Vigil fire today

[piisfish 135]

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If you are talking about the C130's in Thialand I'm pretty sure the situation was the Cypres1's froze up and needed to be sent back, the Cypres2's kept right on working and the Vigil's all fired. I do not recall and can not find any info that a Cypres1 fired on the plane there.

at the last Thai Skydive and Seafood Boogie, at least 1 Cypres1 fired...

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[USPA 0]

This isn't a Vigil problem, Cypres can also fire in this situation (happend in The Netherlands with some club rigs only 3-4 years ago among others). It's simply a case of RTFM.

The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die...

[benpat 0]

So let me get thias rightr..Y0u have to close the doors on your vehicle in the right order,put your tongue on the right side of your mouth to save your life ......WTF.....Cypres rules....

[Grumpy 5]

If the AAD thought it was at 750 ft/78mph but hadn’t seen a normal flight pattern leading up to that point (time on ground, slow ascent (within predefined limits), fast descent (within predefined limits)) then it shouldn’t have fired.
This appears to be what happened in Thailand. Cypres realised that situation was not something it had been programmed to deal with so rather than just punting a reserve into an unknown situation it left the skydivers to deal with it. Vigil didn’t know what was going on (or perhaps it thought it knew what was going on in which case, it quite clearly thought wrong) and punched out a reserve.
Any back up device should only interfere in the face of compelling evidence that it’s intervention is required. If it’s not sure, by default, it should do nothing.
Just my 2c

[Fast 0]

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Any back up device should only interfere in the face of compelling evidence that it’s intervention is required. If it’s not sure, by default, it should do nothing.
Just my 2c

I agree and so does Airtec/SSK. The vigil people don't. That is why I won't buy a vigil.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[wardo 0]

This is an email from vigil:

I just read your email regarding your Vigil that fired while riding in the car. I am sorry to hear this happened to you, however as you know , the Vigil reacts much quicker to pressure changes than any other A.A.D. on the market. It only measures a pressure change, such as opening a window , or slamming a trunk. This would cause the unit to exceed the firing parameters.

The unit becomes operational once you exceed 150 feet above or below takeoff level. A moving vehicle can exceed this pressure variation, even while traveling on level ground.

Also, unless you are in a pressurized aircraft, they are not as airtight as a car. This is why the manual instructs you to turn the unit off before traveling in a car.

The reason the Vigil reacts so quickly, is to save lives in the event of a low cutaway, which has happened in the past. The downside to this, is that you must remember to turn the unit off before traveling in a closed vehicle-car, bus, train, due to the possible air pressure variation.

[reddn 0]

wardo,

you said it was on 'student' right?

vigil website: STUDENT Mode
The Vigil® activates at 317 meters (1040 Ft)

if the freefall speed is equal or superior than 20m/sec. (72km/h - 45 mph)


so, if its a 'standard day' at 29.92 inHg, to get the the activation altitude, you need to get it to 28.855 inHg which is a PSI change of -.543 psi

i believe if you start going down the road, either make a change, window up or down, or ahve the windows down and get behind a tractor trailers 'burble' the pressure could spike(negitave pressure) to activate it then the pressure equillizes, and it goes off

kind of the same thing when the airplane is climbing with the door open, and you stick your altimeter out of the door, it will read a lower altitude(due to the build up of pressure of the air going around the altimeter outside of the airframe)


... does it help any?

-thomas

[wardo 0]

Yeah, i get how the condition could be created, but i thought that the vigil would monitor the climb to altitude as a check to know that it was going on a real skydive. Like with my VISO. I can have it on in the car and it gets all different readings but it never logs any of it as a jump.

Vigil activates at 150ft but doesnt start its magic till you jump out. It recalcullates every eigth of a second, i think, so its altitude/speed at that single moment. So when it was in my car, it was activated, and for an 8th of the second, the conditions were created where it thought i was at an altitude <1040 at a speed >78?. I wouldnt matter if it's previous reading, an eigth of a second before, was 8,000ft at 20 mph.

I would love to see my graph though. So i can tell what "altitude" i got out at and how fast i was going and how close to 1040 it fired.

[airtwardo 6]

Got my A-license stamp today, did my 26th jump..

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Your profile lists rigger examiner?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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[wardo 0]

Yeah fixed that, and the student speed for activation is 45mph not 78

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

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I've seen two cypres's fire when trunk lids were slammed shut.

I've heard of a lot of different cypres "misfires", all of which have resulted in the conclusion that the cypres operated according to design. This is a new one on me! I'm curious, when did these occur? Was it in the early cypres days, or more recent? Do you have any knowledge of Airtec working a solution to that problem?

Given that the cypres has an altitude below which it does not fire (300 ft?) and given that I believe it has to think you've been falling for some amount of time (1 or 2 seconds?) prior to hitting 750 ft or it will not fire, a slammed car door seems like too brief of an event to trigger it. Especially since it would fool the pressure sensor into thinking it was BELOW 0' AGL.

As a rigger, I'm very interested in any details you can provide.

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[sundevil777 94]

I totally agree that a modern AAD should be able to realize that it has been on the ground for a long time. At least the Cypres (old and new) were smart enough to know that the pressurization of a plane before takeoff can't represent a situation needing an activation. It matters not that the vigil manual has a warning about 150 ft, its programmers should and could have done better to give it wisdom.

Also, modern cars are not at all sealed. Hondas, for example have a vent of about 20 sq.in. at the rear/side corner of the vehicle (trunk) The vent is covered with a super light weight film so that it acts like a one way valve. Air can go out very easily, but the film prevents it from coming in so easily. The vent is back there to encourage vent air from the front dash outlets to flow through the vehicle to the back. Although that vent may not be big enough to prevent significant pressure spikes when a trunk is closed, the AAD should, and can be smart enough to know the difference between that and a jump.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[skysurfcam 0]

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I'm curious, when did these occur?

World Meet, Corowa 99. Taxi boot(trunk) is slammed shut, simultaneously taxi's car phone rings. Donk, 2 reserve pilot chutes launch.

Toogolawah, Qld, post Equinox bogie, 1998(ish) visiting o/s jumper throws rig in hire car to go home to airport, slams boot (trunk). Donk.

2001, Dubbo, NSW. Civvie on "observer ride" in co pilots seat of skyvan , wearing Cypres equipped Jav. Gets out of seat trailing reserve pilot chute. Reports "thud" as pilot "pitched up" for landing, approx 400'. Pilot liked to land by pitching up on final, then dive and use the "flying body" of the 'van to mush on in ground effect.

Just stuff I've seen.

C.

C.

Brother Wayward's rule of the day...
"Never ever ever go skydiving without going parachuting immediately afterwards."
100% PURE ADRENALENS

[Jumpah 0]

Nope...just recommended that we shut it off when you are done, just like a car, iPod, TV, etc...

[riggerrob 561]

Funny!

I was under the impression that you had to "climb" a Cypres 1 1500 feet - above its "zero altitude" - before it would arm, much less fire.
Remind me to re-read that page in the Cypres 1 manual to get exact numbers.

As for the Cypres firing in the taxi, I suspect that it was a problem related to the radio transmitter built into the cell phone.
If you remember, early Cypri suffered from accidental firings when they were too close to radio transmitters. A series of electromagnetic shields eventually solved that problem.