SAVE SKYSURFING!!!

[crotalus01 0]

watching skysurfers is what made me want to skydive to begin with. if i had never seen it, who knows if i ever would have done a tandem, much less get licensed?
my regional director was one of my AFF-Is and i see him almost every weekend, so no need for me to email him.

As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD...

[Douva 0]

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As for skysurfing as a marketing tool, I and several of my peers have done several commercial shoots (print ads and filmed) that have inspired people to try skydiving. Almost every weekend at my dz I meet someone who said they were inspired by skysurfing they saw on tv or in a magazine and it was one of the reasons they decided to try skydiving.

Four months ago a reporter and photographer from the Austin American-Statesman's XLENT weekly news magazine were out at Skydive San Marcos doing a cover story on skydiving. After seeing Brains and me land from a training jump, they made the spur-of-the-moment decision to do a seperate full page story on L.A.S.T. and skysurfing in general. Our drop zone and the entire sport of skydiving got a little extra coverage because WHUFFO'S DIG SKYSURFING! It's a great tool for drawing new people into the sport of skydiving.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[Douva 0]

This is a quick bump to let everyone know that your emails need to be sent out by tomorrow (Wednesday, July 13) if they're going to reach the directors in time. You can email the entire board (including your regional director, the national directors, etc.) by sending an email to [email protected], with the email subject being "ATTN Board of Directors."

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[jmpwme 0]

This has been a never ending theme for the last several years. To answer some questions, Yes, skysurf is more popular in Europe, but not by much judging from the number of competitors that attended the European Championships recently held in Russia. Of course, cash for travel is an issue here.

There was a fair turnout in for the World Championships in 2004 and for the men in 2003 in France. The women are still having issues with numbers at the international level. This is worsened by the retirement of Tanya O'brien and Kathee Johnson in the US. We "see" very few women (and men for that matter) coming up in Skysurf in the US and that is frustrating to USPA. If there are any, they need to make themselves known.

Why don't more people skysurf - its HARD!!! But - IMO, it is the most beautiful discipline to watch (my apologies to the freefliers and canopy pilots who are also pretty amazing). Having tried it once and failed horribly (but having watched many jumps from the cameraman's perspective), I can truly appreciate the difficulty involved. Sadly, as seen by the X-games removal, the general audience, while appreciating the grace, cannot relate to the sport. This however - is not grounds for elimination from Nationals. I certainly don't see any other discipline getting TV time. In fact, skysurf probably gets more than others. Of course, this alone is not grounds for keeping the discipline either.

Now - as to the question, droping an event for lack of participation creates a bad precedent. If this happens, does it mean that Women's 4-way teams from the US will be next? There will likely only be 3 or 4 of them at Nationals in open. USPA has been fighting for their elimination as well. Granted, this is not apples and apples, but lets not allow the camel's nose under the tent.

So long as IPC has skysurf as an event, the US should field a team. Of course, those who qualify should attend these international meets. THis failure serves only to give USPA another hammer to nail the skysurf coffin shut.

How do we keep USPA off our skysurfers' backs - increase participation. BUT - skysurf is bit like freefly in terms of the percentage of people who particpate in that discipline who actually attend Nationals with a team. Same in skysurf. Those who do it need to go to nationals. Freestyle as well. Particpation in the AE's need to pick up plain and simple.

Where is the drive among AE compeitors that has fired up the 4-way world. Folks - GO COMPETE. Get your friends to compete. This is how to keep any discipline alive. The US still has some of the best skysurfers in the world. They are just retired or freeflying. Freeflyers - strap a board on and see what you can do (get some coaching first!!!!). We have some outstanding coaches available for skysurf if you seek them out. People who were pioneers in the sport. GO BIG.

Steve
Elsinore Boardwalk Team USA 2003-04
Elsinore GT

[mailin 0]

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We have some outstanding coaches available for skysurf if you seek them out.

who? I recall seeing a link on SDAs website a few years ago, but its gone now...

Where can we learn? From who?


Jen

Arianna Frances

[ltdiver 3]

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We have some outstanding coaches available for skysurf if you seek them out.

who? I recall seeing a link on SDAs website a few years ago, but its gone now...

Where can we learn? From who?


Jen

Tanya Garcia-O'Brien at Perris still does the ground school, as far as I know and her husband/partner, Craig, will go up and video you for the classes.

Team Perris Firestarter. World Champion Team, coaching whoever wants to learn! (psst....she even beat all the -men- at her last World Competition, she's that good!)

photo credit Mike McGowen

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[jmpwme 0]

Perris Valley has a skysurf school with Craig and tanya. Scott Smith at Perris is also available and has a video out. Kathee and Larry at Skydive Elsinore. I believe there are also some coaches in Eloy. On the east coast Sean McKormack is outstanding. He was the original free flier on a board. Freefliers such as Alaska Jon are also fairly good skysurf coaches on a very advanced level. I'm sure there are others from the international scene that still train here. Hopefully other will chime in here with suggestions. Ask around at the larger DZ's.

Steve.

[mailin 0]

Thanks for the list. Seeing as I'm in the northeast its looking like I'll have to travel... which makes it harder to do


Jen

Arianna Frances

[Ron 7]

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One of the critical missions USPA is now fighting is getting our membership back up. It has dropped 10% in the last year and USPA has hired a professional marketing firm to help stop the hemoraging.

Keeping skysurfing at the Nationals is not going to do anything to add members.

Skysurfers can still skysurf, they can still have footage to "wow" the crowds...Even though the death of skysurfing in the Xgames should be proof enough that it was not enough of a draw to stay viable.....Nothing will change if the Nats does not include skysurf.

The fact that the USPA is now throwing away unclaimed medals since people don't seem to care enough to bother to train and go to nationals is all that the USPA needs to know to know that skysurfing does not need to be there.

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As for skysurfing as a marketing tool, I and several of my peers have done several commercial shoots (print ads and filmed) that have inspired people to try skydiving. Almost every weekend at my dz I meet someone who said they were inspired by skysurfing they saw on tv or in a magazine and it was one of the reasons they decided to try skydiving.

And that can continue without it being at the nats. People come to the DZ and want to fly a wingsuit....They are not even at the nationals.

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Now I can't disagree with you on the the number of skysurfing/freestyle/S&A competitors at Nationals. It's pathetic. And I'm trying to do what I can to turn that around. But I ask you, looking at the big picture and how USPA is trying to increase membership, how will eliminating these events from Nationals help our sport?

If they can't be bothered to show up to compete, why hold a competition?

Just so the few that do can claim a medal?

Explain to me how one competiton that last year had only 4 people not being around will destroy the USPA?

It won't and you know it.

Its not liek the USPA is trying to ban it...They just realize that since only 4 of the 35,000 member care and medal are going unclaimed that there is no need for a competiton.

And they are right.

Explain to me how 4 people can turn around and save the USPA?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Douva 0]

If you know of anyone who might want to get involved in the fight to keep skysurfing in Nationals, I have attached a letter (Microsoft Word document) that you can email to your friends.

As to where to get training, I've received training from Scott Smith and can personally vouch for his proficiency as a skysurfing coach. Tanya and Craig are AMAZING to see in action, and anyone wanting to get into skysurfing would be lucky to train with them. Larry (Heltzer) at Elsinore is an excellent skysurfer, and I know he would jump at the chance to train you (chime in here, Larry). Rob of Crazy Lemur (also in California) is also available for coaching, as are Brains and I (Texas). There are skysurfers in Florida and Arizona (try talking to Jason Peters at Eloy to find out who's available for coaching). I'm sure there are others around the country who I don't know about, but the point is you can get training if you really want it. If you wanted to organize and get a small class together, you could probably bring a coach to you. As I said, anyone who can make it to Skydive San Marcos (1/2 way between Austin and San Antonio, 4 hours from Dallas, 2 1/2 hours from Houston) this summer can train with me for the cost of my jump tickets.

Blue skies,

Douva

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[Douva 0]

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The fact that the USPA is now throwing away unclaimed medals since people don't seem to care enough to bother to train and go to nationals is all that the USPA needs to know to know that skysurfing does not need to be there.....Explain to me how one competiton that last year had only 4 people not being around will destroy the USPA?

Here's a math question, Ron. If 4 TEAMS (not people) showed up, and there are medals for first, second, and third place, how many medals were thrown away?

Edited to add: If there are extra medals lying around, could somebody please mail a couple to Brains and me? We felt a little left out last year.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[MakeItHappen 15]

I can see that I'm going to get another 'stirring the pot' sticker at this meeting. ;)

Just to re-emphasize the procedures:

If you can get a motion to eliminate skysurfing defeated in the Comp Comm, then you are done. The motion never makes it to the FB.

So - email the Comp Comm. first.

If you find that the majority of the Comp Comm want to do away with skysurf, then find 12 votes on the FB to keep skysurf.

It's news to me that an email to uspa_AT_uspa.org with Attn BOD Members will get to BOD members. Maybe that's a new thing that HQ is doing.

I think it may be better to use the BOD emails or this alias
uspabod_AT_skydivehard.com Replace _AT_ with @
If this email is ever linked directly, I will change it. We don't want spam from email farmers.

The other thing is that it is better for BOD members to read and digest your comments before a mtg, not at the mtg. So email them before Thursday (the usual travel day). Do NOT assume that the BOD is reading this thread. I may be reading it, but not many others.

One other thing is that _some_ (not all) BOD members do not reply or respond to mass emails to the BOD. You may have to make a special email for them - addressed to them personally.

Lastly, the efforts are paying off. I just got this email (sans ID info)

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This is an email I received form Lawrence Heltzer, the (old Cal City, Apple Valley) Elsinore skysurfer. He'd like some input to USPA. This was my response to USPA and the other 2 addresses. Help him out.

If this sport ever has a chance to make it to the Olympics, it will need a way for the wufos to relate. They'll never know how hard it is for a relative team to crank points but they'll be wowed by the skysurfers. Maybe they'd tolerate the rest. Think about the future of the sport before you shut the skysurfers down.


[name deleted]


Subject: HELP!!!


I need your help. Please write to our National and Regional Directors to stop the USPA Board of Directors from killing off skysurf. As both Scott and John have told me, they hardly hear from anybody and they would love to hear from you!



Scott Smith

Regional Director

scott_AT_skydiveperris.com



John DeSantis

National Director

johnjds_AT_att.net



The dropzone.com link to the forum that explains what USPA is considering:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1728648#1728648



The actual competition Committee Agenda (see Section 6):

http://uspa.org/news/notices/CompAgenda07.05.pdf



Blue Skies!!!



Lawrence



One more thing, folks. In addition to sending emails to Scott and John or who ever your representative are, could you please send a copy to the USPA Board of Directors:



uspa_AT_uspa.org

Subject: ATTN Board of Directors

Oops - I've been remiss in my duties.

Those that advocate elimination of skysurf also have the same communication avenues.


.

.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[jmpwme 0]

For the benefit of others (email sent to Jan) - Ron addresses some interesting points, but doesn't address the issue of whether we should field a team if its an IPC event.

If IPC has skysurf, U.S. should keep skysurf. plain and simple. U.S. should field a team that is as large as possible every time. To attend an IPC meet, our reps must be sanctioned by the USPA. To do that, there has to be a meet someplace to choose the rep and USPA has to recognize that meet. The Nationals is the best way to choose the skysurf rep and offers the least amount of red tape. Judges are already there, planes are there, USPA is there and the cost of medals, if that is an issue, can be borne by entry fees (which it already is so the argument there is hogwash). This is also roughly the same argument used to keep women's 4-way sanctioned by the USPA. It worked there why not here? At last nationals, which had more open class teams, skysurf or women's 4-way? So, Tanya retires, the US quits winning World Championships and USPA wants to kill the event???? Come on guys.

AE's need as much participation as possible and they should all be encouraged to attend the IPC meets. It was a shame to watch France walk away with the overall medal at the 2003 Mondial in Gap largely because of the lack of US particpation in the AE's. Each event gets 3 teams. In GAP, there were 2 skysurf, one freefly, zero freestyle. Hmmmmmm, funny, skysurf had the largest turnout for the US team. In all honesty, neither skysurf team medaled, but at least they were there. Granted, this shifted some in 2004, but skysurf has a strong past in US team participation. It has strongly supported USPA over the years. USPA should return the favor.

Just my 2 cents.

Steve.

[GTAVercetti 0]

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How can you build interest without a national level competition to aspire to?

Jen

I do not, in any way, believe that having skysurfing at Nationals will inspire someone to take up the discipline. Hell, when I started skydiving, I did not even know there WAS a National event.

And even now that I know, I don't skydive to compete. In fact, most of my friends do not do it to compete. We do it simply because we love it.

Disciplines and sport popularity are in constant flux and they come and go from competition (look at the skeleton in the Winter Games). To me, there are just not enough competitors to keep it around. Maybe someday it will be popular again, but I do not think the reason for that will be because it is a National competition event. Instead, it will be because someone sees a video and says, 'hey, that looks pretty cool. I should try that.'

Even if it is dropped from Nationals, I believe it will still be used in commercials and film and whatever else. It just in not viable as a competition at the moment.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[tdog 0]

Douva,

I understand that the skysurfing numbers are down... Should the event be removed from Nationals??? Well, I don't think so, if you can get a few teams to compete!

I want to tell you that I am skydiving today because I saw Troy surf in IMAX. Enouf' said!

My wuffo father asked me, "so when are you going to stick a board on your feet?" Being a snowboarder, I am surprised I haven't yet. Most wuffos don't know skysurfing numbers are down.

I still find watching skysurfing to be more dramatic and awe inspiring than any other form of skydiving, even though I am currently a 4way guy.

And... When I was in San Diego and met (and saw jump) the younger Rob Harris (Crazy Lemur)- I remembered why I got into this sport. It was the memory of seeing Troy surf, not some freefly or 4way video.

So, I encourage you to save it any way you can. You may forward these comments to whoever it may help. And, because of that, I believe the USPA should continue to support it until it can't be supported anymore... If that means one team, then why not.

Thanks for keeping the discipline alive.

[Douva 0]

Sent to the USPA board of directors:

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Ladies And Gentlemen:

Ten years ago most Americans didn't even know skydiving competitions existed. Then they saw something that looked like this:

http://www.skydive.tv/Competition.htm

Though skysurfing has been little more than a blip on the radar to most skydivers for the last five years or so, it has remained the face of skydiving to many non-skydivers. Is the USPA now prepared to forfeit the FAI IPC world skysurfing championships indefinitely? Are we really going to throw in the towel simply because our roster isn't what it used to be? Do we really want to look like the spoiled Americans who won't play without a "dream team?" Skysurfing is an internationally competitive sport, and the United States of America should be represented. The most logical way to select and validate those who will represent us is through head-to-head competition at the National Skydiving Championships. As long as there are USPA members willing to compete in skysurfing, the USPA should be willing to let them.

Blue skies,

W. Scott "Douva" Lewis
D-22772
AFF-I
L.A.S.T. #1

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[MarkM 0]

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How can you build interest without a national level competition to aspire to?

I've been interested in skysurfing for a long time, and look forward to trying it in a few years... I hope and pray it doesn't go away from competition, as it will never recover.

That's not how it works.

First some really brave/dumb guy tries out some new thing. Then a couple other people pick up the idea and improve on it. Then you start to see other people doing it because it looks cool. Then when you got some skilled players, you see a competition.

I think skysurfing died down because freeflying is so much easier to get into, doesn't require dealing with a board in the plane and offers what looks like a lot of the same experience: freeform 3D movement. Plus with freeflyfing you can do docks, cluster with a bunch of friends and geek their cameras, etc.

I hate to see the discipline die down, Rob Harris is totally why I started skydiving in the first place, but I totally understand why it has.

[leroydb 0]

I think eversince the xgames dropped skysurfing it has been on a downhill trend... money might be better spent on something that will attact more people, maybe something like swooping to get the public more involved... ya know something they can see (with their eyes live, not a camera?)


edit to add: this dosent mean you have to stop skysurfing just because you cant compete on a national level. Heck I bet you could organize a copetition...

ready for the flamage

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[Rdutch 0]

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Thats only four people who jumped with a board...Compared to 4 way with its 71 teams thats 284 people.

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How long have you been doing 4way? You still dont know there is 5 people on a team, I count 71 teams as 355 people

Ray
Small and fast what every girl dreams of!

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[mailin 0]

I received 3 replies from the competition committee thus far.

All of them saying they support keeping skysurfing at Nationals.



Jen

Arianna Frances

[Ron 7]

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Here's a math question, Ron. If 4 TEAMS (not people) showed up, and there are medals for first, second, and third place, how many medals were thrown away?

Peep Nationals 2003.

There were only THREE Open teams (One guest)...So all you had to do to medal was not die.

In Int. there were TWO teams...(One Guest) and only ONE person medaled since one team that was eligable WITHDREW.

So TWO medals were thrown away in 2003.

Look at 2002...Three teams in Open and ONE in int. So TWO medals thrown away there.

All you had to do in 2003, 2002 was show up and you got a medal.

Real exciting competition there....In Open everyone that showed up went home with a medal, and in Int. the one team that did all 10 jumps won.

Real white knuckle action.

Why don't you ask some of your "Worlds Best" why they don't compete?

Seems to me that if you still had these folks this would not even be an issue.

But if people can't be bothered to show up, why hold a meet?

You never answered any of my prior questions...

Why hold a meet when the only thing you are doing is giving away medals to those who bothered to show up?

Last year there were FOUR teams....The SAME as 2003, the same as 2002. So for the last three years all you had to do was show up to get a medal.

In 2001 you had only three mens open teams, two Womens and in int. ONE team...So that year the USPA threw out one womans medal and two Int medals.

So for 2001-2004 all you had to do was show up and do the 10 rounds and you got a medal.

I could go on, but from 2000-2004 all you had to do was show up and you got a medal....And Medals STILL went unclaimed.

In fact since 1997 Medals have gone unclaimed till last year when the only had ONE class....and they only had 4 theams bother to show.

You can't even claim that the segment of the sport is growing since it is clear it is not.

Why bother holding a meet when people don't care?

You can have skysurfing all day long...But you don't need to hold a competition for 4 teams. It makes no sense.

Explain to me why we should bother to have a competition class when only 4 teams are gonna show up? Cause I don't get it.

You claim that skysurfing is good for the USPA? Well if it was, then you would think more than 4 people in the US would be willing to bother to show up at the Nationals.

And anyway all the good that you claim Skysurfing does can be done without it being in the Nationals....So please explain to me how keeping skysurfing at the Nationals will do more than allow you to try and earn a medal?

Its not viable, get rid of it.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[mailin 0]

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Its not viable, get rid of it.

Thank goodness not everyone agrees with you.

It hurts nothing by keeping it. Big deal, not all the medals are awarded - I'm sure the USPA is throwing away more money every year than the cost of the medals (like any organization), so this is quite moot if your only monetary reason for its exclusion is the cost of the medals not awarded.

I'm sure I'm not the only person who just recently learned that it was in jeapordy, and as a result will do more to learn how to save it - which could (probably) lean toward more people trying it, or even competing in it.


Jen

Arianna Frances

[Ron 7]

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How long have you been doing 4way? You still dont know there is 5 people on a team, I count 71 teams as 355 people

Ray, you know I count the vidiot....But in this case I only counted 4 people willing to strap boards on, so I only counted them...It would not be fair to count the 4way vidiot, and not the skysurf, and to be honest counting the skysurf vidiot would be the wrong number.

So I discounted both.

Anyway it just made the skysurf look better...I had 284 4way people to 4 skysurf. So thats 280 more 4 way people.

Using your numbers we have 355 4 way to 8 skysurf. So we would have 347 more 4way folks.

I didn't count the video in either class.

Not that I don't love the vidiots....

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Treejumps 0]

I can't see how dropping it helps anything, but it just doesn't have much participation, never has, never will. Board jumps are special jumps with much more danger involved. They are also typically solo, so there goes the social aspect of the sport. It also takes a big commitment to get any good at, and since the average jumper makes a couple hundred jumps and quits, well, they never get to a level to do skysurfing.

Like many things in the sport it came and went. There will always be folks who do it but I can't remember the last time I saw a board on a plane. Years ago at Eloy, but never at CK or any local DZ. Skysurfing definitely brough lots of people into the sport, but that was 7 to 10 years ago. On the other hand, how many people actually do S & A (who are under 50)?

Good luck with the fight, but your team name sort of tells the story.

[Ron 7]

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Thank goodness not everyone agrees with you.

Its the nature of anything to change....Get used to it. Also, it seems a good number of people do agree with me since it is on the chopping block.

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It hurts nothing by keeping it.

It does not do anything if we keep it either. We don't jump rounds for accuracy, and the rules for RW have changed, 20 way was gotten rid of...Things change.

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Big deal, not all the medals are awarded - I'm sure the USPA is throwing away more money every year than the cost of the medals (like any organization), so this is quite moot if your only monetary reason for its exclusion is the cost of the medals not awarded.

So you would encoourage an organization to throw away money...? Money you gave it?

The waste of money is not my issue...My issue is no one really cares about it. Since 1998 (7 Years) people could not be bothered to go compete so much that medals were thrown away every year. Last year only FOUR people bothered to show up...The number of skysurfers had DECREASED almost every year since 2000.

The event is not attracting people...It has become an event where all you have to do is not die and you will be given a medal.

That is no reason to continue to hold the event.

The ONLY good argument this far came from Steve...The one about the IPC. This is a good argument to keep it. The rest have been crap.

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I'm sure I'm not the only person who just recently learned that it was in jeapordy, and as a result will do more to learn how to save it - which could (probably) lean toward more people trying it, or even competing in it.

A good number of people knew it was on the way out.

Why don't you ask some of the people who used to be the best why they don't compete or even jump a board anymore?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334