Gender specific issues in skydiving

[Dolph 0]

A statement by Billvon in a threat in Speaker's Corner has made me wonder about what these are, how they manifest themselves and what is generally done about it. Pretty interesting stuff that I really have paid very little thought to, thinking that the deviation within each group is greater than the deviation between the groups.

He mentioned issues such as weight distribution, fall rate and wingload.

I'm pretty ignorant about the gender specific differences - I'm aware of concepts relating to body weight and distribution in general, but not related to differences between the two genders.

Could anyone elaborate a little on this and how it manifests itself in freefall and while piloting the canopy? I'm trying to restrict it to these two topics (skydiving mechanics in essence) and not go into other aspects (medical, social etc.).

Edit: Link to Billvon's post here

[labrys 0]

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I'm pretty ignorant about the gender specific differences - I'm aware of concepts relating to body weight and distribution in general, but not related to differences between the two genders.

Could anyone elaborate a little on this and how it manifests itself in freefall and while piloting the canopy? I'm trying to restrict it to these two topics (skydiving mechanics in essence) and not go into other aspects (medical, social etc.).

One gender specific issue that I'm aware of during canopy flight and landing is depth perception.

Men have evolved with their eyes somewhat closer together than women's on average because the men with better depth perception were better hunters (particularly with cast weapons)

Women have evolved with better peripheral vision than men because they were often in situations (gathering) where seeing danger approach from the side was more important. The average woman's eyes are farther apart than the average man's.

Better depth perception leads to learning landing skills faster for men.

Owned by Remi #?

[Mostly_Harmless 0]

link to his post?

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www.myspace.com/termvelocity

[dharma1976 0]

and there is always worrying about the dreaded ballunder leg strap malfunction

:-P

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[labrys 0]

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link to his post?

link to who's post?

Owned by Remi #?

[NWFlyer 2]

I'm a woman whose height/weight falls closer to the average for men than for women, so I've ended up jumping more with men just because it's easier for me to stay with a group that has similar "natural" fall rates. I am, of course, working on expanding my range, but I don't have the typical "floaty-butt" problems that many women do.

One thing I can think of off the top of my head is gear issues (fit, comfort, etc., particularly if you're not buying new). My rig was built for a man who was around the same height as me, but it wasn't built for someone with breasts. I had to make some modifications to my rig (longer chest strap) to allow me to loosen the chest strap and fly my canopy more comfortably.

[rehmwa 2]

Women don't have the testosterone issues that men seem to have in their first few hundred jumps.

Women have a lot less prostate problems than men.

Edit: Do you want serious answers in terms of subjective opinions on psychology, etc. Or just stuff relating to know physical differences like center of gravity (lower CG and old use of weight vests combined to make it harder for women to fly back when), and hip joint construction (butt up when leg apart more than with men) and stereotypical body shape effects on aerodynamics (hourglass figure is more effective for belly manuverability than wide shoulder/narrow hips, but requires better control).

I've always gone with the same argument that within variation is likely greater than between variation so the discussion is less valuable that comparing different body types. Because, honestly: what percentage of women are really hourglass shaped; honestly, what percentage of men really are broader up top instead having big asses (ever try to find athletic cut dress shirts anymore?).

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[MarkM 0]

Issues:

1> Having to deal with smaller canopies due to smaller weights(a 105lb girl can't jump a 1.0 WL for quite a while off of student status).
2> Being lighter in FF and dealing with those issues(I'm a 150lb guy and have had issues keeping up with people in freeflying).
3> Dealing with the bullshit associated with being a woman in a male dominated sport.

[pilotdave 0]

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Men have evolved with their eyes somewhat closer together than women's on average because the men with better depth perception were better hunters (particularly with cast weapons)

Wouldn't eyes farther apart make depth perception better?

Dave

[Dolph 0]

Hi Rehmwa.

yes, serious answer is what I would like. I was perhaps a bit narrow in my original question, focusing primarily on physical aspects. While these are no doubt interesting, the psychological ones are probably more so.

It's no a question asked just for the hell of it. I'm honestly trying to edu-macate myself a little

[Orange1 0]

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Men have evolved with their eyes somewhat closer together than women's on average because the men with better depth perception were better hunters (particularly with cast weapons)

Wouldn't eyes farther apart make depth perception better?

Dave

Dave - I don't think so - isn't this why predators (eg cats) have eyes close together, prey (buck, whatever) at sides of head?

I found this an interesting comment - as much as I hate anything that relates to gender stereotyping or the possibity thereof - simply because I do struggle with depth perception; i find it very difficult to judge height close to the ground (often resulting in late flares).

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[rehmwa 2]

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Hi Rehmwa.

yes, serious answer is what I would like.

well, then I have to stick with women having fewer prostate issues

at least directly

edit: ha - I wrote "prostrate" the first time. that's a completely different thing

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Dolph 0]

Hah, that's funny!

[wmw999 2,169]

Here's the link. But be careful -- it's in Speaker's Corner .

That said, I've been jumping quite awhile. Most of the issues are subtle; the chest strap one being an exception. People can get jumpsuits custom-made etc. I do find depth perception to be a problem, but I think that's as much a me issue as a woman issue. Most women are more flexible, and have lesser upper body and hand strength; that makes some launched exits different from how some guys prefer to do it (I really really prefer a harness grip).

Women tend to feel like they have to "prove" themselves sometimes. Of course, guys do too.

Also, women don't always metabolize alcohol as efficiently as men, so for the general population it takes less alcohol per pound to get them drunk. Some guys might not see this as a problem of course .

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[labrys 0]

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Wouldn't eyes farther apart make depth perception better?

No, having the eyes farther apart improves peripheral vision and decreases the ability to sense the distance of an object directly ahead.

Owned by Remi #?

[Mostly_Harmless 0]

Thanks.

_________________________________________
www.myspace.com/termvelocity

[rehmwa 2]

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Wouldn't eyes farther apart make depth perception better?

No, having the eyes farther apart improves peripheral vision and decreases the ability to sense the distance of an object directly ahead.

I'd think having eyes farther apart while still pointing directly forward would improve depth perception.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[labrys 0]

The closer the eyes are together, the more overlap in field of vision there is. The overlap in field of vision creates the perception of depth.

The father apart they are, the less the field of vision overlaps and the wider the overall field of vision is.

Edit: This site is more for kids, but it explains well:

http://www.strabismus.org/all_about_strabismus.html#side

Owned by Remi #?

[livendive 8]

I imagine legstraps are less comfortable for men, chest straps less comfortable for women.

Women seem to generally be more flexible, and men generally stronger, both of which have fallrate effects (women can speed up more easily, men can slow down more easily...both good things given average density differences).

Women are generally not as prone to "showing off" and typically make better listeners, thus better students.

I've maintained for awhile now that women seen more naturally suited for both training and "average" skydiving and ought to excel over their male peers. In RW and CRW competitions, I think strength *might* become more of an issue, but I'm just guessing at that (I've never trained for or been in a real competition). I think men will typically have an advantage as TI's, but not so much as AFF-I's.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[jkbernstein 1]

I wonder if this issue is specific to me, or if other female jumpers have experienced this: I have a hard time holding down my front risers.

Part of my problem is that my shoulders are messed up (had two surgeries on the left and am about to have one on the right), but I think that some of the issue may be gender related: In general, women don't tend to have the same upper body strength that men do.

Also, women tend to not be as aggressive in their downsizing, meaning that a chick with lower jump numbers - especially one who is small, like me - is more likely to be jumping a larger canopy with lower wing loading.

So: less upper body strength + lower wing loading = a hard time hanging on front risers. Has anyone else experienced this - or do I just chalk it up to defective joints?

________________________________________________

May the (relative) wind take your troubles away...

[leapdog 0]

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He mentioned issues such as weight distribution, fall rate and wingload.

I'm pretty ignorant about the gender specific differences - I'm aware of concepts relating to body weight and distribution in general, but not related to differences between the two genders.

Could anyone elaborate a little on this and how it manifests itself in freefall and while piloting the canopy? I'm trying to restrict it to these two topics (skydiving mechanics in essence) and not go into other aspects (medical, social etc.).

Fall rate with out the flyers input is determined by suface area, drag, and density of mass. Jump suits control drag, body position (belly or sit) and make up (tall, thin, small wide) control surface area, density of mass is also body make up. A soft person will tend to float more then someone who is pretty cut from working out. Muscle is more dense than fat. Where the acutual differences are don't just reside between men and women it is between each person.

Not too sure how all that effects wing load except density of mass. In a vacuum everything falls the same. A pound of feathers equals a pound of lead, a pound is a pound, but it takes more feathers and less lead for each to weigh a pound. Lead feels heavier because of the density in our atmosphere because of gravity thus wing load slightly higher.

I'm no physics major but I think this is in the right direction.

I'm pretty sure someone willeither dissagree or agree and post here.

Gunnery Sergeant of Marines
"I would like it if I were challenged mentally at my job and not feel like I'm mentally challenged." - Co-worker

[pilotdave 0]

I'm definitely no expert on the subject, but I just don't understand the concept that the closer your eyes are, the better your depth perception will be. From the page:

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At near, there is a greater difference in what the two eyes view as compared to far. Thus, stereopsis is strongest and most important at near distances.

The farther apart your eyes are, the more difference in what your eyes will see. You'd have better depth perception at longer distances.

That page compares eyes on the sides of the head with eyes on the front of the face. Those are totally different because they're not pointed the same way. If your eyes were farther apart but both pointed forward, I can't see why you'd have worse depth perception, except maybe at close range which is probably why we don't have eyes really far apart. But all in all, I doubt men have greater depth perception due to their eyes being closer. But of course I really have no idea what I'm talking about. If you learned it somewhere, I guess it's probably true. I just don't understand it.

Dave

[rehmwa 2]

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Edit: This site is more for kids, but it explains well:

no good, can you dumb it down a bit?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[labrys 0]

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That page compares eyes on the sides of the head with eyes on the front of the face. Those are totally different because they're not pointed the same way. If your eyes were farther apart but both pointed forward, I can't see why you'd have worse depth perception, except maybe at close range which is probably why we don't have eyes really far apart. But all in all, I doubt men have greater depth perception due to their eyes being closer. But of course I really have no idea what I'm talking about. If you learned it somewhere, I guess it's probably true. I just don't understand it.

I'm not an expert either. This isn't the source I had when I first read about the subject and I can't remember the original...it's been years, sorry.

Both of your points make some sense. I guess the understandng I had was that in humans, eyes are indeed placed in front and not laterally, but eyes spaced farther apart will also be more lateral because our faces are curved. My very basic understanding is that the more lateral placement of the eyes is a bigger factor than increased depth perception at greater distances.

Having one's eyes closer together increases depth perception at closer range. The average males eyes are spaced in a manner that's more optimal for useful perception of depth.

At least that's my understanding. I might be wrong.

Edit:

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it might be true that having their eyes farther apart and more lateral might give women better depth perception at greater distances..not sure

But I think men have better depth perception at useful (casting a weapon or landing a canopy) distances.

Owned by Remi #?

[labrys 0]

See the cute bunny?

Oooohh....scary lion!!!!

Owned by Remi #?