Sabre II & Spectre

[pre7117 0]

Just wondering if anyone has flown both these & if there is a major difference in between them.

HELLFISH 429
POPS 11113

[BoilingMidnight 0]

Um...your home page lists your main canopy as a Spectre.

"Iþ ik qiþa izwis, ni andstandan allis þamma unseljin."

[pre7117 0]

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Um...your home page lists your main canopy as a Spectre.

And??

HELLFISH 429
POPS 11113

[billvon 2,417]

> Just wondering if anyone has flown both these & if there is a major
>difference in between them.

Yes, and yes, there is a big difference between them.

[pre7117 0]

Thanks Bill, Could you be more specific about your answer. I have a Spectre at this time and wanted to go to a Sabre II. Will this be a major change or a noticeable change. Any help would be apprciatted, Thanks

HELLFISH 429
POPS 11113

[darkwing 4]

I have flown them both, with about 600 on a spectre, and about a dozen on a Sabre2. About 200 on another canopy almost always put in the same category as a Sabre2, the Pilot.

The Sabre2-class canopies are a lot different than the Spectre. The quick one-word distinction is "zoominess." Spectres are very nice canopies, but they are in a lower performance category. Both canopies have strong followings, and should be considered on their individual merits, rather than what is "better"-- which is only defined by what you need/want.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[JFM 0]

according to PD:

[/url]http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/Spectre-Flight-Char.pdf[url]

[pilotdave 0]

Single biggest difference I noticed between them was the flare. Powerful flare made the sabre2 much easier for me to land. I was ready to buy a spectre after putting 17 jumps on a demo. Decided to demo a sabre2 just to try it... after 2 jumps, my mind was made up to buy the sabre2. Other people have had the opposite reaction after flying both. Only way to know which you'd like more is to try them both.

Dave

[Derekbox 0]

You are much better of demo'ing the canopy you want in *the same size* and see for yourself. Everybody wants something from there canopies, for some its an opening, for some its the glide, for some the swoop, for some the landing. No one can tell you what you want, make the decision for yourself.

The reason I say same size btw, is so you can get a direct comparison of the canopies. Downsizing and demoing, besides being risky, also is misleading because of the change in overall flight characteristics due to wingloading,line length, etc.
D

[fcajump 153]

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Just wondering if anyone has flown both these & if there is a major difference in between them.

~500 on a Spectre 230 (~1.1 wl)
~50 on Sabre 210, 230 and 260's

Yes they are faiirly different fliers.

As most of what I do (and prepare for) are demo's, I find the Spectre more flexible for what I need. It can be zippy(ish) or very slow. Mostly it is STABLE.

The Sabre II is a bit zippier and responds differently.

At my wing loading, I am certainly not pushing either. And I would say that I do not have enough jumps on the Sabre to provide you a better opinion that others here.

I like them both, but for focusing on smaller area landings in a wide range of wind/temp conditions, I would buy the Spectre again.

JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[BillyVance 34]

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them both, but for focusing on smaller area landings in a wide range of wind/temp conditions, I would buy the Spectre again.

What he said. Also I would go with the Spectre over the Sabre2 especially if you're a newer jumper.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[pre7117 0]

Thanks for all the input on this. I have been jumping a Spectre 210. I have about 300 jumps on it and tried a Sabre II 170 last weekend and found it turned faster and had better response. The landing was a bit faster but not as fast as I thought it would be. With my Spectre it feels loose and sluggish, but the Sabre was quicker and I felt that I had better control. I will be making a few more jumps and hope that all my landings where as good or better. I dont feel right about going from a 210 to a 170 but looks like the Sabre is a very good overall canopy that is very landable with a great flare.

HELLFISH 429
POPS 11113

[BillyVance 34]

That's all good. You seem to have the jump numbers to support going to a Sabre2. While it does respond better than the bigger Spectre, an equal size Spectre can be kinder to you if you screw up the landing.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[pre7117 0]

I was thinking about that and called Mirage and they told me a 170 Spectre will be too loose. has anyone tried this and how loose is it?

HELLFISH 429
POPS 11113

[BillyVance 34]

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I was thinking about that and called Mirage and they told me a 170 Spectre will be too loose. has anyone tried this and how loose is it?

What's the main pack tray's cubic inch capacity and what's the 170's pack size?

I think it would be okay, you just shorten the closing loop to make up the difference, if you shorten it as far as you can and it's still loose, then you have a problem.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[pre7117 0]

I think I might have to get one and try and see how loose it is.

HELLFISH 429
POPS 11113

[BillyVance 34]

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I think I might have to get one and try and see how loose it is.

Yeah, you should be able to get a demo.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[ripcord4 0]

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I was thinking about that and called Mirage and they told me a 170 Spectre will be too loose. has anyone tried this and how loose is it?

Sure, go ahead and ignore the manufacturer's recommendation.

[pre7117 0]

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I was thinking about that and called Mirage and they told me a 170 Spectre will be too loose. has anyone tried this and how loose is it?

Sure, go ahead and ignore the manufacturer's recommendation.

I was not told told it cant be used, I was told that the fit is loose and depending on the container and how much it has stretched. They say it can be put in but I would have to see how it fits mine.

HELLFISH 429
POPS 11113

[jasonRose 0]

Get a velocity 90 don't wast your money on a Sabre II.

Some day I will have the best staff in the world!!!

[jee 0]

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I was thinking about that and called Mirage and they told me a 170 Spectre will be too loose. has anyone tried this and how loose is it?

Sure, go ahead and ignore the manufacturer's recommendation.

Why do you "high time" skydivers leave such antagonistic remarks? Give the guy some slack man. The guy is asking for some help. Your comment ripcord4 clearly was meant to antagonize or at the very least was a belittlement. Why?

[pwln 0]

Jee, It seems to me that the op has already asked the manufacturer and he did not like the answer that they gave him. So lets go and fish for the right answer on the internet.

My container was made for 475 cubic inches (Main), does that mean I could put a canopy with a pack volume of 300 or 750 in it? Maybe, But I really don't want to try it.

The canopy I use is a little small for the container, I just don't pack it as small as I could. If I did it would only take up the center of my bag.

Try it, if it works for you (him) great.

[jee 0]

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Jee, It seems to me that the op has already asked the manufacturer and he did not like the answer that they gave him. So lets go and fish for the right answer on the internet.

My container was made for 475 cubic inches (Main), does that mean I could put a canopy with a pack volume of 300 or 750 in it? Maybe, But I really don't want to try it.

The canopy I use is a little small for the container, I just don't pack it as small as I could. If I did it would only take up the center of my bag.

Try it, if it works for you (him) great.

What's wrong with an answer like this posted by darkwing on a different thread:

Re: [pre7117] MIRAGEG3 & SPECTRE 170 - NEW [In reply to] Quote | Reply

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I expect it will go in easily, but not dangerously so. Note though that even different canopies of the SAME model and size can have several percent variation in pack volume.


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[BillyVance 34]

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Jee, It seems to me that the op has already asked the manufacturer and he did not like the answer that they gave him. So lets go and fish for the right answer on the internet.

My container was made for 475 cubic inches (Main), does that mean I could put a canopy with a pack volume of 300 or 750 in it? Maybe, But I really don't want to try it.

The canopy I use is a little small for the container, I just don't pack it as small as I could. If I did it would only take up the center of my bag.

Try it, if it works for you (him) great.

What's wrong with an answer like this posted by darkwing on a different thread:

Re: [pre7117] MIRAGEG3 & SPECTRE 170 - NEW [In reply to] Quote | Reply

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I expect it will go in easily, but not dangerously so. Note though that even different canopies of the SAME model and size can have several percent variation in pack volume.


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And take into account that sometimes how tightly a canopy is packed correlates to how well it opens. If I pack it very loosely, I could expect a pretty quick opening. If the bag is loose in the pack tray, it might swing around a bit and give you line twists on deployment. What you DON'T WANT is a pack job with the closing pin loose to the point you can actually move it in the loop without much effort. That's like asking for it to come open at the wrong time.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[ripcord4 0]

Why do you "high time" skydivers leave such antagonistic remarks? Give the guy some slack man. The guy is asking for some help. Your comment ripcord4 clearly was meant to antagonize or at the very least was a belittlement. Why?