container to cover the holes, to which he replied "I can only duplicate a close copy of what the manufacturer has made". Long story short, if it wasn't made by Sunpath it's not getting sewn in. And I agree. On that note, Sandy Reed has seen the problem and claims to have the only sure fire way to fix the problem entirely.....

Sorry Sunpath your, It is what it is, live with it attitude sucks. Your dynamic corners suck, and your customer service is starting to resemble your corners. You sold me your last container, and that sucks

[pchapman 262]

There may be other rigging options. Some riggers may not mind rigging something up, especially if they are in Canada. It depends on their personal point of view on modifications to an approved configuration. I've seen flap redesigns, pillows, tuck tabs in place of velcro, ripcord reroutings, moved chest straps, and more.

[riggerrob 558]

Sorry,

But CSPA Rigger Bs are expected to work to the same standards as FAA Master Riggers.

The only reason Transport Canada does not keep a close eye on us is that we keep the fatality rate low.

For example, I recently saw a Talon 1 with aftermarket tuck tabs on the main riser covers. Since they did not vaguely resemble the factory pattern, I refused to sign the reserve repack.
Rest assured that I know what Talon 1 factory pattern riser covers look like after sewing a few hundred of them when I worked at Rigging Innovations.

[Beatnik 2]

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But CSPA Rigger Bs are expected to work to the same standards as FAA Master Riggers.

For example, I recently saw a Talon 1 with aftermarket tuck tabs on the main riser covers. Since they did not vaguely resemble the factory pattern, I refused to sign the reserve repack.

While I agree with you the answer is actually a yes and no. There is nothing actually stating the standards of a Rigger B, since there is no regulations on it. Just like there is nothing about emergency parachute systems either. One and maybe most would expect that that the a Rigger B and Master Rigger work to the same standards but there is nothing saying you have to or enforcing it.

As to the example you gave, I could say the main container system isn't TSO'd so you can do what you want to it. But as a rigger I could also say I refuse to repack any gear with certain AADs, reserves, etc. I am not saying what you did wasn't right, you could look at it numerous ways in Canada cause we do have a lot less restrictions than those to the south of us.

[spootch 0]

Quote

Quote

But CSPA Rigger Bs are expected to work to the same standards as FAA Master Riggers.

For example, I recently saw a Talon 1 with aftermarket tuck tabs on the main riser covers. Since they did not vaguely resemble the factory pattern, I refused to sign the reserve repack.

Quote

While I agree with you the answer is actually a yes and no. There is nothing actually stating the standards of a Rigger B, since there is no regulations on it. Just like there is nothing about emergency parachute systems either. One and maybe most would expect that that the a Rigger B and Master Rigger work to the same standards but there is nothing saying you have to or enforcing it.

Splitting hairs here I think.

Quote

As to the example you gave, I could say the main container system isn't TSO'd so you can do what you want to it. But as a rigger I could also say I refuse to repack any gear with certain AADs, reserves, etc. I am not saying what you did wasn't right, you could look at it numerous ways in Canada cause we do have a lot less restrictions than those to the south of us.

I am curious to know what you would do, or other rigger Bs for that matter, if Johnny Jumper drops his rig off for a repack and you notice extra flaps sewn in or material missing that is obviously not a mfr sanctioned repair?

[Beatnik 2]

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I am curious to know what you would do, or other rigger Bs for that matter, if Johnny Jumper drops his rig off for a repack and you notice extra flaps sewn in or material missing that is obviously not a mfr sanctioned repair?

I can't speak for other people but it really depends on what is going on with the rig. I can't really give you a straight answer to the question. My answer to the question I would say almost all the time would be to no to pack it or to repair it first before a repack. But it really depends on what the situation really is.

Most of the time I will direct people elsewhere for stuff like this. I have so much work with gear restoration and some developmental stuff, I don't have the time for the regular jumper at this time.