"The Most Tandem Jumps in 24 Hours"

[hallux 0]

no one said to deceive them. But I dont harp on it. Its skydiving, its dangerous, it says so in the waiver, on the harness, and in everything you've ever heard growing up. If they ask how many people die I tell them. If they ask how many people get hurt i tell them as honestly as i can. They know its dangerous...thats why most of them are there. they want to say they've done it.

[lippy 776]

Looks like the original post is gonezo. Are people actually seriously talking about doing a similar record attempt with actual first-timers? IMHO that's unfair to the student (or passenger, whatever the hell you wanna call them) and irresponsible.

I got nuthin

[billvon 2,434]

>no one said to deceive them. But I dont harp on it.

Nor do I. But presenting it as a fun, safe ride _is_ deceiving them. Every first jumper I jump with gets the same warning, something like "skydiving is a dangerous sport. You can be injured or killed. To help prevent that, you have to . . . . (insert discipline-appropriate advice here)"

[hallux 0]

theres a fun ad lib

"skydiving is a dangerous sport. You can be injured or killed. To help prevent that, you have to . . . . dance like a chicken and bark like a dog.

[diablopilot 2]

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>Seems like all you want to do is talk to them about how dangerous it is
>so that you look like some cool instructor guy.

I talk to them about how dangerous it is because it IS dangerous and they deserve to know. Deceiving them about the danger is unethical and morally wrong.

Thanks for that Bill.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[tetra316 0]

JP you don't seriously believe that every tandem passenger/student is a student and the jump should be treated like a steping stone training jump???? Maybe in an ideal world but we'll never get there I have very few (500) tandems compared to some of you but I believe you have to feel out the student as to what THEY want out of the jump, not what YOU want to give them. Of course if they show the slightest interest yes you should do your best to treat them like a student. However, as was mentioned, and speaking from experience most 60 year grandmas and a large portion of the rest, simply view the skydive as a fun thing to do, an item to check off their list before they kick the bucket. Nothing wrong with that, as long as they are aware of the dangers. And I don't think anyone here was advocating downplaying the dangerous part. Simply that it is unrealistic to treat everyone as an actual student, there to learn how to skydive and continue on. Yes you can do what you can to educate them but as to training them, probably not unless they want to be trained. Otherwise to force the training info on them, you are simply wasting their time and yours if they are not interested.

[hallux 0]

well put tetra. Dead on correct.

[flydog 0]

I treat every tandem as a student. I have had most that didn't want to pay attention to altitude and pull actually do a great job. I don't put a lot of stress on them. I tell them that if they do it its a bonus but if not I still have a vested interest in getting th parachute open. Many have come back and continued. They started with the preconcieved notion that they would be incapable of anything more than being a passenger. When they actually took part they cahnged their mindset to that of, I can actually do this.

As far as the 60 year old grandma. I had one a few years ago. She came out because her brother had been into skydiving in the 60's. She was going to make one jump and see what he had talked about for all those years. I treated this 66 year old lady like a student. now 70 or 80 jumps later she is still at it.

Don't stereotype your tandems by what you see. Treat them as a student and let them decide. It doesn't take any more effort on the instructors part and opens up a world of possibilities for them.

[tetra316 0]

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I treat every tandem as a student. I have had most that didn't want to pay attention to altitude and pull actually do a great job. I don't put a lot of stress on them. I tell them that if they do it its a bonus but if not I still have a vested interest in getting th parachute open. Many have come back and continued. They started with the preconcieved notion that they would be incapable of anything more than being a passenger. When they actually took part they cahnged their mindset to that of, I can actually do this.

As far as the 60 year old grandma. I had one a few years ago. She came out because her brother had been into skydiving in the 60's. She was going to make one jump and see what he had talked about for all those years. I treated this 66 year old lady like a student. now 70 or 80 jumps later she is still at it.

Don't stereotype your tandems by what you see. Treat them as a student and let them decide. It doesn't take any more effort on the instructors part and opens up a world of possibilities for them.

Exactly what I said:

I believe you have to feel out the student as to what THEY want out of the jump, not what YOU want to give them. Of course if they show the slightest interest yes you should do your best to treat them like a student.

[peek 20]

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I believe you have a over inflated sense of self.

Actually he doesn't, but you would need to know JP personally to know that. He simply has some strong feelings on this subject.

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What you are saying is that you force them to be students.

Understanding your student is key to this whole process. JP and I assume the student wants to learn, and if it makes them too nervous or they have doubts, we just go with what works for them.

Other tandem instructors assume it is a carnival ride, and therefore, it is.

You see, a lot of this has to do with trying to overcome the prevailing attitude that a tandem jump is a carnival ride. So many tandem jumps have been done as carnival rides that a tandem student is likely to think that is all there is to it.

Think of all the prospective students that have watched their friend's carnival ride tandem on video. They have no idea that tandem jumping can be much more.

Sometimes we need to do a little bit of work and educate them that it can be more than that. I can't tell you how many tandem students of mine that have been amazed (and delighted) that they are allowed to do a lot on the jump, especially compared to what their friend told them they did on theirs.

Tom Noonan, Tandem Director at Strong Enterprises, tells the story of why he continued to skydive. Because his instructor's training on his first jump, (a tandem), gave him the confidence that he could do the things necessary to continue.

I hope this explains JP's attitude from a different perspective.

[hallux 0]

it explains it.

I feel like most people that are going to skydive are going to skydive whether their first jump was a carnival ride or an instructional jump. If it appeals to them they will come back. Mine was a carnival ride but I knew before we got out of the plane that I was coming back to learn more. To tell the truth I think alot of people come back because they see the social interaction we have with each other and want to become a part of that fun and unique environment.

[diablopilot 2]

Well said Gary.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[riggerrob 558]

Good point.
It is important for students/first-timers to see that there is something between first jump and tandem instructor, which is why I love having Meagan and Kat and Sandra on the plane - even if they are only fun-jumping - because they are positive role models for junior jumpers.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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Good point.
It is important for students/first-timers to see that there is something between first jump and tandem instructor, which is why I love having Meagan and Kat and Sandra on the plane - even if they are only fun-jumping - because they are positive role models for junior jumpers.

There are other reasons to love having Meagan, Kat and Sandra on the plane.