Manta, good choice?

[point_code 0]

I will be coming back off of an injury next month (broken foot) and I was considering getting a Manta since they seem to be reaosnably priced. My Sabre I landings are are kinda fast and the openings aren't great. I am 6' 245lb. Do the Manta's land soft? How do they open? I'm not interested in swooping or high performance flying. I'm not in a hurry to get to the ground and I enjoy a leisurely canopy flight.

Thanks for your opinions.

[NWFlyer 2]

Mantas are typically used as student canopies, so yes, they do land soft, and you'd find the canopy ride quite leisurely! You may find it a good choice for some number of jumps to come back after your injury, but perhaps not for the long term.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[parachutist 1]

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I will be coming back off of an injury next month (broken foot) and I was considering getting a Manta since they seem to be reaosnably priced. My Sabre I landings are are kinda fast and the openings aren't great. I am 6' 245lb. Do the Manta's land soft? How do they open? I'm not interested in swooping or high performance flying. I'm not in a hurry to get to the ground and I enjoy a leisurely canopy flight.

Thanks for your opinions.

A ZP Manta 260 would be a good choice, or Sabre2 260. The Manta is more affordable, Sabre2 would be more fun... room to grow into it. Openings would probably be more consistently soft under the Sabre2.

If the Spectre were available in 260 then I'd say that's exactly what you're looking for, but 230 is the largest size listed. The 230 may suit you ok, but I don't know your canopy flying experience or skills. Is that 245 lbs exit weight or body weight?

[point_code 0]

body weight bounces around between 235 and 245lb. depending on how many twinkies I had the week prior.

[parachutist 1]

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body weight bounces around between 235 and 245lb. depending on how many twinkies I had the week prior.

You're about 270 lbs out the door, so I'd say go with a 260 size. That will slow things down for you compared to your current 210 canopy. If you go with the Manta just make sure to specify ZP fabric. It'll give better glide and flare than the F111 fabric and will last longer.

[AggieDave 6]

A Silhoette would be a reasonable choice as well. I think that perhaps some demos would be in order.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[heavydude 0]

There are currently some old Mantas on Classifieds, I believe 288s for about $275 ? Another canopy that works for me exact same height/weight as you is a PD300. I was using Triathlon 260 but it was kind of fast for me, but I have lots less jumps @30 only. PD is F111 but had low number of jumps that I bought. Good thing is that big used canopies seem to be cheaper !

[Fledgling 0]

A PD Navigator is another possible choice.

[Gary73 8]

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There are currently some old Mantas on Classifieds, I believe 288s for about $275 ?

Be aware that a Manta 288 is probably an older F-111 canopy that won't have much of a flare. The newer ZP Mantas are pretty good, though, and are available in sizes up to 320.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan

[Baksteen 84]

I have 40 jumps on a very lightly loaded "older F111 Manta without much of a flare". It's the student gear of my dropzone, so you can guess how many jumps and unintentional water landings those canopies have had to suffer.

Still, they fly great - illustrated by the fact that i simply kept underestimating just how far the canopy could carry me, which led to quite a few "unnecessary" out landings.
There is also the triviality that our instructors feel that it's safe to let students fly the things.
It lands softly - you have to *try* in order to hurt yourself under a (lightly loaded) manta, though it is possible. As to the flarepower, I didn't have any problems with it. I have many "tip-toe" landings under several kinds of wind conditions.

It's my opinion that people in general tend to knock F111 canopies because they're not as "hip" as the Zepo ones (not directed at you specifically, gary).

While the Manta got me down safely and never slammed me, which is all that a newbie can wish for, I have to agree that the Navigator (which also comes in large sizes) is a much sweeter ride.
While still very docile in regard to altitude loss, the canopy is designed to be fun to fly - a turn with 50% brakes vs full flight is quite "exciting". In fact, the only problem I had with the Navigator (240, loaded at approximately 0.8 to 0.9) is it's reluctance to lose altitude.
Once I reached, say, 3500 ft I tended to feel that this jump had been fun, but now I'd like to land, please!

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[riggerrob 558]

Yes, you can buy ragged-out, Mantas made of F-111 fabric for cheap, but you get what you pay for!
Far wiser to buy a modern hybrid (ZP top skin with F-111 bottom skin) like a ZP Manta or PD Navigator, Silhouette, Aerodyne Solo, Icarus whatchamacallit, etc.
The ZP top skin makes them land and last like all ZP canopies, but the F-111 bottom skin makes them easier to pack.

[point_code 0]

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Yes, you can buy ragged-out, Mantas made of F-111 fabric for cheap, but you get what you pay for!
Far wiser to buy a modern hybrid (ZP top skin with F-111 bottom skin) like a ZP Manta or PD Navigator, Silhouette, Aerodyne Solo, Icarus whatchamacallit, etc.
The ZP top skin makes them land and last like all ZP canopies, but the F-111 bottom skin makes them easier to pack.

200 jumps on an f-111 wouldn't be ragged out, would it? I only need it for a season.

[riggerrob 558]

We expect Mantas to last 600 to 800 jumps.

[loch1957 0]

Were they F111 in 1990 ?

Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing.”

[theplummeter 14]

We have 3 F111 Mantas that are the student canopies at the dropzone. Two of them have around 500 jumps and still flare very well, one has about 900 and needs to be retired, although most of the experienced jumpers or instructors can still stand it up with a full flare.

A Pulse might work well for you as well, I had one right before my current canopy. They are fun up high but come to a dead stop - both vertically and horizontally - with the right flare. From the first jump I took on it the Pulse was the easiest flare I have ever experienced, every landing was a slow standup.

[matthewcline 0]

You won't go wrong with the larger Manta.
Since the price is lower than other canopies when your done with it, it could be sold to a DZ after wards for a Student Rigs use with little loss in value.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[Abedy 0]

Much has been said, most of it useful so I dare to jump in with a funny one:
Manta, Manta - it's just a wannabe hot rod
SCNR!

The sky is not the limit. The ground is.

The Society of Skydiving Ducks

[riggerrob 558]

Yes, Mantas were made of F-111 fabric in 1990.
Remember that ZP fabric was introduced by the french in 1988 and PD in 1989.
After that, it took a decade or so before anyone was willing to hang students under ZP fabric.
Now most schools only use canopies that have top skins made of ZP and bottom skins made of F-111.
A ZP top skin makes that canopy fly and last like an all ZP canopy, but the F-111 makes it quicker for packers to squeeze the air out.

[davelepka 4]

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200 jumps on an f-111 wouldn't be ragged out, would it? I only need it for a season

The number of jumps on a canopy is, 9 times out of 10, an estimate. If the canopy has had more than one owner, it's generally a poor estimate.

Seeing as you're coming back from an injury, don't take the chance with an F-111 canopy. Look for a newer Manta or PD Navagator, both are built with a zero-porosity top skin, and will perform much like a full zero-p canpoy, and the number of jumps will generally only effect the line set, which can be inspected and checked against a line trim chart.

It might cost a couple hundred more dollars, but it's well worth it, and you'll get it back on resale. There's not a ton of difference between the price of a Navigator with 600 jumps or 700 jumps (for example), so you can expext to sell it for most of what you paid for it. With an F-111 canopy, you run the risk of jumping the last of the 'life' out it and leaving it worthless. It might take more out of pocket to get the better canopy, but at least you know you can get it back when you're done.

Don't be cheap when buying skydiving gear, especially canopies when coming back from an injury. Think of the cost of re-injuring yourself, and why you want to upsize. You're looking to stack the deck in your favor that you won't re-injure yourself, and upsizing is a point in your favor, while switching to F-111 is a point against you, for a zero sum gain.

[matthewcline 0]

Now you can get a new Manta in all F-111 (type), or a F-111/ZP mix or an all ZP model.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[kenneth21441 0]

Personally I love the Manta.... Learned on that system many years ago... also the Laser 9 and Raven... and MT1.. I like and still own a Manta\... it is a very easy canopy.. good control.... dont expect to be zipping around the dz.. but if you want a good landing it cant be beat.... keep the wing loading at 1 or under and she will last a long time more....
A GOOD PARACHUTE... MANTA.//

Kenneth Potter
FAA Senior Parachute Rigger
Tactical Delivery Instructor (Jeddah, KSA)
FFL Gunsmith