popsjumper 2 #51 June 8, 2009 Thanks...makes sense in a way. Getting it unwrapped from the riser would seem to be harder and more likely a problem to me, but you do have a point there. Thanks again.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fast 0 #52 June 8, 2009 QuoteThanks...makes sense in a way. Getting it unwrapped from the riser would seem to be harder and more likely a problem to me, but you do have a point there. Thanks again. No reason to unwrap it from the risers though, it's gonna leave with them if you cut away. In regards to the reserve comment about not jumping if you are unsure if your reserve is going to work... That's just non-sense. Reserves don't always work, it's just how it is. I have a lot of rears only landings, albeit none with the brakes stowed, but I am pretty sure I could work that out too. I trust that more than an unknown factor of "will my reserve deploy right today." There is another thread going on somewhere here where they talk about the fact that, some malfunctions are just bad luck. I would hate for it to be my day to have one of those on my reserve.~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brettski74 0 #53 June 8, 2009 QuoteQuoteIsn't the fastest was to make an avoidance turn on opening by using the rear risers, not the fronts? Yes. The rear risers are generally far more effective and less likely to cause malfunctions when used during opening. Two reasons why rears are better: rear riser turns tend to give greater change in direction for a given amount of input, whereas front riser turns give greater loss of altitude for a given amount of input. try to do a front riser turn with your brakes stowed. On every canopy I've flown thus far, pulling down on a front riser with the brakes stowed does nothing to change my heading. I can't say this is true for every canopy design, but if you haven't tried this to see how you canopy responds to such an input and you're thinking of using it in an emergency situation, maybe you should try it out first and see how it responds. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sletzer 3 #54 June 8, 2009 Plus, unless I'm mistaken, front riser turns make you pick up speed faster..... the last thing I'd want to do is speed up while I'm close to smashing into someone. Just a thought.... Interesting thread.I will be kissing hands and shaking babies all afternoon. Thanks for all your support! *bows* SCS #8251 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdrejhon 8 #55 June 9, 2009 I had this situation of a brake being stuck, on the very same jump I flew into a dust devil and got knocked around. (Perris, at 1700 feet -- and I looked back, to see the tall column of dust.) __ Edit -- I just thought of a new method to re-stow a brake line. For TruLock toggles, one can pull down the line with one hand, hold it down, then poke the metal stick on the toggle through the loop in the steering line below the toggle stop ring. That'd pin it in place to make it fly straight, in a "makeshift restow". Then hold it in place while steering with rears. Has anyone ever tried that? I'd think it'd be safer than taking wraps around hands. [Warning, the content of this paragraph is NOT appropriate for the original poster, this is a reply to others who have mentioned various techniques of restowing excess line] FWIW, I do fly a 170 at 1.15WL, so I'd probably land a stuck line after practice flares, if it was fully controllable that way. That's just me and my canopy, and I've landed on my rears before. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #56 June 9, 2009 Quote No reason to unwrap it from the risers though, it's gonna leave with them if you cut away. True enough and obvious for a cutaway situation. Yet there's still the situation where the locked-up brake line comes undone, or breaks when you are trying to land it. You can probably bet it would happen at the least opportune time, too. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
erdnarob 1 #57 June 9, 2009 It happens to me with a Katana. Fortunately the knot was high enough (caught on the top channel for the steering line) and the canopy was flying straight. I decided to land it that way by using the toggles. I did some try way before landing and landed sliding in the grass OK. When pulling on my right toggles (the one with the knot) by doing so I was pulling actually on the right rear riser. A good advice, double check your brake set up.Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firstime 0 #58 June 11, 2009 How do you know you have a perfectly good reserve? Yup good point???? how do you know your steering link is gonna break while driving on the freeway. how do you know if a wire will burn in your home and set your house on fire..yup another good point... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brettski74 0 #59 June 11, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteI would chop it and practice flares on my reserve[Wink] Seriously though why risk it when you got a perfectly good reserve waiting to be deployed? How do you know you have a perfectly good reserve? Yup good point???? how do you know your steering link is gonna break while driving on the freeway. how do you know if a wire will burn in your home and set your house on fire..yup another good point... What's your point? Perhaps I'm missing it, or perhaps you missed his. Maybe it's easier with the text of the post that he was responding to... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firstime 0 #60 June 12, 2009 To make a comment "how do you know you have a perfect reserve" seems to be a question no one can answer. It's almost like saying " does your hand break works in your car" I use it all the time of coarse it will work. "you don't know for sure. If you or anyone would not chop because "your not sure if your reserve is perfect" you might want to learn how to fly on your own,fuck the reserve. are you gonna wake up in the morning, make me the beneficiary on your life policy if your sure Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #61 June 12, 2009 QuoteI carry some extra line in all of my jump suits just for this. If i can't unseat my toggle i'll simply cut the line that is stowed and rie me a quick half hitch and use that for my steering line, i've done this more than once. One time, i just yanked it loose tearing it away from the risers, that worked as well. If you're actually serious, fix your toggles. Soft toggles and thin lines will cause hang ups. knucklehead.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brettski74 0 #62 June 12, 2009 QuoteTo make a comment "how do you know you have a perfect reserve" seems to be a question no one can answer. Sure I can. Here's my answer - You don't know. That's the point. QuoteIt's almost like saying " does your hand break works in your car" I use it all the time of coarse it will work. "you don't know for sure. If you or anyone would not chop because "your not sure if your reserve is perfect" you might want to learn how to fly on your own,fuck the reserve. Nobody's suggesting that you should live in fear of a malfunction of the 3-ring release or the reserve. Sometimes you run out of options and that's what you have to do. Saying Why risk it when you've got a perfectly good reserve isn't the best attitude, though, since it seems to ignore the fact that there may be other options. Once you've cut away, you've given up those options and there's no going back. On the other hand, if I try to secure the brakes but still have trouble with the main, I can still cut away. If: you're above your decision altitude, you are able to secure the brakes and land on rear risers, you have practised the skills necessary to do so on your current canopy and the conditions on the ground are satisfactory for a braked, rear-riser landing, then why cut away? You know you have something above your head that you can land safely. Your reserve is not guaranteed. Learn to fly your canopy using all inputs and in all modes of flight and you will have more options than just cutaway and rely on your 3-ring release and reserve to fix all your problems. I have cutaway and landed my reserve. I'm not afraid of it, but I still think it's better to have options. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrismgtis 0 #63 June 12, 2009 Let me ask a hypothetical question. Say I jump a 175 and I'm 148lbs and I land without flaring. This is not a HP canopy, so I may or may not have some speed depending on conditions. Would not flaring definitely put me in the hospital if I executed a good PLF?Rodriguez Brother #1614, Muff Brother #4033 Jumped: Twin Otter, Cessna 182, CASA, Helicopter, Caravan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdrejhon 8 #64 June 12, 2009 Really no simple answer. You can still even go to the hospital with a good flare on 0.6 wingload, while it's possible to land 1.1 straight-in without a flare or broken bone if it's under really good conditions, the right amount of wind, soft ground, perfectly excuted PLF. It all depends on so many variables... Wingloading and descent speed is one of many variables... Still full of risk no matter how's it's sliced... That said, on average, your odds of injury (And death!) definitely do increase the higher the wingload, to a point where certain death is going to happen. (Landing a 2.5:1 canopy without a nearly perfectly executed flare, can easily be lethal) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brettski74 0 #65 June 12, 2009 QuoteLet me ask a hypothetical question. Say I jump a 175 and I'm 148lbs and I land without flaring. This is not a HP canopy, so I may or may not have some speed depending on conditions. Unless you're landing in an updraft - which is not advisable, as there will probably be turbulence associated with it - your vertical speed will be much the same for a straight-in approach, regardless of conditions. You flare to avoid pounding your legs into the ground. QuoteWould not flaring definitely put me in the hospital if I executed a good PLF? You can do a PLF, a shoulder roll or dance the merengue. You might hurt yourself. You might not. My question is why are you not flaring? Whether you have brakes or not, you still have rear risers. There's no point in pounding your legs into the ground on landing when you are perfectly capable of reducing your rate of descent and making it gentler on your legs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mircan 0 #66 June 15, 2009 Yesterday i tried to steer and flare my crossfire with rear risers and stowed brakes... ...I will definitely chop it if I ever get one stuck toggle. After small rear riser turn canopy got into spiraling dive and did not stop until I applied opposite riser. Then when I tried to flare it got to the stall point very easily... I would not do that near the ground. OTOH, without stowed brakes it is whole different story. dudeist skydiver #42 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
abshhkc 0 #67 June 15, 2009 I don't think that the poll is such a good idea. I'd probably try and land mine with rear risers, while making sure that I know where the stall point is. However, I certainly won't recommend somebody with 26 jumps to try this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
