Setup of old Perris Valley 2-AAD AFF rigs?

[pchapman 261]

I'm looking for information on how a rig can be set up for AFF style jumps, if it uses a spring loaded pilot chute and an AAD on the main -- and also needs to have a handle for the reserve-side instructor to deploy the main.

I heard Perris Valley used to have such a setup until about 2001. The USAF Academy is said to use a similar concept.

How are such systems built? If using a ripcord system, an FXC can be set up to pull the pin, but it gets messier to set up a second handle for the reserve side instructor.

[Miami 0]

No idea what Perris used but the academy's rigs with dual aads were solely for 490 jumps. As soon as they went on to AFF they switched to throw out. The dual aad rigs had the ripcord for the main basically where the cutaway is located on the typical sport rig and an sos system.

Miami

[BigSky 2]

This is the way the student Infinity I learned on are set up.

You just rout the rip cord threw the instructor loop. It then velcrows down to the instructor side of the rig. The rip cord handle is in the typical BOC location.

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[diablopilot 2]

I'd never heard of the 2 AAD system, as I knew it, they used to use FXC's on the mains, and then switched to Cypres on the reserves.

To my line of thinking, 2 AAD's on seperate canopies is ASKING for a two out scenario.

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[BigSky 2]

Oh wait.........you said AAD on the main. Never mind

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[monkycndo 0]

The Air Force Academy does use two AADs. Spoke to a grad who was on the Demo Team.

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[PhreeZone 15]

I'd think if a setup was designed with a ripcord like UPT uses it could work.

I'm thinking the old Perris Valley rigs were from Rigging Innovations so they might be a good place to start with.

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[Miami 0]

In 2002 most of the 490 rigs had FXCs on the main and the reserve, main set for 2500', reserve for 1000'. By the time I left in 2005 most of the rigs had FXC's on the main (still set at 2500') and an expert cypres on the reserve. Main FXC fires we not rare, but I can't recall ever seeing a reserve fire on a 490 rig that was not involved in a malfunction. I also believe that there have not been any 2 out scenarios due to the dual aads there.

Miami

[Miami 0]

The 490 rigs (dual aad rigs) from the academy were all RI rigs as well.

Miami

[tdog 0]

I am not in the AF Academy but I have trained dozens of the 490 program graduates in civilian skydiving and a lot of my friends go/went there. To further clarify, the dual AADs are for 490 program jumps only (no instructor - hop-n-pops with student pulling on their own).

All the other AF cadet/staff skydivers use rigs just like we do, just with very large mains (1.0 WL max).

[Miami 0]

Quote

All the other AF cadet/staff skydivers use rigs just like we do, just with very large mains (1.0 WL max).

That was written somewhere but not followed...I had a 170 with an exit weight of 225 the entire time I was there.

Miami

[tdog 0]

Quote

Quote

All the other AF cadet/staff skydivers use rigs just like we do, just with very large mains (1.0 WL max).

That was written somewhere but not followed...I had a 170 with an exit weight of 225 the entire time I was there.

I was told for instructors/staff 1.3 max. You would thus be (almost) within the reg.

I met with the head rigger for the USAFA on Wednesday night, BTW... We are putting together a knowledge sharing group... He was talking about his current project - assembling over 200 new rigs while keeping the total fleet of 400+ rigs maintained. Anyway, he is very open to sharing info and volunteered us to contact him about the ADDs as he was factory trained to maintain them...

I am sure I can get all the scoop to any question asked too, although I trust you (Miami) to know too.

[billvon 2,400]

>I heard Perris Valley used to have such a setup until about 2001.

AFAIK Perris switched from an FXC on the main to a cypres on the reserve.

>If using a ripcord system, an FXC can be set up to pull the pin, but it
>gets messier to set up a second handle for the reserve side instructor.

Depends where the ripcord is. If it's a BOC it's not much of an issue; you can reach it from either side. If it's an ROL, then your choices would probably be:

-standard two-handle system with the FXC going to a second closing loop on a continuous closing loop (like the Strong tandem systems)

-standard two-handle system with the secondary release below the container (where the BOC pouch would be.) A loop around the main ripcord in that position would pull the pin without locking off against the closing loop.

[riggerrob 558]

>gets messier to set up a second handle for the reserve side instructor.

-standard two-handle system with the FXC going to a second closing loop on a continuous closing loop (like the Strong tandem systems)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Agreed, but those double-ended, continuous closing loops are terrible sensitive about length.
You basically have to make them as short as your best packer can close. Any longer than that and you risk container lock.
A container lock can occur if the edge of the pilot chute spring pushes the loop against the raised/rolled edge of a grommet. It only takes a little pressure to hold the loop.
That is why Sandy Reid (head of Rigging Innovations) said in 1997: "This is the rig - with this configuration - that we will ever build."

This is same problem that killed a Belgian jumper in France last year. His AAD cut his reserve closing loop, but the loop was too long and the reserve pilot chute spring pressed the loop against the underside of a reserve grommet, creating a (Vector 3) reserve container lock.

Ergo - a couple of years ago - Mirage issued a Service Bulletin telling riggers to relocate Cypres cutters higher in the reserve container. Two German manufacturers and Parachutes de France followed with similar Service Bulletins and it is rumored that Icon will announce a similar Service Bulletin later this year.
The bottom line is that three deployment initiators (i.e two ripcord handles and an FXC) on a main container is too many.

[riggerrob 558]

They are a rigger's worst nightmare.

Trust me because I worked at Rigging Innovations when (1994 to 1997) the US Air Force Academy bought those rigs and my last (winter 2001) job at Perris Valley was to convert all their Student Telesis rigs (from double ripcords plus FXC on the main) to double-handle BOC.

[pchapman 261]

Quote

The bottom line is that three deployment initiators (i.e two ripcord handles and an FXC) on a main container is too many.

I can't disagree much with that at the moment. I haven't figured out any good way to get a 3rd deployment mechanism on the rigs in question, without an extensive rebuild. Not a lot of space to put yet another cable. A question is whether the FXC can be considered sufficient to replace a separate handle for a reserve side PFF instructor.

(Some rigs of course do use 3 deployment methods although it gets 'busy' at the pin. E.g, Vectors where the end of the RSL has a pin, and the end of the ripcord has an eye that loops over the pin, and there's an FXC fitting over the pin as well.)

[riggerrob 558]

Maybe you should re-think the concept ... starting with a curved reserve closing pin out of a Sigma.