genoyamamoto 0 #51 April 12, 2005 Glad you responded. I didn't think you were overcharging but it's nice to hear your side of the story. Gotta go... plaything needs to spank me Feel the hate... Photos here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1cameraguy 0 #52 April 12, 2005 I agree, the next time I'll tell them to pay up or shut up! PERIOD end of discussion! No I will fine tune my sales pitch and I appreciate the feedback. I'm amazed how many people tell me, but it only costs $3.25 at XYZ store for an enlargement and take no consideration into everything involved. I would tell you all about it but that would be falling back into the trap Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DShiznit 0 #53 April 12, 2005 Great explanation!!! Kudos for coming on to tell the full story. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelel01 1 #54 April 12, 2005 So what would you charge if I handed you a roll of film and offered to pay for your slot, and then I wanted the roll of film at the end? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #55 April 12, 2005 Sounds like you were up front in your price request and nothing unethical about your actions. However, you were on a jump of your choice and had no arrangement with this guy. Charging him an extra $10 isn't cool. Jen----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1cameraguy 0 #56 April 12, 2005 No charging him an extra anything. An air-to-air photo costs $30 That's what I asked for, that's what he gave me. Only after I printed his enlargrment did he "TELL" me what the photo was worth. I chose to keep the photo in my portfolio and remember the skydive for what is was. I tried to explain to a novice skydiver , only months in the sport, how the structure works. That was a mistake I won't make again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tigra 0 #57 April 12, 2005 The way I'm reading this, there was no extra $10.00 charge. The price was always $30.00, which the guy happily agreed to pay for not one but TWO prints of a close up shot under canopy. (Too close apparently!) My guess is that while he was waiting for his print, he went to show off the 5X7 to his buddies and one of them told him he was paying too much! So he decided to complain about the price and try to get the cameraman to reduce it. So the cameraman got defensive and explained his pricing strategy. Now the cameraman has an extra close up shot of the newbie who tried to kill him, and the newbie has nothing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #58 April 12, 2005 I'm wondering if this discussion would be happening if some one like Michael McGowan, Norm Kent, or Tony Hathaway had walked up and asked for $30 for a picture. Would any one ask those guys for a discount? The guy was wrong to change his mind after a price was quoted.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #59 April 12, 2005 QuoteThe guy was wrong to change his mind after a price was quoted. No, the guy was wrong to change his mind after he already paid the price that was agreed upon - directly resulting the extra expense of producing the enlargement. Our photographer took the risk to produce a 5x7 - his choice, but the enlargement was produced due to a good faith agreement. Attempting to haggle is fine, but not after the 'handshake' - that's slimy. I'm not big on cold selling pictures at a DZ though either. But it harms no one, helps some, and a person can always say "Hey, nice picture - no thanks" - That said, a couple of my favorite pictures were stills from 20 way practice in Coolidge from 1990 that the photographer brought in cold one day that season. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LawnDart21 0 #60 April 12, 2005 Good for you for stepping up here and setting the record straight. Am I the only one wondering why dtpilot didnt have the common sense to talk this out with 1cameraguy as an adult IN PERSON, rather than shout all over dz.com about a perceived injustice that wasnt even an injustice? dtpilot, next time sort out your issues in person not over the internet. -- My other ride is a RESERVE. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tigra 0 #61 April 12, 2005 I've jumped with a couple of cameramen who will print up one or two shots and pass them around the video debrief, and let everyone know they're for sale. A few years ago, that wasn't really possible. I've bought a few pictures that way, in fact there's one on my wall right now. We pay more for convenience everywhere else, so I really don't see why it should be so different at the dz anyway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #62 April 12, 2005 QuoteI'm wondering if this discussion would be happening if some one like Michael McGowan, Norm Kent, or Tony Hathaway had walked up and asked for $30 for a picture. Would any one ask those guys for a discount? LOL I've easily paid $30 for an 8x10 or 11x14 many times and as much as $45. I felt each photo I have ever purchased was worth what they asked and that's what I paid. If its not worth it to you, then don't buy it, but don't pay the guy, have him go print off the enlargement then say try to re-negotiate the price. Those printers aren't cheap, nor is the ink or paper. JudyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #63 April 12, 2005 Quote So what would you charge if I handed you a roll of film and offered to pay for your slot, and then I wanted the roll of film at the end? When we do that for tandems, the DZ charges upwards of $100. Of course, the exact price depends on the DZ. Of that, the camera man sees slot + $40-something. When a fun jumper asked me to do that last year, he paid my slot plus $20. I'm pretty sure I was undercharging, but those feelings were tempered by the knoledge that the jumper will probably have the film processed at Walmart, which will butcher the prints and the jumper will be paying another $30 in enlargement fees for a crappy print. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #64 April 12, 2005 QuoteSo what would you charge if I handed you a roll of film and offered to pay for your slot, and then I wanted the roll of film at the end? I got a feeling he doesn't have a camera that takes a roll of filmMay your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelel01 1 #65 April 12, 2005 Good point. Wow . . . my DZ isn't that fancy. We don't have any of these problems, since most of our camera guys don't live off of their skydiving income. I've just never even heard of this before. Who here charges people to copy video via fire wire? No one's ever made me pay after fun jumping with them, and when I get a camera, I plan on returning the favor, to more and less experienced jumpers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StevePhelps 0 #66 April 12, 2005 David won't remember me, but I sure do remember him. A few summers back I was visiting SDD and making some FF jumps. I made nine that day. Eight of them solo. At the end of the day David noticed I'd been around all day doing solos. He offered to jump with me and give a coaching lesson on FF. He did so at his own cost. Then he dubbed over his footage onto my camera. David, I sucked back then, but I'm a lot better now (thanks to guys like you). I fly video for our DZ. I appreciated your generosity that went beyond the call of duty. I have made it my mission to give back to young flyers and I often give them shots at no cost. The reason? Following the example you gave me. Now does tha mean I must give them all away? I hope not. I depend on this for my livelyhood too. Your price was more than fair. As I said, I bet you don't even remember me ... but I remember you ... thanks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tonyhathaway 0 #67 April 12, 2005 QuoteI'm wondering if this discussion would be happening if some one like Michael McGowan, Norm Kent, or Tony Hathaway had walked up and asked for $30 for a picture. Would any one ask those guys for a discount? WOW! I'm in the same sentence as those 2 . Things are looking up! My O.C.D. has me chasing a dream my A.D.D. won't let me catch. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #68 April 12, 2005 QuoteQuoteI'm wondering if this discussion would be happening if some one like Michael McGowan, Norm Kent, or Tony Hathaway had walked up and asked for $30 for a picture. Would any one ask those guys for a discount? WOW! I'm in the same sentence as those 2 . Things are looking up! Why in the world wouldn't you be? You do wonderful workMay your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1cameraguy 0 #69 April 12, 2005 You will never be forgotten-all video and pics free for you. Someone who appreciates what I do will forever be in my debt- OK TIPS ACCEPTED Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1cameraguy 0 #70 April 13, 2005 I will gladly use your film and jump ticket and charge you $6 for my pack job. I would also bring my digital still camera that allows me to fire twice as many shots and if you like a picture the digital still caught we can talk, if your happy with your film we all win. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1cameraguy 0 #71 April 13, 2005 Wait just a minute. SPANKINGS! Why wasn't I told about this sooner, I can video the whole thing and OVERCHARGE you for a copy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dtpilot 0 #72 April 13, 2005 David: First...thanks for posting you side of the story and it is well represented. I did leave out some details that I really didnt feel were relavent...like my # of jumps. Who cares. I do apologize for backing out on the deal but I was so excited to see that you had a nice shot that I over looked the fact that you said pay for your load. You said $10 for the pic and $20 to cover your load. Ya I have no problem paying for the load only if I asked you before the load. I really dont care what you payed for your equipment. That is your own business and you should go around telling the world just to make your point. Be more professional! I recognized my downfall but do you recognize yours? You were a good canopy pilot. Enjoyed flying with you but that wasnt crew. We were less than 100 feet away. I personally have no interested in crew and will most likely never try. Little to dangerous for me. As far as my knowledge of my gear, I never said I was unfamiliar with my gear. I am very confortable. I know how it turns and I am sure I have more air to air confrontations than you. Ive been flying for about 3 years doing my share of group flying and mini dog fights. I understand the physics of flight and how to determine distance from another flyer. When I cut back your way I was in front of you with eye contact. I was below you. As you know when the canopy is turned the air is damed causing the canopy to turn and dive. You were in full flight or less and I was in a tight turn. Come on tell me again, why did you have to avoid me. And wake turbulance falls. Please David, Tell us all why you skydive? Im very interested. Enough with the personal attacks... i understand you hard work and dedication. I have no problem paying for that hard work but only if you will be fair. Fair would be in your pricing. Make it known you charge 30 for the photo, not for the slot and the photo. Be clear on what you charge and no one will question you. It will be a simple yes or no. Your out there offering a service to other skydivers who either lack the experience to be a cameraman, cant afford the gear, or just plan dont want to do it. Thanks for being there. If you think you are out there just to shot photos for others and not for yourself, reevaluate. Maybe we can talk one on one this weekend. Wish you would have joined in on the conversation sooner. "Believe me! The secret of reaping the greatest fruitfulness and the greatest enjoyment from life is to live dangerously!" -- Friedrich Nietzsche Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #73 April 13, 2005 Amazing... simply amazing! First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soulshine 0 #74 April 13, 2005 Umm, maybe I'm just being a dunce here. After reading through this thread it comes down to one of two things here. 1) You like the photo and agree to pay the price he is asking. 2) You either don't like the photo or the price and you walk away. Where's the problem? Why all this debate? It is called commerce. If you don't like the services being offered then don't pay for them. Period. It's actually quite simple when you look at it that way. Some people need to learn to relax...... either that or expect a coronary at 40! Bombing for peace is like fucking for virginity! ~DEVIOUS BEEF~~FGF #69~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dtpilot 0 #75 April 13, 2005 ok ya simple... I liked the photo. I thought is was bull that he want me to pick up his ticket "Believe me! The secret of reaping the greatest fruitfulness and the greatest enjoyment from life is to live dangerously!" -- Friedrich Nietzsche Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
