Buying new instead of used

[TerminatorSRT4 0]

no no, on a 210 I would be .88

with gear on I weigh about 185

[bigway 4]

You would probably want to start with a second hand 190 and then buy a brand new 170.

I am not too sure why you have been told to buy a 210? Did an instructor tell you this?

Alot of people believe the ideal wing loading for a newbie is 1.0

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[TerminatorSRT4 0]

well lately I've been flying nothing but student 230s that are square (I believe they're all Mantas, not totally sure though) and I'm fairly comfortable on those and want to progress only when I feel I've "mastered" a particular canopy size, so I figured getting a 210 semi-elliptical would be a good starting point

I'm also a fairly conservative person and don't plan on swooping anytime soon, so downsizing quickly isn't much of a priority to me

oh and to answer your question, yes an instructor recommended I start off on a 210

[BUBLHED 0]

Personally I think you should buy used. I bought my first rig which was a big downsize from student gear, jumped it for one season. Then bought my second rig brand new. Downsized again on this one, which was a tight fit in container. I could go down once maybie twice more depending on pack volume if i had wanted too. It worked out great in the long run I sold the first used rig for the same price I paid for it. I think that if you have money to burn then fine buy new, but just remember things change very quickly in your first couple of years. At your weight you'll probebly want to downsize 3-4 times in your first 300 jumps are so.Do what you want and what makes you happy just make an informed decision.

Good Luck
BSBD

ATTACK LIFE ! IT'S GOING TO KILL YOU ANYWAY!!!!

[bigway 4]

I would buy used if i was you. On a 210 your wind limits will be very low, similar to those of student status as you dont want to be going backwards under canopy. Even if you start off on a 210 i imagine it would only be 50 jumps max before you are on a 190.

Just my opinion though, I am fairly certain that it is your instructor who has told you not to buy used and i imagine that is one of his considerations into why you should not buy new.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[erdnarob 1]

I agree with people who tell you to buy second hand first. You have 25 jumps and still have to discover what you like best in type and size of canopies. When you will have 80-120 jumps I am not sure you still would like to load a parachute at 0.88 . Now to put a cross braced canopy into your container forget it since they are quite too small.

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.

[TerminatorSRT4 0]

thanks for all the advice/opinions people

so would it be ok then to buy a new harness, reserve and AAD and then just get a used main?? that way I can play around with different sizes, shapes, designs, etc

[phoenixlpr 0]

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I can only image what 2-3K worth of beer would do Shocked

How many jumps you can make from 2-3K?

about 120

So with 120 more jumps you may learn how to land on your feet and you have a better chance not to get your next, new container muddy, grassy or ruined by landing on the termac... or after 120 more jump you might able to know what canopy you want to fly then....

[BUBLHED 0]

It would be ok but just remember that as you downsize the container size has to change. Still think go used for a year, demo everything you can get your hands on, then re-evaluate your needs. JMHO

IF you do decide to go new PM me next year I'll probebly want your canopy.

ATTACK LIFE ! IT'S GOING TO KILL YOU ANYWAY!!!!

[TerminatorSRT4 0]

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So with 120 more jumps you may learn how to land on your feet and you have a better chance not to get your next, new container muddy, grassy or ruined by landing on the termac... or after 120 more jump you might able to know what canopy you want to fly then....

very valid point

[catfishhunter 1]

It's your money. A Used 190 for the next 100-300 jumps is a good Idea but if you want your gear to match then buy new. A New main is not that much more then used. I was going to buy a used 210 in Perris. they wanted 1350 for it with 200 or 300 jumps. The thing was stock colors and looked like it had 1000 jumps. I got a New main custom colors for a couple hundred more. I had no Idea how little difference I could get it for until I aksed.

I sold that main this year with a couple hundred jumps on it for 300 less then the cost of the new 190 I ordered this year. So I jumped it all year for $300 bucks and a New Skydiver got a Kick Ass Canopy with very few jumps at a GREAT price.

Everyone ended up happy from Square1 who sold the new canopy, Me for getting my custom Canopy at a really great deal, PD for selling 2 canopies in less then 13 months and the Kid that bought my canopy instead of some stock color canopy with more jumps but the same price.

So if you have the cash Buy New. You'll be putting smiles on lots of folks faces not just your own

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[TerminatorSRT4 0]

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It's your money. A Used 190 for the next 100-300 jumps is a good Idea but if you want your gear to match then buy new. A New main is not that much more then used. I was going to buy a used 210 in Perris. they wanted 1350 for it with 200 or 300 jumps. The thing was stock colors and looked like it had 1000 jumps. I got a New main custom colors for a couple hundred more. I had no Idea how little difference I could get it for until I aksed.

I sold that main this year with a couple hundred jumps on it for 300 less then the cost of the new 190 I ordered this year. So I jumped it all year for $300 bucks and a New Skydiver got a Kick Ass Canopy with very few jumps at a GREAT price.

Everyone ended up happy from Square1 who sold the new canopy, Me for getting my custom Canopy at a really great deal, PD for selling 2 canopies in less then 13 months and the Kid that bought my canopy instead of some stock color canopy with more jumps but the same price.

So if you have the cash Buy New. You'll be putting smiles on lots of folks faces not just your own

convincing story/good points for getting a new canopy

[skybytch 259]

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It would be ok but just remember that as you downsize the container size has to change.

Not necessarily. In most containers you can safely go two sizes smaller than it was built for. A container built for a 210, while maybe not ideal, will likely work just fine when he's flying a 170. Unless he's going to be downsizing every 50 jumps or does a crapload of jumps in the next year, whatever he buys now will likely still be on his back in 2010. If he can afford it and doesn't care about it getting scratched or dirty, there's no reason for him NOT to buy a new custom container for his first rig. It is going to be HIS rig, after all...

Besides, more new containers sized for 210's being sold now means more used containers of that size on the market in the future - you all seem to be forgetting just how hard it can be to find used containers in that size range.

I would agree that a used main at that light of a wingloading makes sense though. But again, it's HIS money.

[TerminatorSRT4 0]

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In most containers you can safely go two sizes smaller than it was built for. A container built for a 210, while maybe not ideal, will likely work just fine when he's flying a 170.

I didn't know that, really?? if by some chance I did in fact keep the same 210 container and eventually went down to a 170 canopy would the manufacturer of the container be able to adjust it some to fit a 170? But if what you're saying is true, I guess that would really be necessary

[skybytch 259]

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if by some chance I did in fact keep the same 210 container and eventually went down to a 170 canopy would the manufacturer of the container be able to adjust it some to fit a 170?

The only adjustment needed would be to shorten the closing loop. This is something you should already know how to do.

Be sure to ask the manufacturer of the rig you decide to buy before planning to do this though. It isn't ideal, but on most containers it isn't completely unsafe.

[livendive 8]

I don't think it's a terrible idea to buy a new container, reserve, and AAD, but a new main is generally kinda silly for someone so new into the sport. Appropriately sized, you can easily make a first rig last you 500+ jumps and still get a decent amount of money out of it when you're ready to downsize beyond what is safe in that container. If you're average sized, used gear can work just fine and save you some dough, but if you want your colors and a perfect fit, new is probably where you'll end up and that's fine.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[gearless_chris 1]

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if by some chance I did in fact keep the same 210 container and eventually went down to a 170 canopy would the manufacturer of the container be able to adjust it some to fit a 170?

The only adjustment needed would be to shorten the closing loop. This is something you should already know how to do.

Be sure to ask the manufacturer of the rig you decide to buy before planning to do this though. It isn't ideal, but on most containers it isn't completely unsafe.

I like the idea of getting a new container that will fit you well, it's also nice to have the modern up to date features. Get it sized for the used 210 you plan on starting with as the upper end of the scale. You want a used 210 main because a new 210 will be a bear to pack with a tight container. A new 190 shouldn't be too bad, and a new 170 should be a breeze. Going smaller is questionable and most people aren't going to recommend it. The closing loop grommets shouldn't line up when closing the flaps. If they do you won't have enough tension to be safe. I've heard this from a senior rigger, a master rigger, and also Mark from UPT. I don't know what size canopy my old rig was designed for but it's huge. We have packed a Raven 3 (254 sq.ft.) in it, and I've also had a 150 Stilleto in it. The Stilleto was very loose and I wouldn't do that again, definitely would fail the grommet test. One thing to keep in mind is that different canopies pack different even if they're advertised as the same size. A skymaster 185 packed up bigger than a 188 pilot because of the Dacron lines. The 150 Nitro I demo'd packed the same as my 170 Nitron due to the extra reinforcing the Nitro has that the Nitron doesn't (but is supposed to have). According to Beezy the reinforcements are the only difference between them.

"If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane.

My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole.

[JohnDeere 0]

When i had about the same amount of jumps as you i ordered a new vector. Vector has a long waiting time. But i ordered new container, main, reserve, and AAD. By the time it got to me i had about 100 jumps, wich was perfect for my Sabre 2 170 @ 1.1 WL.

I am now jumping a new Sabre 2 150, and my container will hold a Sabre 2 135. So i antisapated what size i should be ok to jump when my container got here. But my DZ has alot of good gear to rent so i had a 210 and a 190 Sabre 2 to rent from them to get good at them before mine got here. So worst case was i would have to rent gear for a little while longer even after my gear got here if i wasn't confortable on the 170, But after my gear got here i did 1 jump on the DZ's 170 (in case i fell) and felt fine on it.

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[girthrockwel 0]

If I had the money I'd buy new. But I don't, I have way too many hobbies and not enough money to support them so I'm buying used.

[Chubba 0]

You can always buy "near new" used gear, I got my Infinity with only 10 jumps on it (pic attached, VERY clean), Sabre2 with only 50 jumps, PD reserve with 0 jumps and a 8 month old Cypres2.

If you got the cash, you can get pretty much EXACTLY what you want in the used gear market... it's going to cost you though.

I overpaid, but I'm loving my gear Australian dollar went to absolute shit, turns out my overpaid gear is now an bargain

[Gato 0]

I only have a few more jumps than you (the OP), so I can only offer my perspective on what a newbie should do.

I just got my first rig a few weeks ago, and here's what I got:

Talon from 1991: $250 (Not the prettiest rig, but DAMN solid)
New BOC, chest strap, velcro replacement, and inspection/assembly: $114
PD230 9-cell main: $450 (20 jumps on it)
Raven III reserve: $350 (never deployed, packed only twice before)
Reserve pack: $50

Total cost to get in the air: $1164

The Raven III doesn't leave any room for an AAD in the container, and that's the only negative, really. I'd prefer to jump with one, but I'm jumping at a 182 DZ with very little traffic right now. I am, however, going to buy a Tempo 210 or a Raven II before next spring, because I DO want an AAD before going to any boogies.

Don't let anyone talk you into spending more than you have to. I agree that if you have the money, buying new is mostly preferable to buying used - but you should consider the fact that your entire rig, used or new, will have to be inspected and approved by a rigger before you can jump it - and this rigger will apply the same standards whether the gear is new or not. People HAVE gotten defective products before, so there's no guarantee that the custom stuff you order will be absolutely perfect and absolutely safe. Do you get what I'm saying here?

Look at it like this: Would you rather buy a brand new Chevy Cobalt or a 4 year old Honda Accord for half the money?

(Not saying that's a likely scenario, I'm just being rhetorical. )

T.I.N.S.

[phoenixlpr 0]

You should not go so deep. Buy at least a ZP main canopy.