rhastadive 0 #1 June 4, 2008 So... Given unlimited funds and a ridiculous ambition. What is your dream rig setup? Consider in your setup in order of importance: Safety Comfortability Flashness Easy learning curve Do people buy their own stuff for AFF certification? or do they use the provided rig's at the DZ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #2 June 4, 2008 I've pretty much got my 'dream rig': Vector 3 w/Skyhook Sabre II main PD Reserve Cypress About the only changes I'd make if I were buying new would be the magnetic riser covers and the memory foam backpad (not available when I bought mine).Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
humanflite 0 #3 June 5, 2008 QuoteSo... Given unlimited funds and a ridiculous ambition. What is your dream rig setup? Consider in your setup in order of importance: Safety Comfortability Flashness Easy learning curve Do people buy their own stuff for AFF certification? or do they use the provided rig's at the DZ? No. For AFF I have used DZ equipment. You are not allowed to use your own rig as they have two pull handles for both instructors in case of emergency. (student screw up!) Also, I wont be able to buy gear with my ex AFFis blessings until I have around 100-200 jumps. It will cost me a lot more which I am not happy about but at least I get to get some experience with a variety of different kit and then hopefully settle on my own canopy in 12 months or so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhastadive 0 #4 June 5, 2008 so your not planning to buy any of your own gear for 12 months? thats kinda crazy, I want to be very comfortable doing these jumps and my tandem harness definitely was far from it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
humanflite 0 #5 June 5, 2008 Quote so your not planning to buy any of your own gear for 12 months? thats kinda crazy, I want to be very comfortable doing these jumps and my tandem harness definitely was far from it. Tandem harness ? I dont see what that has to do with buying a rig?!! Student rigs are ok, just make sure you do the leg and shoulder straps tight. Your instructors (when you start AFF) 'may' be different if and when you complete the course and get your A license, but I doubt it as the general views on DZ.com are that you should use hired gear for a while. The reasons are several. Mainly, so that you can try out a wide range of different canopies and get some 'ok' canopy skills. Also, so that you can get down to a 'suitable' size of canopy that its worth dropping $2k into.. At the end of the day, instructors dont like over eager students.... it makes them worried Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #6 June 5, 2008 Quoteso your not planning to buy any of your own gear for 12 months? thats kinda crazy, I want to be very comfortable doing these jumps and my tandem harness definitely was far from it. Please remember that this is an INTERNATIONAL board and not all countries have the same rules as USPA. Secondly... you'll see many recommendations to buy used (and conservatively sized) for your first rig. You'll also see recommendations to rent gear for a while, so you can try out different canopies, harness/container types, etc. Go here and read Lisa Briggs' articles on choosing new gear. She lays it out very well, both pros and cons.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhastadive 0 #7 June 5, 2008 In my mind, buying new gear and learning to use it isn't an eager thing, its a safety paranoia issue. But sweet =D now I know why would eagerness worry you? ... the AFF certification is at a DZ in north carolina, they offer the whole course for $1300. I don't know about other places around the US but that seems like a steal from some other DZ prices I've looked at Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markovwgti 0 #8 June 5, 2008 got my dream rig...and then some :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdrejhon 8 #9 June 5, 2008 Around here, 50-75 jumps seem to be a common point where you stop renting and jumping your own gear. I was jumping my rig at Jump #59. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #10 June 5, 2008 I still have tons of pics of your dream rig with all sorts of lovely ladies, drinking a beer, dirt diving.... LOL. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #11 June 5, 2008 Quote I still have tons of pics of your dream rig with all sorts of lovely ladies, drinking a beer, dirt diving.... LOL. *waves to Bonnie* My rig's a lucky SOB!!!!!Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #12 June 5, 2008 I haven't been on here for a while. I miss you guys! Back to gear talk. There are so many great rigs on the market right now, it's tough to choose. But take your time and find out the difference of the details and decide what appeals to you the most. Read the manufacturers web sites and find someone in the biz who's brain you can pick. Feel free to pick mine via PM. I still have a few cells left to share. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chrisky 0 #13 June 5, 2008 I know coming from AFF and renting gear seems terribly expensive and you wanna have your own gear like everyone else. But is it really a good idea to shell out quite a bit of money for new gear that you will likely only be jumping for a year or two/100-200 jumps? Try and get a good used rig for that time, then, when you have more experience with gear, you can decide what to get more educated and that will last you longer in your skydiving life. I also asked my DZ back in the day to cut me a deal on rental gear and they did, as it took a long time for me to find a good deal on a used beginners rig.The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open. From the edge you just see more. ... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #14 June 5, 2008 QuoteAround here, 50-75 jumps seem to be a common point where you stop renting and jumping your own gear. I was jumping my rig at Jump #59. At that point, I'd have been within $125 of having paid for my first rig (I later sold the various pieces, so I saved over $1000 over renting for that sort of time). Modernish sufficiently used skydiving gear depreciates about $1/jump for the main and rig until they get old enough that stops. Reserve repacks are about !2.50/month and Cypres depreciation/batteries/time on the inspection cycle about $12/month. Many places rental gear is pushing $25/jump. The math is not hard. Your first rig has to be big and safe. It doesn't have to be something you'll keep for more than a couple years. I made jump #13 or 14 on my own gear. You don't want to go too far in the other direction and buy new either. The average testosterone poisoned skydiver is going to go through 6+ mains and at least one rig before arriving at a size combination they'll be happy with indefinitely. If you buy the first setup brand new either it's going to sit for a while when you want to down size or you're going to eat a lot more than $1/jump selling it. New gear is now pushing $6000. There are lots of really nice nearly new rigs available (a few with under 100 jumps) for $3000-$4000 that are competing with $2000-$3000 gear that has some wear on it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
klingeme 1 #15 June 5, 2008 QuoteSecondly... you'll see many recommendations to buy used (and conservatively sized) for your first rig. You'll also see recommendations to rent gear for a while, so you can try out different canopies, harness/container types, etc. If you called me at UPT (the maker of the Vector H/C), this is the advise I would give you. I do not want to sell you equipment that you will not be happy with in 50 jumps. Rent/borrow gear for your first 50-100 jumps and then, when you have an idea what you will need more long term, think about new (custom) gear. We want you to be happy with your container for more than 100 jumps and you will go through a canopy progression in your first 100 jumps that will change the sizes of canopies you will be jumping significantly from jump 1 to jump 50 or 100. If you have questions, you can call and speak to me at UPT or email me at [email protected]. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #16 June 5, 2008 As others have said, there are a couple of ways of looking at this.. Buy a brand new full student rig... put some jumps on it and then down-size - sell you kit and someone else gets a great bargin.... repeat Buy a nice piece of kit from soneone who took the above approach Continue renting.... Any other options? Write your options down on a piece of paper and assign Pound/Dollar/Euro values to each jump under each condition (Total Cost of Ownership). Do what's best for you. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhastadive 0 #17 June 5, 2008 Awsome stuff guys. I guess Ill wait until after I get my AFF cert to buy some brand new comfy wings. Got it scheduled for August =D the whole course for one week depending on weather. Maybe I'll get lucky. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VincentVL. 0 #18 June 5, 2008 * Javelin Odyssey - articulated - spacer foam - skyhook * Sabre2/Safire2/Pilot main (I've flown none of these btw ) * PD Optimum reserve * Argus AAD (so as you can see, ignoring the AAD, I'm a lemming) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #19 June 5, 2008 Quote * Javelin Odyssey - articulated - spacer foam - skyhook * Sabre2/Safire2/Pilot main (I've flown none of these btw ) * PD Optimum reserve * Argus AAD (so as you can see, ignoring the AAD, I'm a lemming) this is not a BIASED question, but I am wondering : WHY an Optimum ? Why an Argus ? It would be great to hear your rational. tnx ! PS ALL Odysseys are articulated unless you specify otherwise Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #20 June 5, 2008 QuoteWHY an Optimum ? Why not? It's an updated planform and packs smaller for the same size reserve. If I were buying new and they made the Optimum in larger sizes (218), I'd be looking hard at it.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #21 June 5, 2008 QuoteQuoteWHY an Optimum ? Why not? It's an updated planform and packs smaller for the same size reserve. If I were buying new and they made the Optimum in larger sizes (218), I'd be looking hard at it. "Why not" was not an option. Keep in mind, I am not dissing the Optimum - merely wanting to find out why one would choose one for their new rig. I am guessing your answer would look like "it's newer and I can get a bigger size for my container" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #22 June 6, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteWHY an Optimum ? Why not? It's an updated planform and packs smaller for the same size reserve. If I were buying new and they made the Optimum in larger sizes (218), I'd be looking hard at it. "Why not" was not an option. Keep in mind, I am not dissing the Optimum - merely wanting to find out why one would choose one for their new rig. I am guessing your answer would look like "it's newer and I can get a bigger size for my container" I didn't see your post as 'dissing' the Optimum. I gave reasons why I would choose the Optimum over the 'normal' PD-R if it were available in a size appropriate for me.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VincentVL. 0 #23 June 6, 2008 QuoteWHY an Optimum ? Why an Argus ? Why not add "Why a Javelin?" Like I said, I'm a lemming. I follow the masses and the masses say... *About the Javelin: It looks the coolest and has nice standard features. *About the Optimum: It's PD and it's the newest thing you can get so it must be best. Surely it's the best reserve out there? *About the Argus: I don't like the thought of having to ship my Cypres to the manufacturer every 4 years, have expensive battery changes and what not. Argus is cheaper in purchase and maintenance, but I trust it just as much as the Cypres. Plus it has a swoop mode...and even if I'm 5 years and a 1000 jumps away from swooping so hard it would make the AAD fire, I like the thought of it. Oh and it's Belgian so that's a plus. And I'm biased (for no reason what so ever) against the Vigil. Like I said...an uninformed lemming. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
erdnarob 1 #24 June 6, 2008 As mnealtx said, definitely the VECTOR III with SKYHOOK and PD reserve. At the present time, UPT VECTOR is about to make its container no. 47000. No manufacturer in the world has such figure. You can add to your VECTOR III a 3D spacer on the back and hip rings for more confort. Magnet riser cover which is a most recent inovation from UPT VECTOR and is a great improvement too. (UPT VECTOR III president Bill Booth has invented in the seventies the 3 RING release system which is the standard of the world now). Where I am different than mnealtx is for the choice of an AAD. Vigil II seems to me a more advanced technology than main competitors. It offers you 3 modes you can set up (PRO, STUDENT and TANDEM). When you choose a mode, this mode stays on the display all the time when the device is switched on. You can also download the data from the device (provided you have the interface and software). The VIGIL II is equiped with a jump counter too and at INFO you have right away data from the last jump appearing on the display window. And the best of the best, since the device is self testing (CUTTER, ELECTRONICS and BATTERIES) and show it to you on the display, NO MORE SCHEDULED MAINTENANCE which are costly, and time consuming. The Learning curve: well I would say if you order a VECTOR III giving your precise measurements ( follow the advice from UPT VECTOR WEB SITE) it will fit you like a glove and you will fly very natually after few jumps.Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhastadive 0 #25 June 6, 2008 QuoteAs mnealtx said, definitely the VECTOR III with SKYHOOK and PD reserve. At the present time, UPT VECTOR is about to make its container no. 47000. No manufacturer in the world has such figure. You can add to your VECTOR III a 3D spacer on the back and hip rings for more confort. Magnet riser cover which is a most recent inovation from UPT VECTOR and is a great improvement too. (UPT VECTOR III president Bill Booth has invented in the seventies the 3 RING release system which is the standard of the world now). Where I am different than mnealtx is for the choice of an AAD. Vigil II seems to me a more advanced technology than main competitors. It offers you 3 modes you can set up (PRO, STUDENT and TANDEM). When you choose a mode, this mode stays on the display all the time when the device is switched on. You can also download the data from the device (provided you have the interface and software). The VIGIL II is equiped with a jump counter too and at INFO you have right away data from the last jump appearing on the display window. And the best of the best, since the device is self testing (CUTTER, ELECTRONICS and BATTERIES) and show it to you on the display, NO MORE SCHEDULED MAINTENANCE which are costly, and time consuming. The Learning curve: well I would say if you order a VECTOR III giving your precise measurements ( follow the advice from UPT VECTOR WEB SITE) it will fit you like a glove and you will fly very natually after few jumps. you should be a salesperson for vector. I was really hooked on the wings thread, just looking at all the cool looking containers. Would you take a Custom fit vector over a custom fit Wings with similar upgrades that you mentioned for comfort? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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