How many AFF jumps did it take you???

AFFI · October 7, 2006

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60 AFF jumps???? That's nuts.

why is it nuts?

It takes what it takes.

Can you imagine how well that person must know EPs by now?
Hell, this 60 jump AFF student might make a really good instructor one day!

Talk about preserverance!

-

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

popsjumper · October 7, 2006

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...Talk about preserverance! -

AND determination. WOW

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

flydude · October 7, 2006

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...Talk about preserverance! -

AND determination. WOW

And money

It took me 7 jumps, and after 18 I had my A-licence. 51 and I got B

A skydiver's famous last words:
- Hey! Hold my beer, and watch this...!
- If that guy can do it, so can I...!
- In 9 out of 10 this will work out just fine. Don't worry about it...!

kelpdiver · October 7, 2006

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It took me 7 jumps, and after 18 I had my A-licence.

No, you didn't. 25 jumps is a hard requirement.

And the point of the original posting is not for bragging.

DSE · October 7, 2006

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It took me 7 jumps, and after 18 I had my A-licence.

No, you didn't. 25 jumps is a hard requirement.

And the point of the original posting is not for bragging.

I wondered about that m'self. Even if you had an unethical DZO that would sign off an A at 18 jumps, this would require a dishonest entry of information on the A license application. Unless of course, the A license in question isn't a USPA license but rather another organization outside the US?

flydude · October 7, 2006

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It took me 7 jumps, and after 18 I had my A-licence.

No, you didn't. 25 jumps is a hard requirement.

And the point of the original posting is not for bragging.

I wondered about that m'self. Even if you had an unethical DZO that would sign off an A at 18 jumps, this would require a dishonest entry of information on the A license application. Unless of course, the A license in question isn't a USPA license but rather another organization outside the US?

I'm norwegian... The limit is 18 jumps for A (in total)

And, no. i didn't post to brag. But I got some feeling of "hard to get all AFF jumps on the first try", or something like that. I know I'm not the only one in the world to do that, but if this new student thinks so, I wanted to tell him its possible to do it.

But using 60 AFF jumps - thats...well.. maybe you're not meant to skydive..

A skydiver's famous last words:
- Hey! Hold my beer, and watch this...!
- If that guy can do it, so can I...!
- In 9 out of 10 this will work out just fine. Don't worry about it...!

DSE · October 7, 2006

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And, no. i didn't post to brag. But I got some feeling of "hard to get all AFF jumps on the first try", or something like that. I know I'm not the only one in the world to do that, but if this new student thinks so, I wanted to tell him its possible to do it.

But using 60 AFF jumps - thats...well.. maybe you're not meant to skydive..

And maybe it doesn't mean that. Maybe it means a lot of things. Not for us to judge, because we're not the ones jumping out of the airplane with the student.

Maybe it will click on the next jump and all the training will come together to turn this person into the next world class skydiver.
Maybe your brag of 7 jumps means you're a hot-shot, and so you'll be in the incidents forum. Or not.
Lots of very dedicated skydivers have taken more than their required 7. I passed everything in less than 7, but the DZO wouldn't sign me off regardless of what my instructors told him. Now I'm a 200 jump wonder and I suck at what I should be good at by now.
Does that mean I should start bowling?

flydude · October 7, 2006

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And, no. i didn't post to brag. But I got some feeling of "hard to get all AFF jumps on the first try", or something like that. I know I'm not the only one in the world to do that, but if this new student thinks so, I wanted to tell him its possible to do it.

But using 60 AFF jumps - thats...well.. maybe you're not meant to skydive..

And maybe it doesn't mean that. Maybe it means a lot of things. Not for us to judge, because we're not the ones jumping out of the airplane. Maybe it will click on the next jump and all the training will come together to turn this person into the next world class skydiver.
Maybe your brag of 7 jumps means you're a hot-shot, and so you'll be in the incidents forum. Or not.
Lots of very dedicated skydivers have taken more than their required 7. I passed everything in less than 7, but the DZO wouldn't sign me off regardless of what my instructors told him. Now I'm a 200 jump wonder and I suck at what I should be good at by now.
Does that mean I should start bowling?

It was never in my intention to brag about getting all AFF jumps at the first try. A lot of people manage that. Thats what I wanted to tell the thread-starter. That it is possible. Some make it in 7 - some don't.

Possibly I didnt make my point in the reply clear enough, and I apologize for that, if thats so.. My bad!

And of course - theres no saying in that if you dont make it in the first 7, youre not going to be good! I guess a lot of professional skydivers today didnt make it in 7. A lot of things can be the reason for failing a level.

A skydiver's famous last words:
- Hey! Hold my beer, and watch this...!
- If that guy can do it, so can I...!
- In 9 out of 10 this will work out just fine. Don't worry about it...!

lisamariewillbe · October 8, 2006

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I passed everything in less than 7, but the DZO wouldn't sign me off regardless of what my instructors told him. Now I'm a 200 jump wonder and I suck at what I should be good at by now.
Does that mean I should start bowling?

That sounds like me , well except Im a 100 jump wonder and the DZ did let me get signed off on level 6. Im surprised I havent been advised to bowl, but well maybe thats because I cant bowl either

Who really cares how many it takes to pass an AFF, as long as the student and instructor are progressing and being as safe as possible? I dont think that determines much in the grand scheme of things. Some of my idols in the sport had a hard time in the beginning.... they can now fly circles around the sun if they wanted.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

AFFI · October 8, 2006

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Does that mean I should start bowling?

Not if it's league night...

dorbie · October 8, 2006

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and on the other side, some are too efficient at passing students through AFF levels.

Explain what too efficient means.

tomvailco · October 9, 2006

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60 AFF jumps???? That's nuts.

why is it nuts?

Uh, because if you still can't show yourself or your instructors that you won't kill yourself in 60 AFF jumps then I don't think skydiving is for you.

Ron · October 9, 2006

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Uh, because if you still can't show yourself or your instructors that you won't kill yourself in 60 AFF jumps then I don't think skydiving is for you

Uh, so where do you call it? 10 jumps? 20? 30? As long as they are not dangerous and the instructor and student wants to keep going...Who are you or I to say they are crazy?

Just because it took 60 jumps to pass all the required TASKS does not mean they were UNSAFE. They just could not peform all the tasks. So, were you the AFF instructor on those jumps? So you know that that person was *dangerous* exactly how?

There is a guy that has posted he took 4 level 4's and 5 level 5's to pass....Should he have been stopped? He is now an AFF I and a 4way jumper.

Another jumper on here took 48 jumps to get off student status, and she became a WORLD RECORD HOLDER. Would you consider her to have been a lost cause and her instructors "nuts".

I know a World Champion RW guy that seemed like they were never gonna get off student status and another that cut away a perfectly good canopy by accident. Should these two WORLD CHAMPIONS have not been allowed to jump?

So, how many tries, in your opinion, should a person get before we ground them forever? And how many student jumps did you make as a Student, and how many Students have you trained?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

kelpdiver · October 10, 2006

there's a big difference between someone with leg awareness issues, and one with altitude awareness issues.

AFFI · October 10, 2006

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there's a big difference between someone with leg awareness issues, and one with altitude awareness issues.

Unless they wear the altimeter on their ankle...

DSE · October 10, 2006

One point that's understandably not mentioned here..
Sometimes students and instructors just don't "click." Maybe the instructor's method just isn't working for the student. Aside from demonstrated technical ability, an AFF I rating doesn't demonstrate personality skills, and it's quite possible the instructor is a tremendously skilled skydiver and a tremendously flawed person.
Recent experiences have shown me that this can easily be the case, having had one instructor that liked to cuss, yell, and belittle, and another that was patient, calm, and methodical. Guess which one I learned more from? Guess which one is the more popular instructor, though?
One is an exceptionally hot-shot sky god, and the other has roughly half the sky god's 3000 jump numbers. Both are very skilled, just that one has a personality that appeals to me and the other doesn't.

Ron · October 11, 2006

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One point that's understandably not mentioned here..Sometimes students and instructors just don't "click."

True, learning requires both the message to be sent and for it to be received and understood. An error on either the sender or the recipient could prevent learning from taking place, or just a different way of explaining is required.

If I have a student that just does not seem to be getting it, I give them to another instructor with a different style, or maybe just different stories that the student might get.

I take any failure by one of my students as a failure on MY part to teach in a way they understood.

Of course just today in my "real life" teaching job I had a student that thought they already "knew" everything they needed to know and argued everything instead of learning anything. The proof was when the tests were turned in and they didn't pass....even then, I take it as a personal failure.

So, either student or instructor could have failed there....Most likely, both.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

yamtx73 · October 11, 2006

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If I have a student that just does not seem to be getting it, I give them to another instructor with a different style, or maybe just different stories that the student might get.

I had an instructor I just couldn't relax with... he's a very good instructor, but for some reason every time I jumped with him I would tense up... eventually I was handed over to another instructor (different style, personality and perspective) and managed to finally pass my AFF. It could be their style, stories or even personality... just because the student doesn't "get it" isn't a reflection of how well the instructor is doing their job, nor is it a reflection of how well the student understands. Today I'd gladly jump with any of the instructors I've had, they certainly showed alot of patience!

The only naturals in this sport shit thru feathers...

tomvailco · October 12, 2006

we're not talking about advanced manuvers here Ron, You're way more exprienced than me so don't take what I say so much to heart! of course I have never trained a student. I'm a student!

I sure as hell hope that someone with that many AFF jumps should eventually learn to be a good skydiver. All I'm saying is that is ALOT of training jumps and in skydiving for the most part you have to be quick in everything, including LEARNING! If I was that slow of a learner I wouldn't even be intrested in the sport! Were you the AFF instructor?? Getting your A and getting of AFF are a little diffrent.
Sorry you don't like my opinion.

NWFlyer · October 12, 2006

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for the most part you have to be quick in everything, including LEARNING

No you don't. You have to grasp the basic stuff that's going to save your life, but no one says you have to learn at a certain pace.

I was damn slow. Not 60 jumps slow, but slow. I'm still slow. There's people with 100 jumps who have better skills than me.

Bottom line is, I DON'T CARE that they're better than me. From day 1, I have progressed in this sport at my own pace, not the pace someone else says I should progress at. I had very patient instructors who were willing to work with me.

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we're not talking about advanced manuvers here

But I do care that someone with five jumps has the audacity to say that AFF is not "advanced maneuvers." To someone who has never skydived before, they can be VERY advanced maneuvers. Some people are naturals, others struggle. They both have just as much right to skydive.

We also don't know the whole story of the 60 AFF person. Maybe he or she does a few jumps, gets frustrated or runs out of money, and quits for a while, then has to come back and start all over again. Or, maybe those 60 jumps have come all in a row.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

jakee · October 12, 2006

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No, you didn't. 25 jumps is a hard requirement.

Lol, there is a wider world out there you know!

Maybe take a look at the DZ's in someones profile before acting Mr Know-It-All next time

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And the point of the original posting is not for bragging.

The question was how many AFF jumps did it take - he answered. Just because he did it very well why does that mean he was bragging?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

tomvailco · October 12, 2006

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we're not talking about advanced manuvers here

But I do care that someone with five jumps has the audacity to say that AFF is not "advanced maneuvers." They both have just as much right to skydive.

yamtx73 · October 12, 2006

The simplest answer... it takes what it takes...

Some may catch on quickly and progress thru AFF in 8 jumps, some may take more... either way the end result is the same....

The only naturals in this sport shit thru feathers...

Ron · October 12, 2006

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I sure as hell hope that someone with that many AFF jumps should eventually learn to be a good skydiver.

Some do, others never get it. As long as they are not dangerous, I don't really care how good they become.

For example, there was a student this weekend. She just could not do the back loops correctly. She pulled out too soon and ended up on her back. She fixed it and tried again and got the same result. She pulled on time and was fine under canopy.

This was not my student, but the AFF I on the job did not pass her. She did not pass the required manuvers. Does that make her unsafe? Nope, in fact I prefer to see my students get unstable and fix it on their own. *I* would rather see a student get unstable and fix it than perform a perfect backloop. But this student did not perform at the level the AFF I wanted so she repeated the level. Does that make her a bad student or unsafe?

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I'm saying is that is ALOT of training jumps and in skydiving for the most part you have to be quick in everything, including LEARNING!

OK, while being quick sure helps, not everyone is. So as long as the student is *safe* I don't care how good they are. As long as they have the right attitude they can keep jumping till *they* want to quit.

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Were you the AFF instructor??

Nope, but I have had "problem children" before. One girl started crying in the plane, then when I told her she did not have to jump and we can ride the plane down she cried more.

Some people take to the sport like a duck to water....Other's like a duck to soup.

But as long as they are not dangerous, they will never get the bowling speech from me.

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Sorry you don't like my opinion.

If I like it or not is not really important. I am trying to get you to understand that there is a big difference between not performing/passing, and not being safe. I know folks that will never win a medal nor be on a world record, but are safe and have fun.

Thats all. Not everyone "gets it". But they should be allowed to try.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

kelpdiver · October 13, 2006

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No, you didn't. 25 jumps is a hard requirement.

Lol, there is a wider world out there you know!

Maybe take a look at the DZ's in someones profile before acting Mr Know-It-All next time

I did. The original poster is in Minnesota.

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