Another friend dead. Can someone help me to understand it.

[homer 0]

I received a call last night from my dad that a long time family friend son was found dead by his girlfriend, he had hung himself. I've known Dean for more than 20 years and he is the third friend I have lost to suicide. I have never been able to comprehend how someone could feel so low, hopeless, and helpless that they feel taking there own life is the only way out. Can someone help me to understand how someone could get to this point. I know all about depression as I have dealt with it myself but never to the point where I don't wont to wake up the next morning. What makes his death even more troubling is nobody knew he even had a problem. Isn't there normally some clue a last cry for help.

CSA #699 Muff #3804

[NWFlyer 2]

Sigh.

Unfortunately, I've dealt with suicide three times. Two who finished the job, one attempted. The hardest thing to deal with as a survivor is thinking "could I have done something?" In many cases, a person who is suicidal will do their absolute best to mask exactly how much they are struggling. They see it as a weakness, when in fact it is an illness, a problem with their brain chemistry.

It hurts; it hurts like hell to lose someone, especially this way. I hope you are able to find peace with this, but know it might take a while. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk more.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[GiaKrembs 0]

I'm sorry~ I have no words of wisdom, or insight to the extreme sorrows... all I know is while we are here, and our friends/family have passed we can pray for their souls to have peace.

Thoughts are with you and those who are dealing wtih this loss

xoxoxoxo, g

Raddest ho this side of Jersey #1 - rest in peace brother
Beth lost her cherry and I missed it
.... you want access to it, but you don't want to break it.

[Amazon 7]

I really dont know why some do it.. and others just seek the attention of others by claiming they will do it.
It has to take a great deal of being desparate to resort to leving this world in that way.

Just be glad you were not the one to find your friend. I walked in to find someone who I did not even have a clue was in that situation until I was the one to find them. That is truely a horrible thing to do to others, since they will have to live with it not the person who made their hasty exit from this life.

[homer 0]

Gia thanks. I'm sad about the loss but more than anything I'm shocked about the surprise of it. I hadn't seen him in a while as he was living in Kirkland (near Seattle). He even had kids.

CSA #699 Muff #3804

[SuperKat 0]

Dude, I'm in the same boat as you. I had 3 friends that killed themselves in the past 3 years too. My best friend in high school just passed away a few weeks ago. Here's the post: dz post

All of them appeared to be happy go lucky guys. You'd never even think that they would do such a thing. The sad thing is, when they made their decision to go, there's no turning back or cries for help.

My best friend two years ago couldn't swim, so he decided to jump in the west river in NYC. He knew that there was no going back or backing out of it. He just did it. What's ironic is he used to talk most of my friends out of hurting themselves or killing themselves in the past. He saved a lot of people's lives. I lost contact with all 3 of my buddies before they killed themselves.

I used to blame myself for not being there for them when they needed. However, who's to say that even if I was there for them that it wouldn't have happened? It's not something we can prevent or control sometimes. And it's not something we can detect early on either, especially, if they don't open up to us.

Try not to remember how they died or when they died. Remember, the way they lived life. Cherish that and don't let go of it.

Blue skies bro.

What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss, Friendo?

[lawrocket 3]

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I have never been able to comprehend how someone could feel so low, hopeless, and helpless that they feel taking there own life is the only way out. Can someone help me to understand how someone could get to this point.

Maybe it's my own coping mechanism, but I've dealt with it a couple of times - the first time when I was 22 years old. I NEVER want to understand it. NEVER EVER. I had a time in my life when I had suicidal ideations. I look at that as when I was at my worst. I've had harder times since then, but my reactions were radically different.

I hope nobody ever "understands" it. It is, by its very nature, illogical for all but those who have an agonizing death sentence, anyway.

I'll keep telling myself that, too, lest I ever feel the desire for an easier way out.

The moment I understand it is the moment I start to condone it.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[livendive 8]

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Can someone help me to understand how someone could get to this point.

I haven't gotten to that point, so I can't *really* say, but here's how I look at it.

Evaluate current happy/sad meter.
Try to forecast near-term and long-term future happy/sad levels.
If the probable amount of long-term future happiness doesn't sound worth the current and near-term future sadness, opting not to take anymore might seem attractive.

Obviously your friend wasn't happy about something, and didn't think it was going to turn around for him real soon. It sucks for those who are left behind, but at least whatever he was suffering has stopped.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[homer 0]

Dave- I never really thought about in that perspective but more of an emotional overwhelment that will only go away when sleeping, in this case an eternal sleep.

CSA #699 Muff #3804

[Zennie 0]

I've never been completely suicidal, but I do have major depression (much better now) and at my lowest points I totally understood what drives people to it.

Suicide is being at a point where you have no hope, see no future. All you see is pain... and you just want it to stop. And I'm here to tell you, mental pain on that level is FAR worse than any physical pain a person can feel.

So suicide for that person isn't the easy way out... it's the ONLY way out.

You can have all the friends in the world, and have a really great support network, but if the person is truly down like that, they can't see through anything but their own anguish.

So no, never blame yourself. You can be the best friend in the world. Sometimes that support is the one little thing that keeps the person going, but sometimes that person is so far down that nothing anybody can do is going to change the way they see things.

My most heartfelt condolences to you.

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

[homer 0]

Ted-

I want to Thank You for what you said. It takes real courage to admit to others as well as yourself that you have had a problem. I can start to understand now just what he may have been going through along with my two other friends who have taken THERE ONLY way out as you put it. Everyone says that if a person is hell bent on taking their own life there is nothing anyone can do to stop them. I guess just being a caring friend who will listen is all one can do in this case.

CSA #699 Muff #3804

[NWFlyer 2]

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Everyone says that if a person is hell bent on taking their own life there is nothing anyone can do to stop them. I guess just being a caring friend who will listen is all one can do in this case.

This is true, Scott. One other thing that you can do is recommend professional help. It may or may not be the thing that makes the difference (both of the people I know who killed themselves had sought professional help), but it has been known to work (my friend who attempted suicide has been able to recover health thanks to great treatment).

Of course, it's a tough discussion to have, and the person may push back at you, but at least making the suggestion might plant a seed. It can be as subtle as "Have you thought about talking to someone about what you're going through?"

[Zennie 0]

Just to sort of expand upon what NWFlyer is saying and clarify a bit what I was driving at.

By "only way out" I don't mean to say that it actually is. It's just that's the way the person sees it.

I know there are folks here (and a certain Scientologist actor) who will disagree with me, but counselling, coupled with anti-depressants, have a HUGE impact on managing severe depression.

I'm sort of in the school where anti-depressants at least get the brain chemistry back to where you're thinking semi-clearly. Counselling then helps you sort through the various issues and cope with the condition.

In my case I've reached a point to where I don't need the anti-depressants anymore. But I do know myself and I'm very aware of my moods, which still swing back and forth. It's just that they are more manageable now.

I also don't delude myself into thinking I'm somehow "cured". There may well come a time when something happens which will require me to go back on the meds and get more counselling. That's just the nature of the condition.

I've never viewed mental illness as a "weakness". Unfortunately, this mindset still does exists with some folks and it is what prevents some people from seeking help when they really need it.

Mental illness is a well-documented bio-chemical condition. It is treatable with therapy and medicines just as the diabetic needs insulin to treat their condition. And, just like diabetes, you may not necessarily be born with it. Life events, particularly stressful ones, can precipitate the condition. And, again like diabetes, once you have it, you'll probably have it for the rest of your life.

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

[skybytch 259]

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Suicide is being at a point where you have no hope, see no future. All you see is pain... and you just want it to stop. And I'm here to tell you, mental pain on that level is FAR worse than any physical pain a person can feel.

So suicide for that person isn't the easy way out... it's the ONLY way out.

Just reading these words brings tears to my eyes. I was there not so long ago. It's a horrible place to be, that black hole full of pain. Luckily for me when I hit the absolute bottom I still had a little bit of sanity left. I reached out. Those I reached out to saved my life. With every fresh new day I am and will be forever grateful to them.

I hope you never really understand what happened to your friend. If you understood that would mean that you'd been there. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.

Cherish your happy memories of your friend. Mourn his absence from your life. But don't blame yourself or anyone else - it's no one's fault.

[homer 0]

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Cherish your happy memories of your friend. Mourn his absence from your life. But don't blame yourself or anyone else - it's no one's fault.

I have heard this statement before from others and NO, I never have blamed myself for any of there deaths because I have done nothing to drive them to do what they did.

Depression is a dark lonely hole, I agree with you. I battle it myself and even more so since returning from Iraq. I'm here today by the graces of GOD because I believe things happen for a reason and he has a plan for me, however I still try to deal with my survivors guilt. I talk about my issues with others and when there is nobody to talk to I use alcohol or (self medication) as I like to refer to it.

I have learned from my short time in this sport that there are many wonderful people who in a time of need you can always turn to. Whether it be a local DZ jumper or someone you have never met willing to lend a helping hand or ear. I know this from the most thoughtful PM's I have received the last couple of days from jumpers who just wanted to listen. I thank you all for your kind words.

CSA #699 Muff #3804

[waltappel 1]

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I have learned from my short time in this sport that there are many wonderful people who in a time of need you can always turn to. Whether it be a local DZ jumper or someone you have never met willing to lend a helping hand or ear.

Amen to that!!!

Walt

[livendive 8]

I'm going to play devil's advocate here I guess, hopefully without offending anyone.

Have we collectively decided that depression is always an illness? Isn't it possible for a rational mind to evaluate a situation and be unhappy with it and the likely future? If that evaluation produces an opinion that death is preferable, is that always a sign of mental illness? I said before that I've never been there (to the point of choosing death), but I'll admit to having been very close, and I never felt like my faculties were reduced.

If a person has a terminal disease that is likely to cause a long painful death, is suicide evidence of mental illness? What if they are choosing to not live life as a quadriplegic? Or choosing suicide over a life behind bars? I know these are extreme examples, but I'm using them to posit that there are some conditions for which suicide might seem like a valid option to a person of sound mind.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[skybytch 259]

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Isn't it possible for a rational mind to evaluate a situation and be unhappy with it and the likely future?

Sure it is. My depression was totally situational. Once I removed myself from the situation I began to see things in a different (much better) light.

[waltappel 1]

Quote

If a person has a terminal disease that is likely to cause a long painful death, is suicide evidence of mental illness? What if they are choosing to not live life as a quadriplegic? Or choosing suicide over a life behind bars? I know these are extreme examples, but I'm using them to posit that there are some conditions for which suicide might seem like a valid option to a person of sound mind.

Blues,
Dave

Years ago, I was a psychiatric nurse. I was there when the doctor was doing the initial evaluation on a guy that had attempted suicide. Of course the doctor asked him WHY he had tried to kill himself.

The explanation the guy laid out had to do with how truly shitty his life was and how there was no hope at all for future happiness in his life. The bad part was that the guy was pretty much dead on in his assessment. He was screwed royally and there really was no hope for him.

Of course I couldn't tell him that I agreed with his reasoning. I don't recall what happened to the guy, but if he did end up taking his own life, I hope it was quick and painless.

Walt

[RhondaLea 3]

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Isn't it possible for a rational mind to evaluate a situation and be unhappy with it and the likely future? If that evaluation produces an opinion that death is preferable, is that always a sign of mental illness?

A friend of mine made this choice not all that long ago.

He had severe health problems, and he was in constant pain.

We talked often about our shared belief that each of us has the right to control our own lives--including when to call it quits. We also talked about why someone might make that choice.

But there's a part of me that still believes if the rest of his life had been happy, he wouldn't have opted out when he did.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[skydiverbry 0]

NO words of wisdom but I feel your pain.Without going into detail I lost a "brother' in'98. TO this day I still think of him and break out in tears. In fact even though I know better deep down I still believe I could have prevented it. I think the hardest part was not being able to takl to him that one last time or tell him how much I loved him and what an impact he made on my life

--------------------------------------------------
Growing old is mandatory.Growing up is optional!!

D.S.#13(Dudeist Skdiver)

[skiskyrock 0]

I think it boils down to which comes first, the decision to commit suicide, or the the depression. If you sit down and rationally decide that the best thing to do is kill yourself, that HAS to be a bit depressing. On the other hand, if preexisting depression is coloring everything you see, it is hard to make rational decisions. It makes it harder to see the future beyond the immediate situation, too, and I've always felt that failure of imagination is behind a lot of suicides. If you can see a future, you can work toward it.

We need a word that means the opposite of suicidally depressed for people who persist in living despite a whole stack of rational arguments against it. A former co-worker of mine went through a series of semi-suicidal episodes (one of which could potentially have taken a few other people with him). He pulled himself together long enough to sell one child and beat the other to death. He has one surviving/unsold child, and I've always wondered which way would have been easier for her.

[Trae 1]

in rep to 'Can someone help me to understand how someone could get to this point. '

Heart felt condolences Homer,

I too have lost friends to suicide (co-incidently 3 in the last few years).

Me and my friends didn't see them coming but afterwards felt bad for not picking up on it. We beat ourselves up a bit (sometimes literally ) for not being bigger hearted towards these friends.

Two of them may have had a bit of help (as in murdered ) and these mysteries have not been solved.
I felt I should have been better equipped to intervene. However we were all caught off step.

Now we have accepted that there are powers way beyond anything we can control no matter how experienced we are.

I feel good when I think that at least their troubles in this life are at an end. It makes me feel better about it all when I realise that they are in the hands and heart of our creator who loves them more than we knew how.

Don't mean to woffle on but wishing you the clarity that comes from having a heart that obviously cares and loves your friends even if you feel it is too late to show it.
If you believe in a spiritual life as well as this physical life then you may sense their spirit still around you.

Other people still remind me of my deceased friends & I know and feel that they are where they want to be.

Thank you & Good on you for caring so much to post as you have in this forum.

Trae

[pa2themd 0]

Hi Homer,

My sincere condolences to you and those left in the wake of the devastaing effects fo suicide. My finace took his own life 2 months ago, I was left reeling and in shock. never having lost someone so close I was literally devastaed, it felt like a nightmare.

There is no sense in it, Sean left behind 3 beautiful kids, no will and alot of destruction, sadness and confusion. All I can say is, I really hope this time passes quickly for you. Today, I am not angry at Sean, neither do I blame myself, how could I be responsible for someone elses actions. You need to know that often there is nothing you can or could have done to save them!

They had thier reasons for doing what they did, however selfish you think they have been .... we can not judge. We do not know how painful what ever it was that made them do it was ... for ever it shall be a mystery. I say honour them, think of them,pray for them if you are religious. Talk about them ... never forget them. I believe Sean is happy and free again, away from the demons that tormented him.

Then live for today, cherish every minute, tell people who you love that you do love them, never wait for tomorrow .. because tomorrow may never come!!!

You are in my thoughts and prayers, take care of yourself!!!

Blue skies


Sheri

"Most of us can read the writing on the wall; we just assume it's
addressed to someone else!" Ivern Ball

[Designer 0]

Mostly it's beyond understanding!I've known 4 Guys who killed themselves over losses of Girlfriends.No woman is worth losing your life for!