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mrbiceps

ravens as main

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do all ravens have the ring at the top of the canopy so i can attach a d bag and pilot chute? i understand that there are reserve and main ravens. i am looking at buying a raven that was used as a reserve and wanted to fly it as a main. thanks heaps guys. ps i have searched for answer but no luck

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What model of raven? I've jumped one as a main... I don't recommend it.

Dave

If you're referring to the brisk openings, there are ways to slow it way down. Pocketed sliders, direct control, etc.
"No cookies for you"- GFD
"I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65
Don't be a "Racer Hater"

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its a 1992 raven 2 with 3 jumps on it. i need a 7 cell to get some experience before i learn base.

What is your exit weight? A Raven 2 is 211sqft. You may need to go bigger. F111 canopies don't fly or land like their ZP counterparts. In other words, they're not as forgiving.
"No cookies for you"- GFD
"I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65
Don't be a "Racer Hater"

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its a 1992 raven 2



Unless someone removed it, that canopy should have a bridle attachment on it.


Which would have voided the TSO.



How so? Ravens were built so that you buy two, when you wear out your main, you buy a new reserve and move the reserve down a container. It can be a TSO'ed main, from my understanding.
Not again!

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its a 1992 raven 2 with 3 jumps on it. i need a 7 cell to get some experience before i learn base.

What is your exit weight? A Raven 2 is 211sqft. You may need to go bigger. F111 canopies don't fly or land like their ZP counterparts. In other words, they're not as forgiving.



Probably.

Being able to sink (accuracy style) into a landing area without returning to full flight is eventually going to save your butt in BASE jumping, either because something bad happened (the muppet you jump with having a wall strike, landing first, and lying on the ground in the middle of the landing area while the guy you call Big Benny for his size is telling Mr. Stupid that he'll keep you from landing on top of him is distracting enough you might make it halfway accross the landing area before deciding you need to land before the trees and boulders. Really.) or you decide that skydiving sized landing areas aren't enough fun (There doesn't seem to be a good future in scaring yourself with lower objects, but small landing areas are more a question of skill).

More square footage makes it easier on hard ground. About .65 or .7 pounds per square foot is real nice without comrpomising on responsiveness for avoiding obstacles.

Higher wing loadings work in a skydiving environment if you can consistently land in the middle of the pea gravel - that stuff is fairly soft but gets in your shoes. Landing just off the end of the packing tarp a foot shy of the pilot chute hanging off the end (stepping on it wouldn't be nice) is more practical - you land the canopy on the tarp and start packing.

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Off to the Moony Moony bridge by any chance. Visited that myself in 1988 and used a Raven 2. Went very well. Have 'filled out' since then but did a bridge of similar height recently using a Raven 3. No worries at all...
2 wrongs don't make a right - but 3 lefts do.

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How so? Ravens were built so that you buy two, when you wear out your main, you buy a new reserve and move the reserve down a container. It can be a TSO'ed main, from my understanding.



If you remove something that a reserve canopy was TSO'd with, the TSO is void. Removing the bridle attachment would make the canopy fairly useless as a main.

There's no good reason to remove it, but stupider things have been done by skydivers and riggers in the past...

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Off to the Moony Moony bridge by any chance. Visited that myself in 1988 and used a Raven 2. Went very well. Have 'filled out' since then but did a bridge of similar height recently using a Raven 3. No worries at all...



funny stuff, i drive over mooney nearly every day and have a peek over the side. not ready for base just yet, just brought this canopy to get some experience up on a big 7 cell.

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I went back and did some background research. Here are some things I noticed.

1. You currentlly have a container that fits a Monarch 215. A ZP 9 cell. You do of course realize that a Raven 2 is going to be way loose in that container. F111 packs a lot smaller than ZP. Just because the square footage is similar doesn't always mean pack volume is the same.

2. You have an older thread similar to this one on the sister Base site. Several very experienced Base jumpers told you that at your exit weight the Raven 2 was more than likely a bad idea. I guess you thought maybe here the responses would be different.

3. I understand the saving money part but looking around and waiting for a Raven 4 would be a much better idea than buying the Raven 2 now and possibly facing medical bills that are easily 20 times or more what you currently have invested in skydiving. You should be able to squeeze a Raven 4 into your container without too much of a fuss.

4. I speak from experience on this last note. Slow down a bit. Rushing yourself to get into advanced parachuting sports often comes with unpleasant resullts and very high price tags.
"No cookies for you"- GFD
"I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65
Don't be a "Racer Hater"

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A Raven 2 is 211sqft.



218, actually.

Already been through this once today. Depends on who's measurements you think are more accurate. I'll leave that for you to figure out.
"No cookies for you"- GFD
"I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65
Don't be a "Racer Hater"

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Yes, I'm aware of the PIA measurements, thanks. It is common practice to refer to canopy sizes as labelled by the manufacturer. I notice both of you (likestojump and stitch) use the manufacturer numbers in your profiles, for instance. PIA measurements may be useful for comparison between different manufacturers, but the differences generally aren't all that significant - about 3% in this case. The PIA data is probably most useful for the volume numbers (for container sizing).

Also, the PIA data is incomplete (some canopies are missing data, others are not on the chart at all), which limits its usefulness. Likestojump, go look up your Heatwave 135 - you won't find it.

There are also errors in the PIA data. For example, stitch, the Super-Raven 249 reserve you list in your profile is listed by PIA as having an area of 474 square feet - I don't think so! They measured a Raven 3 that apparently came in at a whopping 2485 square feet! While it's obvious that these are errors, how many non-obvious errors are there?
"It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg

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don't blow it out of proportion.

I list a Heatwave 135 as a model, not as a size. But one of the charts that I have specs 305cu in and 135sq ft (paragear chart)

regardless, the OP was wanting to use a Raven to begin learning how to fly 7 cells for BASE. a 199, a 211, or even a 218sq ft canopy are way too small for his weight. Further as far as sizes are concerned, a 266 measured vs 282 spec'd size - is one size difference, and depending on your intended purpose DOES MATTER.

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don't blow it out of proportion.



I'm not blowing anything out of proportion. What makes you say that?

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I list a Heatwave 135 as a model, not as a size. But one of the charts that I have specs 305cu in and 135sq ft (paragear chart)



Yes, and those are the manufacturer's numbers, not PIA's.

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Further as far as sizes are concerned, a 266 measured vs 282 spec'd size - is one size difference, and depending on your intended purpose DOES MATTER.



1. He was asking about a Raven 2 which is neither 266 nor 282.

2. That depends on how you define a size. Most canopies have 10% to 15% difference between sizes. 282 to 266 is about 5%, which would be a half or third of a size. Given his stated weight, it would change his wing loading by 0.05 lb/ft^2. The difference between 211 and 218 would change his wing loading by 0.03 lb/ft^2. I don't see that as a very big difference.
"It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg

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Most Ravens have bridle attachments.

Only Raven M-series (introduced in 1996 or 1997) were built without bridle attachments.
For BASE - or practicing for BASE - use a Raven 3 (249 square feet) or Raven 4 (282 square feet) to keep your wing loading near 0.7 pounds per square foot. Loading any heavier than that risks injury when stalling it into a tight landing area.

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