johnny1488 1 #26 February 21, 2007 I hate the "not fully elliptical" thing. The Diablo is a high performance canopy. Having a straight leading edge does not make it any more suitable for a beginner. It is very elliptical. Just cause its not on the front does not make it "slightly" or lightly" elliptical. It is highly or for all intensive purposes, fully elliptical. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elisha 1 #27 February 21, 2007 QuoteI hate the "not fully elliptical" thing. The Diablo is a high performance canopy. Having a straight leading edge does not make it any more suitable for a beginner. It is very elliptical. Just cause its not on the front does not make it "slightly" or lightly" elliptical. It is highly or for all intensive purposes, fully elliptical. So, what does the combo square to fully elliptical make the turns behave? [Note: not that I have any experience with anything more elliptical than a Pilot/Sabre2/Safire2] Do they start slow but then really whip around? What about compared to a Stilleto? I would think the square part would have some type of counteracting behaviour. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #28 February 21, 2007 QuoteQuoteI hate the "not fully elliptical" thing. The Diablo is a high performance canopy. Having a straight leading edge does not make it any more suitable for a beginner. It is very elliptical. Just cause its not on the front does not make it "slightly" or lightly" elliptical. It is highly or for all intensive purposes, fully elliptical. So, what does the combo square to fully elliptical make the turns behave? [Note: not that I have any experience with anything more elliptical than a Pilot/Sabre2/Safire2] Do they start slow but then really whip around? What about compared to a Stilleto? I would think the square part would have some type of counteracting behaviour. You get a sort of schizofrenic canopy: either it opens real straight (like a triathlon) or it turns and DIVES like say a vengeance might. It is VERY sensitive to weight input. On a same size spectre/triathlon/safire/pilot/vengeance I can hardly perform a harness turn, only with much effort, this thing does harness turns when I don't want ' em BTW not all HP canopies are that elliptical, the crossbraced ones are really not. And trapezium would really be a better term for the shape of a diablo. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #29 February 21, 2007 QuoteIMO it is. I've put a few jumps on a Cobalt 170 loaded at 1.2, which is the very bottom end of atair's wingloading recommendation chart, and I think it's way too agressive for a new jumper. I jump a Cobalt 135. It was not a big change compared to Pilot150 except its more sensitive on body position on opening. I have compared in size. Both have the same wingspan, but Cobalt has 4 tapered cells, Pilot has only 2. I can not stall it with toggles, it flies stable even in deepest brakes although end cells a bit turned backwards. It is flying really nice and stable @ WL 1.6. I would not have anything against jumping a Cobalt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites phoenixlpr 0 #30 February 21, 2007 Quoteou get a sort of schizofrenic canopy: either it opens real straight (like a triathlon) or it turns and DIVES like say a vengeance might. It is VERY sensitive to weight input. On a same size spectre/triathlon/safire/pilot/vengeance I can hardly perform a harness turn, only with much effort, this thing does harness turns when I don't want ' em Unsure It can have something with the lines and the center of gravity of the system: under the leading or trailing edge. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 27 #31 February 21, 2007 Quote*** Dont kid yourself. You can apply power on a plane if you fucked up your approach. *** Seriously? When's the last time you saw a canopy do a go around?Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites phoenixlpr 0 #32 February 21, 2007 QuoteWhen's the last time you saw a canopy do a go around? I did it, although the second approach was not as soft as the first use to be. 90 degrees turn on front risers, going low, hittnig the brakes, bouncing back from gravel and pop up 3 meters. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Elisha 1 #33 February 21, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteI hate the "not fully elliptical" thing. The Diablo is a high performance canopy. Having a straight leading edge does not make it any more suitable for a beginner. It is very elliptical. Just cause its not on the front does not make it "slightly" or lightly" elliptical. It is highly or for all intensive purposes, fully elliptical. So, what does the combo square to fully elliptical make the turns behave? [Note: not that I have any experience with anything more elliptical than a Pilot/Sabre2/Safire2] Do they start slow but then really whip around? What about compared to a Stilleto? I would think the square part would have some type of counteracting behaviour. You get a sort of schizofrenic canopy: either it opens real straight (like a triathlon) or it turns and DIVES like say a vengeance might. It is VERY sensitive to weight input. On a same size spectre/triathlon/safire/pilot/vengeance I can hardly perform a harness turn, only with much effort, this thing does harness turns when I don't want ' em BTW not all HP canopies are that elliptical, the crossbraced ones are really not. And trapezium would really be a better term for the shape of a diablo. Sounds funky...guess Diablo is a good name for it. Sounds like something I'm not really missing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites reinhart36 0 #34 February 21, 2007 QuoteQuote*** Dont kid yourself. You can apply power on a plane if you fucked up your approach. *** Seriously? When's the last time you saw a canopy do a go around? I know Remster, I was being facetious. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dragon2 2 #35 February 21, 2007 Found a pic of my canopy from when I bought it, don't know who made the pic but i assume the original owner. The pic speaks for itself ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumper03 0 #36 February 21, 2007 Quote[Sounds funky...guess Diablo is a good name for it. Sounds like something I'm not really missing. I disagree. Suuuper soft openings. I've left the nose fully open with the slider stuff inside and STILL get a nice snivel out of it. If you push the nose in with the slider out - you'll get a 1000ft+ opening (don't pull low with this one). Fun as hell to fly!! I can come out of the sky quick and put it down into very tight places because of the steep glide angle. It will scream over the ground but you're not going to win any swoop comps with it.Scars remind us that the past is real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites d20111 0 #37 February 21, 2007 Good choice. As others have said it's a fast turner. I have a Diablo 110 I've been trying to sell forever. I turned a chance to sell it to someone with more jumps than you have and still wouldn't sell it to a new jumper. It's a fun canopy, but not until you've had some "oh shits"! Frank Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airdog07 0 #38 February 21, 2007 The turns on the Diablo arent just fast responsive turns: they are VERY fast, and make you loose a lot of altitude. -------------------------------------------------------------- diablo turn is fast but because it is 7 cell recovery arc is short, so you do not lose altitude like colbalt, more like safire. I had 1 to 5 line twist they are stable canopy. diablo is not for beginner, try triathlon, safire, pilot."A peaceful heart leads to a healthy body; jealousy is like cancer in the bones ..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,772 #39 February 21, 2007 >So, what does the combo square to fully elliptical make the turns behave? I think there might be an over-emphasis on what the shape of the edges do to the flight characteristics of a canopy. A Sabre 1 and a Nova have a similar planform (rectangular) but one is considerably higher performance, and considerably less stable, than the other. Aspects like airfoil, trim angle, line placement, nose openings, brake setpoint/geometry etc have a very significant effect as well, to the extent that two canopies with exactly the same planform can have dramatically different characteristics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,334 #40 February 21, 2007 I have a decent number of jumps on a Diablo. It loses a lot of altitude on a turn. The harder you turn, the more altitude it loses. You have to counter a turn a little to stop it often times. I'm sure it has a shorter recovery arc than some canopies, but it loses a whole lot more altitude in a turn, and behaves a whole lot more radically (for lack of a better word), than my Safire 1 used to. Spinning line twists can be a cause for cutting away if you're opening somewhat low (I do some bigways), because it loses a whole lot of altitude. I also absolutely love it. It's the perfect canopy for me, except that I'm always trying to get the perfect 300-foot opening. I just about have it down to that. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peckerhead 0 #41 February 22, 2007 QuoteWithout getting in to the reasons for the Diablo being discontinued, Why they were discontinued is the topic of this thread....If you know the answer why avoid the question? A few years ago a freind of mine was at the PIA symposium right after they discontinued production and he asked someone from Aerodyne why they quit making them. The rep said he had no idea why, they were very popular and they seemed to sell quite a few of them. Seriously, I love mine and it just doesn't make sense to stop making such a popular canopy. Sure, they are not for everybody but you can say that about any canopy..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airdog07 0 #42 February 22, 2007 I have about 450 on diablo 135 I use to spin that canopy 7to 8 time I crank on the togle I never have spinning line twist, just on the opening , not the it well not get a spinning line twist I just never experience it"A peaceful heart leads to a healthy body; jealousy is like cancer in the bones ..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cobaltdan 0 #43 February 22, 2007 "but Cobalt has 4 tapered cells, " please note this is not correct: the cobalt is a 9 cell canopy with 5 square center cells and 2 linear taper cells (cut straight, not curved) on each side.Daniel Preston <><> atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 27 #44 February 22, 2007 QuoteI know Remster, I was being facetious. Sorry... Hard to tell online! Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dragon2 2 #45 February 22, 2007 Quote "but Cobalt has 4 tapered cells, " please note this is not correct: the cobalt is a 9 cell canopy with 5 square center cells and 2 linear taper cells (cut straight, not curved) on each side. Ehm, that's what he said, no? ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites phoenixlpr 0 #46 February 22, 2007 Quoteplease note this is not correct: the cobalt is a 9 cell canopy with 5 square center cells and 2 linear taper cells (cut straight, not curved) on each side. You should be right. I meant 2 by sides. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tbrown 26 #47 February 23, 2007 Seriously, I love mine and it just doesn't make sense to stop making such a popular canopy. Sure, they are not for everybody but you can say that about any canopy..... Has anyone considered making Diablos again under some kind of a licensing agreement ? Wouldn't have to be a startup shop, an established manufacturer with known quality control might be interested, if the licensing wouldn't cost too much. Just a thought... Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #30 February 21, 2007 Quoteou get a sort of schizofrenic canopy: either it opens real straight (like a triathlon) or it turns and DIVES like say a vengeance might. It is VERY sensitive to weight input. On a same size spectre/triathlon/safire/pilot/vengeance I can hardly perform a harness turn, only with much effort, this thing does harness turns when I don't want ' em Unsure It can have something with the lines and the center of gravity of the system: under the leading or trailing edge. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 27 #31 February 21, 2007 Quote*** Dont kid yourself. You can apply power on a plane if you fucked up your approach. *** Seriously? When's the last time you saw a canopy do a go around?Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #32 February 21, 2007 QuoteWhen's the last time you saw a canopy do a go around? I did it, although the second approach was not as soft as the first use to be. 90 degrees turn on front risers, going low, hittnig the brakes, bouncing back from gravel and pop up 3 meters. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elisha 1 #33 February 21, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteI hate the "not fully elliptical" thing. The Diablo is a high performance canopy. Having a straight leading edge does not make it any more suitable for a beginner. It is very elliptical. Just cause its not on the front does not make it "slightly" or lightly" elliptical. It is highly or for all intensive purposes, fully elliptical. So, what does the combo square to fully elliptical make the turns behave? [Note: not that I have any experience with anything more elliptical than a Pilot/Sabre2/Safire2] Do they start slow but then really whip around? What about compared to a Stilleto? I would think the square part would have some type of counteracting behaviour. You get a sort of schizofrenic canopy: either it opens real straight (like a triathlon) or it turns and DIVES like say a vengeance might. It is VERY sensitive to weight input. On a same size spectre/triathlon/safire/pilot/vengeance I can hardly perform a harness turn, only with much effort, this thing does harness turns when I don't want ' em BTW not all HP canopies are that elliptical, the crossbraced ones are really not. And trapezium would really be a better term for the shape of a diablo. Sounds funky...guess Diablo is a good name for it. Sounds like something I'm not really missing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
reinhart36 0 #34 February 21, 2007 QuoteQuote*** Dont kid yourself. You can apply power on a plane if you fucked up your approach. *** Seriously? When's the last time you saw a canopy do a go around? I know Remster, I was being facetious. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #35 February 21, 2007 Found a pic of my canopy from when I bought it, don't know who made the pic but i assume the original owner. The pic speaks for itself ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumper03 0 #36 February 21, 2007 Quote[Sounds funky...guess Diablo is a good name for it. Sounds like something I'm not really missing. I disagree. Suuuper soft openings. I've left the nose fully open with the slider stuff inside and STILL get a nice snivel out of it. If you push the nose in with the slider out - you'll get a 1000ft+ opening (don't pull low with this one). Fun as hell to fly!! I can come out of the sky quick and put it down into very tight places because of the steep glide angle. It will scream over the ground but you're not going to win any swoop comps with it.Scars remind us that the past is real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d20111 0 #37 February 21, 2007 Good choice. As others have said it's a fast turner. I have a Diablo 110 I've been trying to sell forever. I turned a chance to sell it to someone with more jumps than you have and still wouldn't sell it to a new jumper. It's a fun canopy, but not until you've had some "oh shits"! Frank Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdog07 0 #38 February 21, 2007 The turns on the Diablo arent just fast responsive turns: they are VERY fast, and make you loose a lot of altitude. -------------------------------------------------------------- diablo turn is fast but because it is 7 cell recovery arc is short, so you do not lose altitude like colbalt, more like safire. I had 1 to 5 line twist they are stable canopy. diablo is not for beginner, try triathlon, safire, pilot."A peaceful heart leads to a healthy body; jealousy is like cancer in the bones ..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,772 #39 February 21, 2007 >So, what does the combo square to fully elliptical make the turns behave? I think there might be an over-emphasis on what the shape of the edges do to the flight characteristics of a canopy. A Sabre 1 and a Nova have a similar planform (rectangular) but one is considerably higher performance, and considerably less stable, than the other. Aspects like airfoil, trim angle, line placement, nose openings, brake setpoint/geometry etc have a very significant effect as well, to the extent that two canopies with exactly the same planform can have dramatically different characteristics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,334 #40 February 21, 2007 I have a decent number of jumps on a Diablo. It loses a lot of altitude on a turn. The harder you turn, the more altitude it loses. You have to counter a turn a little to stop it often times. I'm sure it has a shorter recovery arc than some canopies, but it loses a whole lot more altitude in a turn, and behaves a whole lot more radically (for lack of a better word), than my Safire 1 used to. Spinning line twists can be a cause for cutting away if you're opening somewhat low (I do some bigways), because it loses a whole lot of altitude. I also absolutely love it. It's the perfect canopy for me, except that I'm always trying to get the perfect 300-foot opening. I just about have it down to that. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peckerhead 0 #41 February 22, 2007 QuoteWithout getting in to the reasons for the Diablo being discontinued, Why they were discontinued is the topic of this thread....If you know the answer why avoid the question? A few years ago a freind of mine was at the PIA symposium right after they discontinued production and he asked someone from Aerodyne why they quit making them. The rep said he had no idea why, they were very popular and they seemed to sell quite a few of them. Seriously, I love mine and it just doesn't make sense to stop making such a popular canopy. Sure, they are not for everybody but you can say that about any canopy..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdog07 0 #42 February 22, 2007 I have about 450 on diablo 135 I use to spin that canopy 7to 8 time I crank on the togle I never have spinning line twist, just on the opening , not the it well not get a spinning line twist I just never experience it"A peaceful heart leads to a healthy body; jealousy is like cancer in the bones ..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cobaltdan 0 #43 February 22, 2007 "but Cobalt has 4 tapered cells, " please note this is not correct: the cobalt is a 9 cell canopy with 5 square center cells and 2 linear taper cells (cut straight, not curved) on each side.Daniel Preston <><> atairaerodynamics.com (sport) atairaerospace.com (military) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 27 #44 February 22, 2007 QuoteI know Remster, I was being facetious. Sorry... Hard to tell online! Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #45 February 22, 2007 Quote "but Cobalt has 4 tapered cells, " please note this is not correct: the cobalt is a 9 cell canopy with 5 square center cells and 2 linear taper cells (cut straight, not curved) on each side. Ehm, that's what he said, no? ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #46 February 22, 2007 Quoteplease note this is not correct: the cobalt is a 9 cell canopy with 5 square center cells and 2 linear taper cells (cut straight, not curved) on each side. You should be right. I meant 2 by sides. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #47 February 23, 2007 Seriously, I love mine and it just doesn't make sense to stop making such a popular canopy. Sure, they are not for everybody but you can say that about any canopy..... Has anyone considered making Diablos again under some kind of a licensing agreement ? Wouldn't have to be a startup shop, an established manufacturer with known quality control might be interested, if the licensing wouldn't cost too much. Just a thought... Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 27 #48 February 23, 2007 Quotedoesn't make sense to stop making such a popular canopy. Popular? I have rarely seen others.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EAerodyne 0 #49 February 23, 2007 The reason we discontinued it was due to the fact that it was no longer selling very well. Those that bought them loved them and there are those that owned them that wish we'd build them again. However, the design didn't sell that well believe it or not.... around about 30-40 canopies a year.... to give you a comparison, we sell approximately 1500 Pilots a year. There is so much more to continuing a dying canopy like that, such as maintenance etc, materials that we no longer use that have to be stocked to maintain it, build etc. It just doesn't weigh up in the end. Aerodyne Research still owns and excercises the rights to that canopy and we at present have no intention of ever selling them or licensing the design. I am happy to hear that people loved the canopies they had... However it is a canopy that we will probably not release again in it's original form. That doesn't mean we don't have a canopy in R&D that is due to replace the high performance 7 cell void in our line up right now... but it's a ways off the mark from being released at present. Hope this helps quell the rumours and the questions. have a good weekend Kind regards Bushman Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elisha 1 #50 February 24, 2007 Quote The reason we discontinued it was due to the fact that it was no longer selling very well. Those that bought them loved them and there are those that owned them that wish we'd build them again. However, the design didn't sell that well believe it or not.... around about 30-40 canopies a year.... to give you a comparison, we sell approximately 1500 Pilots a year. So, in other words, it made even less since to continue the Diablo then it would have been for GM to continue the Oldsmobile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
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