Does this deal seem Sketchy?

[tcoogan 0]

I recently responded to a ad in the classifieds for a Mirage G3 with a Stiletto 190, Pd160 reserve, and Cypress for $1790. The ad was featured in the Premeir membership section on the front page, it was up for a couple days but has now been removed.
The seller said he is in Rome Italy and would send me the rig via 2 Day Fed Ex paid by him after he recieved a money order via Western Union. I told him that made me a little nervous so he said I could send half then the rest after I recieved the rig. Any thoughts?
Here is a excerp from the correspondence:
(I have about 20 clients for this rig so I will tell you from the start how I want to make the transaction. If you agree and if you reply me before someone else takes the rig then the mirage is yours.

The price is $1750 and I want to receive it through Western Union Money Transfer. I think you can pay with your credit card if you make the payment online on www.westernunion.com . You will pay the taxes from the payment. I will send you the rig using FedEx Second Day Air so it will take 2 working days for the mirage to arrive at your door and I will pay the shipping taxes. I`m in Italy now so you will receive the rig from Rome, Italy.

The canopy doesn`t have any holes, patches or anything like that. The rig is ready for jumping and in perfect condition. The cypres has never been fired.

If you are ok with my terms then email me your name and adress for the shipping and I will email you my name and adress for the payment...If you feel more confortable just send half of the money first and you will send the remaining half after you receive and inspect the rig. This way is fair for both of us. So you can send only $900 first and $850 after. The price is low because I need to have a quick sell. I need the money pretty fast so I don`t have time to negociate on a higher price.)

[davelepka 4]

The price is too low. Shipping 2nd day air from Italy for a complete rig is well over $100, mayeb closer to $200. I can't see a legitimate seller willing to accept $1600 or $1700 for that rig.

Besides, if he has 20 'clients' for the rig, why would he be willing to accept a 50% down payment.

If not one out of those 20 people are willing to send the money, that should be a clue.

On top of it all, you don't want a Stiletto when you only have 47 jumps.

[bwilling 0]

It's a scam, pure and simple. That's why the ad was removed!

Always use a trusted third party (think KNOWN rigger or DZO) to broker the deal for you. They've all done it these days, and it's the only way that both the buyer and seller are protected.

"If all you ever do is all you ever did, then all you'll ever get is all you ever got."

[IanHarrop 37]

In my opinion.... RUN don't walk away from this one.

What special relationship do you have with this guy that he is going to pass up the other 20 people that have already said they want to buy it? You must be best buddies for that to be true.

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[pilotdave 0]

A few tips... Don't buy from Europe. Talk to your instructors before buying anything. Buy in person if at all possible. If not, buy through somebody reputable, like a rigger. Buy locally... New England is great, ask around at your dropzone to see if anybody has gear for sale that might be appropriate. Chances are you can find someone selling gear right at your DZ. They might not be advertising it, but lots of people have their old rig in the closet that they don't use anymore.

Good deals don't come from Europe... usually they come from people that you get to know, who aren't trying to screw you.

Dave

[jee 0]

This is a classic scam. Don't ever pay by Western Union.
More imoportantly though, with 47 jumps do you intend to jump a fully elliptical canopy?

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

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after he recieved a money order via Western Union.

Dude... check out www.ic3.gov (the FBI's internet fraud site). One of the things they specifically say to watch out for is anything involving Western Union (although usually they request a wire transfer instead of a money order).

Anyway, several aspects of your story (presence of western union, other party in Europe, discussion of "clients", a push to rush the payment out the door) closely resemble a transaction I was involved in about a year ago and it literally screams to me "don't do it".

Look for deals in the US... we have more used gear than the rest of the planet combined anyway.

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[BillyVance 34]

Tell that scam artist he can go fuck himself.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[indyz 1]

With the number of scams going on I've had to make it a personal policy to never buy or sell overseas. It's a shame, because there are some good deals out there, but it just isn't worth the risk to me.

[VTmotoMike08 0]

Ya know, I saw that deal too and thought the price was way too good to be true, so I didn't respond. He was a little smoother than some other scammers but I knew it would come out.

[Fast 0]

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This is a classic scam. Don't ever pay by Western Union.
More imoportantly though, with 47 jumps do you intend to jump a fully elliptical canopy?

Stay the fuck away from western union, all that is going to happen is you are going to lose your money.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[Acoisa 0]

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Good deals don't come from Europe...

I agree that this is definitely a scam, especially if a western union transfer is involved.

But.. Good deals can come from europe! Thats where my rig is from..

We aren't all evil

Mike

[ladyhawke 0]

OMG I WAS IN CONTACT WITH THAT SAME PERSON. SAME EXACT STORY EXCEPT HE WAS IN LONDON WHEN HE TALKED WITH ME. IT'S A SCAM! STAY AWAY! BUYER BEWARE! DON'T BUY IT! HE'S ! A VERY BAD PERSON! BAD! BAD!

"It is our choices that show what we truly are far more than our abilities." - A. Dumbledore

[pilotdave 0]

Not saying europeans shouldn't buy from europe. Just saying that it's very unlikely that an american is going to find a good deal in europe when you take into account shipping and whatever other fees that are involved. Skydiving gear is generally more expensive in europe. Makes no sense for a european to try to sell a rig in the US for a low price when he can probably get a lot more for the same rig in europe.

Dave

[BillyVance 34]

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Not saying europeans shouldn't buy from europe. Just saying that it's very unlikely that an american is going to find a good deal in europe when you take into account shipping and whatever other fees that are involved. Skydiving gear is generally more expensive in europe. Makes no sense for a european to try to sell a rig in the US for a low price when he can probably get a lot more for the same rig in europe.

Dave

And aren't there some European-made gear not TSO'ed in the US?

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[kelpdiver 2]

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Not saying europeans shouldn't buy from europe. Just saying that it's very unlikely that an american is going to find a good deal in europe when you take into account shipping and whatever other fees that are involved. Skydiving gear is generally more expensive in europe. Makes no sense for a european to try to sell a rig in the US for a low price when he can probably get a lot more for the same rig in europe.

Doubly so with the state of the dollar to the Euro. That rig would be less than 1300 Euros, and I believe that would only get you a canopy there.

[lilchief 0]

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Skydiving gear is generally more expensive in europe.

Dave

You're damn right! I save some 25% when ordering from the US, and that includes S%H + US taxes, but not my countrys taxes =D

I consider my self criminal...how lovely har-harr

"Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return." - Da Vinci
www.lilchief.no

[dragon2 0]

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A few tips... Don't buy from Europe.

Good deals don't come from Europe... usually they come from people that you get to know, who aren't trying to screw you.

That's a load of $%%^* ya know. I sell some stuff to the States every now and then, although granted the dollar-euro is now way more in favor of me buying FROM the States. But man are you guys paranoid or something??? The civilised world doesn't end at your borders

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[kelpdiver 2]

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A few tips... Don't buy from Europe.

Good deals don't come from Europe... usually they come from people that you get to know, who aren't trying to screw you.

That's a load of $%%^* ya know. I sell some stuff to the States every now and then, although granted the dollar-euro is now way more in favor of me buying FROM the States. But man are you guys paranoid or something??? The civilised world doesn't end at your borders

He wasn't disparaging Europeans. The Euro and the distance factor just makes it very unlikely to be a good, informed deal. It's always easier to deal locally, and certainly as a seller I'm going to favor a deal where I don't have to ship it away. Being able to meet with the buyer, allow a test jump, and take the money in the same day is worth 5-10%.

[virgin-burner 1]

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Not saying europeans shouldn't buy from europe. Just saying that it's very unlikely that an american is going to find a good deal in europe when you take into account shipping and whatever other fees that are involved. Skydiving gear is generally more expensive in europe. Makes no sense for a european to try to sell a rig in the US for a low price when he can probably get a lot more for the same rig in europe.

Doubly so with the state of the dollar to the Euro. That rig would be less than 1300 Euros, and I believe that would only get you a canopy there.

yes, and a cheap canopy even if something like that exists.. well, new one at least!

Edited to add: i'm european, and i would have liked to buy in the US. because the prices there are so much better..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[dragon2 0]

Meh, luckily not all my buyers think so, it is very possible to find a good deal on something here even with currencies being what they are and with shipping, mostly for special stuff like Lightnings, or main canopies that are harder to sell here due to canopy rules, like 135-120s.

But i really mean the paranoid thing, I get that sometimes when I want to buy something too. Ooooh foreign, oooh bad. Sigh.

And you Americans, would it hurt you to take a stab at converting currencies yourself every once in a while, I'm not gonna take an offer like less number-of-dollars than number-of-euros


Yeah, most of you do appear to think very nationalistic

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[dragon2 0]

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Quote

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A few tips... Don't buy from Europe.

Good deals don't come from Europe... usually they come from people that you get to know, who aren't trying to screw you.

That's a load of $%%^* ya know. I sell some stuff to the States every now and then, although granted the dollar-euro is now way more in favor of me buying FROM the States. But man are you guys paranoid or something??? The civilised world doesn't end at your borders

He wasn't disparaging Europeans.

Not disparaging? Now English is not my first language, but I read that as "Europeans are trying to screw you". Which is offending to me.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[skinnyshrek 0]

So, with the dollar at about $2 to the english pound. What deals, or what is cheaper in Europe? Originally from the Uk, i have never seen anything cheaper when it comes to buying skydiving equipment. What has changed?

http://www.skydivethefarm.com

do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM?

[pilotdave 0]

Ha. That's not what I meant at all.

What I was saying was that the best deals often come from friends. I've seen a lot of new jumpers get great deals on rigs locally. One jumper is upgrading, another comes along looking to buy. I've seen some deals made between 3 jumpers. For example, one decided to buy a brand new canopy. He offered his old canopy, a spectre 150 in great shape, to another jumper looking to downsize from a 170, at a great price ($800), far below market value. A third new jumper comes along that is looking to buy a 170. Guess what that 170 sold for. $800. And money didn't change hands until everybody was happy. Whole deal worked out great. Saw another deal sort of like that recently with rigs. You're not going to find opportunities like that online.

My point was that it's best to ask around locally before shopping online. And then when you shop online, try to find something close by first, so you can buy it in person if at all possible.

I'm not suggesting that Europeans are all trying to screw Americans. I'm saying that the chances are that he will not find a good deal on a rig from europe, and it's more difficult to buy a rig from europe. I personally skip all ads from outside the US when I'm looking through the classifieds. It's not because I hate europe (or canada), it's because I don't want to deal with that hassle. And there ARE hassles... like one guy I know that got a brand new rig CUT open at customs, right through the reserve. That'd suck on a used rig, huh?

Dave

[kelpdiver 2]

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But i really mean the paranoid thing, I get that sometimes when I want to buy something too. Ooooh foreign, oooh bad. Sigh.

And you Americans, would it hurt you to take a stab at converting currencies yourself every once in a while, I'm not gonna take an offer like less number-of-dollars than number-of-euros

If converting currencies is no big deal, why did the EU adopt the Euro? I suspect your citizens are just as lazy with math. Up until recently, the pound was the only currency I can recall that had a higher value per unit than the USD.

There's no question that foreign transactions are riskier. US laws don't protect buyers in them, and while for you it may be a simple hour drive across the border, it's an 8 hour plane flight for me. "Foreign" means something different when there's an ocean separating the countries.