Looks like 11 of the 12 "alive" miners are in fact dead.

[grue 1]

Godspeed, gentlemen.

The media are gonna look REALLY dumb after this.

cavete terrae.

[Lindercles 0]

link?

[grue 1]

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link?

drudgereport, foxnews, cnn, probably more.

cavete terrae.

[Scoop 0]

Sky News confirming the same RIP

Edited to add: Looks like the worst bit is they told the familys 12/13 were alive giving them false hope

[TrophyHusband 0]

the media isn't going to look dumb, they didn't make it up. they only reported the news that everyone else above ground had.

i'm not trying to place any blame, i'm simply curious about something. why couldn't someone in the beginning put on a scba and walk in at at least find out what is going on down there? i know that you wouldn't make a 4 mile round trip with an scba, but a team of recuers could carry extra tanks down and stage them in such a way that a small team could make it down and back and at least people on the surface would know what they were dealing with in a matter of a few hours? it was 12 hours before anyone even entered the mine.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[NlghtJumper 0]

Im really sorry to hear this.

As for putting on a scuba tank and walking down there. I think if it would have been as easy as that, then they wouldnt have been down there all that long. I dont know much about the situation because I didnt follow the story all that much. Just saying...

A man will do anything for the right woman,
and when that woman destroys him,
that man will become a hunk of meat with the common sense of a rodeo clown! ~ Christopher Titus

[PLFXpert 0]

Of course, I've said a prayer for the families.

I'm curious, on the subject---on NBC news last night, they interviewed a man who spoke about the lives of coal miners. One thing in particular had me curious--he said generations in these families have gone to work in the mines and though some try to get out of it, "the money" lures them back. Does anyone know what these men are compensated, ballpark, for what they do?

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[skymedic 0]

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i'm not trying to place any blame, i'm simply curious about something. why couldn't someone in the beginning put on a scba and walk in at at least find out what is going on down there? i know that you wouldn't make a 4 mile round trip with an scba, but a team of recuers could carry extra tanks down and stage them in such a way that a small team could make it down and back and at least people on the surface would know what they were dealing with in a matter of a few hours? it was 12 hours before anyone even entered the mine.

Have you ever worked with SCBA? It's not quite as easy at such long distances. Even the hour rated bottles are really only good for about 45 minutes with a very healthy person when they are working at capacity. plus carrying extra bottles for both egress and entry, plus monitoring air quality for upper and lower explosive limits, plus due to the explosion monitoring structural stability as they make entry and then egress. It takes time to do all of that...and no reason to risk rescuers lives for a "possible" rescue. I've worked many many hours in SCBA and do not envy miners and mine rescue in the least.

One other thing...there tends to be higher methane levels in coal mines in the winter...hence another reason for the extra safety in reentering the mine.

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[skymedic 0]

What you may think is low is rather high for where they live. Due to massive unemployment in West Virginia...that's the "money" they speak of.

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[mailin 0]

My husbands cousin works in the coal mine in WV - he makes obnoxious amounts of money for the area, upwards of $20, where for an area where a house costs you $16,000 (brand new), its a millionaire salary. But its also a very dirty job - the first day I saw him come home while we were visiting he had to shower outside with the hose before he could come into the house - he was tar black from head to toe.

The reason people can't just throw on a ski mask or whatever and go in there is because of the ridiculously high methane and carbone monoxide levels - making friction by moving rocks can spark an instant fire, and the soot from the coal pretty much turns the area into instant night.

Its a sad situation and I feel very badly for the people left behind. Typically many of the woman in that area grow up knowing that they may not graduate highschool (my mother in law is only 1 of 10 kids to graduate HS so she could go into the army), and will have their first child before 20 and not work - so they have no real way of supporting themselves outside of the home. On their side is the fact that many of the families there are some of the most tight knit families I have ever met, and due to that and their church communities these women will have many people to lean on.

I just hope those poor men didn't suffer.

Jen

Arianna Frances

[skymedic 0]

Rather low carbon dioxide...lots of carbon monoxide relatively speaking that is.

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[mailin 0]

sorry, your correct, it is monoxide.


Jen

Arianna Frances

[PLFXpert 0]

I didn't presume to think "low" or "high" as I have no idea--that's why I'm asking I'm just curious, given the recent incident/story, what people in this day of technology, that put their lives in that situation are compensated. Just curious cat.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[lisamariewillbe 1]

It appears that alot of high risk jobs pay less... from cops, to firefighters to teachers...granted I do believe most in the service profession do the job for reasons other then money...

It is sad that they came to an end like this, what is even more sad is the false hope those families and that town and the U.S. experienced when we thought they survived.

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[PLFXpert 0]

Maybe it's just me, but this scenario sounds similiar to the rationale of paying illegal immigrants here in the south, far less than others to do the same job, but to the immigrant it's far more than they could make in Mexico.

But, I pose the question: Even if $20/hr is a huge amount of money for that area, is it still right to pay them just that, with what is at stake?

Both groups might be grateful for their earnings. But, people in third-world countries are also grateful when a huge American or other industrialized-nation's company comes to do production & set-up shop in their neck-of-the-woods, providing a lot of well-needed jobs, but also in some cases, exposing them to hazardous conditions and polluting the hell out of their natural resources b/c there are no regulations.

Just makes you think---I hope I didn't jsut throw this into speaker's corner.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[lisamariewillbe 1]

Cops in my old town started at 24 a year.... firefighters started at 19 a year.... its the nature of the beast, and 20 a hour in many places is actually good money, I dont blame the company.... we need coal... the men know what they are getting into as some have lost family members in the past... Its a typical family trap sometimes... we follow familiar paths that have already been laid out for us as opposed to reaching out for something more, or different

Sudsy Fist: i don't think i'd ever say this
Sudsy Fist: but you're looking damn sudsydoable in this

[skymedic 0]

Average pay of friends that I know and have trained with have been between 15 to 25...that's with years of experience. BUT you have to understand this is huge money for towns that have virtualy no other industry or jobs. and even then it is huge amounts of money compared to the other jobs there.

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[skymedic 0]

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sorry, your correct, it is monoxide.


Jen

I know...

Wait...I just realized this is a woman telling me I'm right!!! I've gotta show my wife this!!! Maybe she will figure out I CAN be right sometimes.

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[PLFXpert 0]

I think if you re-read my post, or maybe I didn't communicate it well-enough, but I'm not disagreeing with what you've said here.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"But, I pose the question: Even if $20/hr is a huge amount of money for that area, is it still right to pay them just that, with what is at stake?"

Companies will always pay the minimum to their people that they can get away with.

Its the nature of capitalism, socialism doesn't have a particularly good record for mine safety either mind you, I think China has a pretty apalling mine safety record with something like over 3,000 deaths a year there.

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[RhondaLea 3]

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"But, I pose the question: Even if $20/hr is a huge amount of money for that area, is it still right to pay them just that, with what is at stake?"

Companies will always pay the minimum to their people that they can get away with.

I went to college in West Virginia. I think the economy of the state has improved in recent years, but not by much. At the time I was there, however, the overall poverty was appalling. I cried one day leaving the five and dime because I was in line behind a woman in ragged clothing whose feet were bursting out of the seams of her shoes. She was probably no more than 40, but she looked like a crone. She was buying plastic flowers--something pretty for the house--and it just killed me.

Here's some more information on housing costs:

http://www.epodunk.com/cgi-bin/housOverview.php?locIndex=49

It's a lot less expensive than many places, depending on the part of the state one is in. Still, for the risk involved, I don't think $20/hour is that much money.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[PLFXpert 0]

Thank you for that.
I just don't think we should shrug these things off for the simple reason that "it's more money than they could make elsewhere in this partuclar area". There's just a lot more to it than that.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[base428 1]

West Virginia is not the economically depressed area that has apparently been embedded into your minds. Do you believe everything you see on TV or read on dropzone.com?

Coal miners make much better money than $15-20/hour in many areas (especially double/triple overtime). And $16,000 for a new house is absurd! I live about 30 minutes away from the affected mine and the average home price in my area is higher than Pittsburgh, PA or Charleston, WV (as in hundreds of thousands of dollars). The FBI fingerprint center is about 5 miles from my new house. And I work in Congressman Mollohan's building right next to the NASA IV&V center.

As for many women not graduating from high school, I have to disagree. WV has a program called the PROMISE scholarship that pays full college tuition for graduating students. So many students have qualified that funding for scholarships is of concern.

Sure, West Virginia isn't the richest or best dressed state in the USA. But please don't make it sound like we're a third world country.

(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only

[mailin 0]

I should clarify that the 16,000 home is a trailer on half an acre in Shoals, WV on the KY border.

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The FBI fingerprint center is about 5 miles from my new house. And I work in Congressman Mollohan's building right next to the NASA IV&V center.

I seriously doubt with the business you are in you are truely in touch with the mining community and their families.

Quote

WV has a program called the PROMISE scholarship that pays full college tuition for graduating students. So many students have qualified that funding for scholarships is of concern.

This was not the case when my husbands aunt dropped out of HS 15 years ago. Hell, she got married at 14 - thats still a state law in WV isn't it?

Quote

But please don't make it sound like we're a third world country.

Don't get me wrong. I love WV - some of the most down to earth people. I spend 4 days there every Thanksgiving - we farm on his uncles farm and go to church services. It's a very relaxing time. I could spend 4 days skiing in VT and not be as relaxed and have as good a time as I do in WV/KY.


Jen

Arianna Frances

[Remster 24]

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I've worked many many hours in SCBA and do not envy miners and mine rescue in the least.

I was a member of a mine rescue team a few years ago. If you think its as simple as walking in and out of a store to find what you are looking for, you (not you Marc, but in general) you are way off.

Its dark. I mean real dark. If there is a fire, its so dark you will not see your hand right in front of your face. Imagine walking, carrying a 200lbs stretcher with 4 other guys, on very uneven surfaces, with raises (big holes going straight down) and sumps (big holes filled with water) with your eyes completely closed. For a couple of miles sometimes.

By the way, just a side note: a lot of mine rescue teams dont use SCBAs. They use Draegers units with a CO2 absorber and small, high pressure O2 tank. Its a self contained system, pretty neat actually, and has a much much longer range then air tanks.

Remster