all around helmet

[ndlaham 0]

Hey Guys,

Pretty new to the skydiving, just got my A license a few weeks ago. Anyway I'm friken hooked and I have been saving money and doing research for gear.

I am letting my drop zone owner figure out my rig but as for a helmet I need some advice.

One of my instructors told me she think the Z-1 is the best full face for just belly flying and all around. I don't need a camera setup at all, at least not for a while. I can invest in that down the rode.

What do you guys recommend for an all around helmet that I can use for belly flying and learning formation diving? I am willing to spend around 300 for the helmet tops but I would like to hear anyway your suggestions.

I realize this stuff is probably in another thread but I looked up helmets and a lot of posts were from a few years ago so I just wanted an updated response.

Thanks fellas,

Nick

[AggieDave 6]

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a lot of posts were from a few years ago so I just wanted an updated response.

Nothing has really changed in the world of helmets in the last few years.

You have a few questions to ask. Full face or open face. Look cool or actual real protection.

There are a lot of good look cool helmets on the market for skydiving. Personally I like Bonehead, but then again I have a large noggin and they make helmets that fit better than everyone else (for me).

For actual real protection, you're jumping a Pro-Tec.

Personally I use a Bonehead Mindwarp for all around jumping. I use a Pro-Tec Shovelhead for swooping, where I would be more likely to really need real impact protection.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[billeisele 122]

Z-1
love mine

Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.

[iluvtofly 0]

Take this with a grain of salt because I don't have a ton of jumps. But IMO the Z1 is great. I love mine. I use it for belly flying and sit flying. I haven't had any problems with it while sit flying. It's what most people at my DZ use for both belly and sitflying. Just my .02.

[redramdriver 0]

lots of ppl got lots of helmets. Best all around for you at this time...on the cheap...ProTec....use your cash to jump. Then maybe for RW a Z1. You can always have more then one...hell i have many as do most of us. I have like 7 protec's from days as a DZ owner and they are inexpensive and great for student use...to a z1, a bonehead, and a a cookie..and a couple others..Just have fun dude.

So, you bring your beer?

Its 5 o'clock somewhere
POPS #9344

[pilotdave 0]

Depends what you mean by real protection. Protec doesnt protect against kicks to the face. Z1 might not have any certifications, but that doesnt mean it doesn't provide protection. It's more a question of what kind of protection you want... Each does a good job of handling one kind of protection but not others.

I'm sure my Z1 has protected me from a few bloody lips or broken noses. Got NAILED in the jaw on a casa exit once. Thank goodness for the full face.

Dave

[AggieDave 6]

Jaw pain or head trauma?

Its a toss up. Its too bad that there isn't a purpose built skydiving full face that offers actual protection with correct crush foam. That's what I mean by actual protection.

After crashing really hard in training this past year (luckily breaking my fall with my face), I ordered this helmet. Crush protection, jaw protection...too bad it kind of sucks for terminal freefall.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[pilotdave 0]

Most of us don't touch down at 95 mph.
I've personally never seen a head trauma in skydiving, but i've seen some smashed visors and hard kicks to the face. Even a slip n' slide down a casa ramp that woulda really messed up someone's face.

If you're swooping, a motorcycle helmet might be appropriate because you're doing motorcycle speeds. Most skydivers aren't likely to need that kind of protection.

Dave

[AggieDave 6]

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I've personally never seen a head trauma in skydiving,

I have but most of the time there were other very serious trauma as well. Then again, if that does happen the head trauma is what could kill you. I've seen students lives basically saved after they made poor choices under canopy. All due to that old trusty plastic pro-tec.

Then again, I've seen a couple of skydiving full face helmets take some serious blows (and break on occasion) while doing a fine job of deflecting the strike to the wearer's head.

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Most skydivers aren't likely to need that kind of protection.

How many "pro" swoopers have you seen hook in? How many low time jumpers have you seen hook in due to an incorrect reaction?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[ndlaham 0]

thanks guys for your responses.

So my question is if the pro-tec offers better protection, why are they so much cheaper than the helmets designed for sky diving? Don't you think helmets designed for sky diving would offer the right protection and not a helmet designed outside of skydiving?

I am not arguing your point I am just wondering why the Z-1's are so pricy if they don't offer the same protection as a full face pro tec.

Anyone know?

[slotperfect 7]

Here is some info I provided in a previous post about the types of protection a skydiving helmet provides:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2907205#2907205

Arrive Safely

John

[peek 20]

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So my question is if the pro-tec offers better protection, why are they so much cheaper than the helmets designed for sky diving?

They are designed for multiple sports and they are produced in larger quantities.

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...why the [skydiving specific helmets] are so pricey if they don't offer the same protection as a ... ProTec.

With skydiving specific helmets you are paying to look cool (meaning, not like the students who are probably wearing ProTecs). Also, the quantities made are smaller which makes them more expensive.

I am not cool. I wear a ProTec
(Being cheap doesn't hurt.)

[Baksteen 84]

Two reasons I chose a full-face:

1) Nice and warm in winter
2) I should be worrying about foot in mouth disease when doing RW with other newbies.

I tried on both the Freezr Mk II and Z1 and bought the Z1 as it afforded me slightly better peripheral vision than the Freezr.

So far, no regrets...

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[pilotdave 0]

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Don't you think helmets designed for sky diving would offer the right protection

For the most part, I think they do offer "the right protection." They protect from the types of bumps and hits a skydiver is expected to take. They don't protect from major impacts (at least they aren't tested and guaranteed to protect from any particular impact). If we wanted helmets that could protect us from the same impacts that motorcycle helmets do, we'd be wearing motorcycle helmets.

Dave

[ndlaham 0]

thanks guys, i understand what you mean.

well i guess safety is more important to me than looks but it wouldn't hurt to have both.

anyone ever try the mamba?

[AggieDave 6]

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anyone ever try the mamba?

Yup. Best full face skydiving helmet I've ever tried on or jumped. Then again, the other full face helmets don't fit well, since I wear a 7 3/4 hat. They fit small headed people better. The mamba fits larger heads much better.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[erdnarob 1]

Since you just got your A license you still have a lot of instructions to follow. Why not wearing a student helmet for a while like PEEK suggests. If you really want a helmet for many years, I suggest you to buy an open helmet for better visibility purpose and better eye contact during instructions and later in FS or VFS. A lot of instructors don't wear full face helmet during instruction for the same reason. The best hard shell helmet for me is the BONEHEAD since they are made of carbon fiber and that is why they are expensive but the helmets made of carbon fiber are together the most impact resistant and light. Z1 full face from Parasports are nice looking but are made of plastic. Their open helmet shell used to be all the same size and maybe still are, the helmet head size was obtained by different thickness of the lining. You have to think your are doing skydiving where function should always prevail over fashion.
Personally I wear a Frap Hat or leather open helmet. I like to feel the relative wind on my face.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[mnealtx 0]

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anyone ever try the mamba?

Yup. Best full face skydiving helmet I've ever tried on or jumped. Then again, the other full face helmets don't fit well, since I wear a 7 3/4 hat. They fit small headed people better. The mamba fits larger heads much better.

+1 (as another 7 5/8 - 7 3/4 hat wearer)

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

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but the helmets made of carbon fiber are together the most impact resistant and light.

Lighter, yes - more impact resistant, no. It's the padding inside that protects you from that. A plastic shell (like the pro-tec) will take impacts that will splinter a CF shell.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[j5okeefe 0]

Anyone here have a Cookie ROK helmet? The look like they might be good.

I'll be whatever I want to do!

[wolfriverjoe 1,354]

I gotta say go for a Pro-Tec.

#1-Cheap- if you biff it or lose it or something, you won't be out that much.

#2-Tough- I've had some good PLFs on mine, put some good scratches on it, scuffed the stickers up a bit, but no damage.

#3-Good protection- As others have said, it's probably got the best impact cushioning available. When I was new(er) I had some rough landings/PLFs. I don't think I would have been badly hurt with a "regular" helmet or even no helmet, but it saved a nasty headache once or twice.

No, it isn't the coolest thing in the world, but trust me, the up-jumpers will have lots better things to laugh at you for than your helmet.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[LloydDobbler 2]

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anyone ever try the mamba?

Yup. Best full face skydiving helmet I've ever tried on or jumped. Then again, the other full face helmets don't fit well, since I wear a 7 3/4 hat. They fit small headed people better. The mamba fits larger heads much better.

+1 (as another 7 5/8 - 7 3/4 hat wearer)

+2 (except I've got one of those 'unusually-small' heads. I wear a size S in the Mamba, and a size M in a Z1. Gotta love the different variances in sizing.)

Regardless, love the Mamba. Lightweight, good visibility, and the visor stays closed. (Though I know a lot of people who've never had a problem with their Z1, I also know at least 2 who have resorted to gaff tape to keep their latch from coming undone in freefall).

Signatures are the new black.

[erdnarob 1]

It's hard to believe what you say about the resistance of carbon fiber to impact since all carbon fibers and same class of man made fibers like Kevlar, Vectran and HMA are known to be have more resistance to the tension or impact than ordinary plastic. Those carbon fibers or same family fibers aren't used in bullet proof vest?

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[pilotdave 0]

They're all different materials (except kevlar and HMA, which are the same) with different properties. Spectra is also used in helmets for impact resistance and light weight.

I don't personally believe that the materials our helmets are made of makes a whole lot of difference (ie Mamba vs. Z1). They don't have impact absorbing foam in them like a motorcycle helmet does. If you hit either of them hard enough, whether they break or not, the force gets transmitted into the wearer's head pretty well. Neither is designed for any significant impact. They are designed for kicks and head bumps, etc.

The beloved protec is made of plastic. That's because of cost. There are better materials, but who cares? It's not a motorcycle helmet. It's designed to prevent injuries when someone bumps their head on the sidewalk after falling off a skateboard. Materials really start to matter when you get to extremes like road rash at 60 mph.

There's no perfect helmet. It's all about tradeoffs. Protection vs. weight, cost, visibility, aerodynamics, etc, etc, etc. A helmet can only be judged against the job it's designed to do.

Dave

[erdnarob 1]

I can see your point but if you have a helmet made of layers of carbon fiber fabric sandwiched between 2 layers of fiber glass compound like it's the case for Bonehead helmets I believe this type of construction will be quite more impact resistant than a shell made of ordinary plastic like the Z1. The lining will play the role of a shock absorber contrary to what our friend said.
My personal priority for a helmet is lightness, good visibility and keeping contact with the relative wind.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.