If you're gonna talk trash, BACK IT UP

[gmittar 0]

These kind of threads are funny

|>.Seriously, W.T.F. mate?

[dorbie 0]

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Boxers are no match for well rounded MMA fighters....period.

Those ultimate fighters would get spanked in a boxing ring.

They're different 'sports' with different rules and techniques.

It's unfair to say this is cowardice, both show physical courage but either would be an idiot to take a champion on in a different sport. If you think this self-promoting bullshit exposes cowardice you should probably lay off the red meat for a week or two.

[Richards 0]

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That's assuming the MMA fighter likes to go to the ground. Many of them don't.

Thats fine. I am just pointing out that there is too much black and white on this debate. Again boxing does have vulnerabilities but it seems most UFC fighters utilise some combination of skills with one skill unique to any fighter. Example, most have a combimation of skills but soem tend to focus more in grappling, others on in close fighting with knees kicks..etc. Since very few seem to be endowed with boxing skills there is very little defense to that style. If someone who had great boxing skills but also took the time to aquire some degree of skill in MMA (just enough that he is not defenceless against them) his boxing skills might just help him dominate. Again most of these guys leave themselves wide open when moving forward. If someone had a snappy hard punch he might be able to end one of these matches seconds in.

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[popsjumper 2]

Way too much testosterone flowing in this thread.
But that's a youngster's job, isn't it?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[dorbie 0]

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Way too much testosterone flowing in this thread.
But that's a youngster's job, isn't it?

Yup.

[GQ_jumper 4]

How do you take a guy down for a submission hold if every time you lunge at him he peppers your face with punches while moving out of range. Eventually, cuts will open, eyes will swell shut and the boxer could be in a position to finish the guy.

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Do you really think it's that easy? You just "move out of range", smart ground fighters don't just stand back and then shoot in when they're ready, they set up their take down with strikes. You put the guy off his center of balance by striking and then when his weight is back and he can't move quick you GET LOW(which is what prevents you from getting peppered with strikes while you shoot) and close in on your oponents legs. This is where the other person sprawls, when you are sprawled trying to avoid a take down your hips aren't in a position to allow you to put any great amount of power into your strikes. Of course you can still strike but not with any great amount of efficiency. And if the take down fails as the fight stands back up a good grappler with stay with the pther fighter and keep him in the clinch, againa place where a boxer isn't going to fair well. It's going to depend on the skill of both fighters, but just looking at the odds, a boxer is at a serious disadvantage steeping into an MMA fight. You look at the strikers who dominate the MMA circuits, guys like Chuck and Mirko, what is one of the key skills that make them so dominant? Take down defense, the last person to take Chuck to the ground and control him was Randy, a former Olympic alternate. Without his takedown defense Chuck would have lost his title in the first round of his Ortiz rematch, tito brought him down, just couldn't keep him there. It's not just the striking skill that makes these guys stand apart, it's their ability to keep the fight where they want it. And as for Sherk being picked, that is because he is the champ in the weight class where Mayweather fights, Penn is a weight class above him.

I'm not knocking boxers as a whole, when I see a well trained boxer bobbin and wevin through a flurry of punches without a single one contacting him and coming around to throw a straight right while his opponents arm is extended it's like watching poetry in motion. Although sometimes I watch boxing matches and its two guys swinging wildly for the fences and wonder what the hell they are doing in the ring. MMA however has completely taken over as the fighting sport of choice, and this isn't just an opinion, TUF is a more poular reality series than the Contender, and UFC has all the records for PPV buys. Just looks at the sports section of all this weeks newspapers, they are flooded with stories of how MMA has surpassed boxing. Boxing's peak was many years ago and it's fanbase is getting tired of paying big money for a PPV with only one fight on the card that goes nowhere for 12 rounds.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

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[dorbie 0]

Now we've gone from cage brawling to boxing to sprinting, look, take the cage / ring away and the fastest runner wins.

Can we cover them in gravy and throw in a bear or something too?

[popsjumper 2]

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Thanatos340 1]

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Just looks at the sports section of all this weeks newspapers, they are flooded with stories of how MMA has surpassed boxing.

I am a Huge Boxing fan and really don’t care at all for UFC (Or Pride or any other sport where two guys roll around on the ground and look like two crabs fucking. If you want to fight, Stand up and Fight.. If you want to fuck, go find a local bath house or something.).. But I do agree with your statement.

Boxing is dying out. It was killed by Bob Arum, Don King and other sleaze ball promoters and the pathetic greed and corruption of the ABC`s (Various Sanctioning Bodies). Boxing has always been run by sleezeballs and crooks. The UFC definitely has been better managed and promoted.

As for Mayweather fighting a UFC guy.. Sure but make it Fair.. First they BOX a couple rounds, Then UFC for a Round.

If there going to be a Boxer/UFC fight though.. I would much rather see someone other than Mayweather (Who primarily a defensive fighter with limited power) fight.

[GQ_jumper 4]

As for Mayweather fighting a UFC guy.. Sure but make it Fair.. First they BOX a couple rounds, Then UFC for a Round.

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How is that fair? The person who the UFC asked to take on Mayweather is Sean Sherk, who has a background in wrestling. So by forcing him into a boxing match you are in no way allowing him to use his best tools. In an MMA match Mayweather can use his tools as much as he wants, he just has more that he has to defent against. MMA is a more realistic fighting stage than boxing, if Mayweather had said he could "outbox" any UFC fighter and one stepped up to the challenge, than lets see them step inside the ring, but he didn't say that. Mayweather stated that him or any of his fighters could step into the cage and take on any UFC fighter under their rules, yet refuses to back it up, there is one boxer however that accepted the challenge, can't recall his nme off-hand but his is apparently accepting the callenge to fight Sherk, and is one of the top ten fighters in his weight class in the IBF.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

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[willard 0]

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Just looks at the sports section of all this weeks newspapers, they are flooded with stories of how MMA has surpassed boxing.

I am a Huge Boxing fan and really don’t care at all for UFC (Or Pride or any other sport where two guys roll around on the ground and look like two crabs fucking. If you want to fight, Stand up and Fight.. If you want to fuck, go find a local bath house or something.).. But I do agree with your statement.

Boxing is dying out. It was killed by Bob Arum, Don King and other sleaze ball promoters and the pathetic greed and corruption of the ABC`s (Various Sanctioning Bodies). Boxing has always been run by sleezeballs and crooks. The UFC definitely has been better managed and promoted.

As for Mayweather fighting a UFC guy.. Sure but make it Fair.. First they BOX a couple rounds, Then UFC for a Round.

If there going to be a Boxer/UFC fight though.. I would much rather see someone other than Mayweather (Who primarily a defensive fighter with limited power) fight.

I have the same bitch about UFC-type fights. "Two crabs fucking"
I have no problem with the fight going to the matt, it's the nature of the game. But there should be a time limit. Once on the ground there should be a 90 or 120 second limit then the fighters return to their feet.
But it don't matter much since I rarely watch. Not that the guys aren't tough (I wouldn't step into a ring against any of 'em), and not because it gets boring (I watch baseball), it's just that there is not a hell of a lot of intelligence involved in letting someone punch you in the face, knee you in the ribs, and try to rip your arm out of joint. I can go to the zoo or the local bar and see that stuff.

[GQ_jumper 4]

But there should be a time limit. Once on the ground there should be a 90 or 120 second limit then the fighters return to their feet.

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Actually this does happen, if two fighters go to the ground and the fight stagnates they are brought up to there feet. If they go to the ground and they are both fighting agressively on the ground the fight will go on. It's a good rule but sometimes it screws guys over. You'll see a guy who has no round skill get taken down and just bear hug the other guy and hold on until the ref stands it up so he can get back on his feet sometimes and that pisses me off. It's definitely not easy trying to fight from your back when you are getting punched no matter how good your grappling skills are, but just stalling the fight intentionally in hopes of the ref saving you is a pussy way out.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

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[dorbie 0]

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but just stalling the fight intentionally in hopes of the ref saving you is a pussy way out.

No bears, that's what's pussy.

[willard 0]

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but just stalling the fight intentionally in hopes of the ref saving you is a pussy way out.

No bears, that's what's pussy.

A friend-of-a-friend has succesfully pinned a large wrestling bear on several occasions. His trick? None, really. His grandfather owns the bear so he grew up watching and learning from hundreds of peoples mistakes.
Kinda like any successful fighter.

[Hipwrddude 0]

Mayweather is a salesman, besides, the UFC and Pride dole out chump change compared to the take on major boxing cards. Think about it, you are the #1 undefeated pound-for-pound champ in the world. The MMA world is the fastest growing combat sports audience/market out there. Antagonize a few, take in a few more millions. Why back it up? The UFC can't afford you, they're too busy ripping off fighters. Have you ever seen the real purses UFC fighters make? They are often publised on MMAWeekly.com. Besides, there's a guy out there who wants to back it up. His name is Cintron. Kermit Cintron. The 5'11" welterweight fighter has 28 fights, 27 knockouts and one loss. He is the IBF Champion. When he heard of Sherk's offer, he jumped on the opportunity... and why not? Cintron was an outstanding high school wrestler who turned down two college scholarships to wrestle. If Dana White can pony up the dough, Cintron will knock Sean Sherk out just as quickly as Sherk tries to shoot. Look what Liddell did to Couture. Boxers may be one dimensional, but if they're good, that's one BAD dimension. Besides, no well paid boxer in his right mind would blow a future boxing payday in an MMA match that might net you $20k but result in injury. Injuries in MMA are perhaps 10x more then in boxing. Injuries shorten careers. I agree with much of what you said, heck, I'm a huge MMA fan. But the real game is about $$$.
Cintron in action: http://www.ifilm.com/video/2688561

You're always the starter in your own life!

[GQ_jumper 4]

His name is Cintron. Kermit Cintron. The 5'11" welterweight fighter has 28 fights, 27 knockouts and one loss. He is the IBF Champion. When he heard of Sherk's offer, he jumped on the opportunity... and why not? Cintron was an outstanding high school wrestler who turned down two college scholarships to wrestle. If Dana White can pony up the dough, Cintron will knock Sean Sherk out just as quickly as Sherk tries to shoot. Look what Liddell did to Couture.

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Thanks, I had already mentioned Cintron I just couldn't remember his name.

And if you remember the first Chuck and Randy fight, Chuck couldn't stay on his feet to save his life, Randy took him down at will. Sherk only has two losses on his record to GSP and Matt Hughes. Neither of those are anything to gawk at, those are two of the best fighters in the game in their weight class. Sherk has been training on the ground for years, Cintron may have been a very gifted wrestler at one time but it's going to take a long time to get him to Sherk's level. Who knows though, MMA fights are known for being unpredictable. I still don't feel that boxers have a realistic chance if they are going to rely on their striking skills only, everyone saying "all you have to do is not get taken down and punch them when they try" don't seem to have too much experience when it comes to take-down defense. Unless your last name starts with Lidell, if someone wants to take you down it is going to happen eventually, and even Chuck has seen the canvas close up a few times.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

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[SkymonkeyONE 3]

In the original, seriously-no-holds-barred UFC fights, there were a number of clowns that showed up in the octagon with their boxing gloves on. They all got their asses handed to them. I can't for the life of me figure out why they just didn't go in with taped fists, but they, bigger than shit, showed up with gloves on. That was back when it was cool to repeatedly beat a guy in the nuts and the only two things you could not do were gouge eyes and bite. There were no TKO's then. You either tapped out or were rendered unconscious by your oponent. Those were the days. You had to show up and fight your way all the way up the card until the final event. There were no weight classes and there were no headline fights. Truly "last man standing" stuff.

Chuck

[Squeak 17]

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In the original, seriously-no-holds-barred UFC fights, there were a number of clowns that showed up in the octagon with their boxing gloves on. They all got their asses handed to them. I can't for the life of me figure out why they just didn't go in with taped fists, but they, bigger than shit, showed up with gloves on. That was back when it was cool to repeatedly beat a guy in the nuts and the only two things you could not do were gouge eyes and bite. There were no TKO's then. You either tapped out or were rendered unconscious by your oponent. Those were the days. You had to show up and fight your way all the way up the card until the final event. There were no weight classes and there were no headline fights. Truly "last man standing" stuff.

Chuck

Kumite

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[willard 0]

What UFC/MMA fights I've watched have shown me one thing; they are great all-around fighters but their boxing skills , compared to a pro, suck. A boxer may be one dimensional against a UFC fighter but the UFC fighter is also, for all intents and purposes, one dimensional against a boxer. He doesn't have a chance standing toe-to-toe, so his only chnace to win is to take the match to the matt. To do that he has to get in close, something pro boxers are very good at preventing. A champion boxer can use those attempts to his advantage and end the fight real quick.
Even if the fight goes to the matt it is no sure thing the boxer will lose. They are some of the worlds best conditioned athletes and, as a group, are in far better shape than the UFC/MMA crowd.

[Hipwrddude 0]

Those were the days. True, there was one boxer who faced Royce Gracie in UFC 1 wearing gloves... dumb. I attended UFC 7 in Buffalo, NY. Marco Ruas won his 3rd fight of the night against 6'9" 300lb+ Paul "The Polar Bear" Varelans. In the elimination tournaments after that the best fighter ended up getting injured and couldn't continue. Alternates stepped in, sort of mucking up the events. Today's fighters are more dangerous and every fight leaves both fighters pretty busted up. Aahhh, the humanity!

You're always the starter in your own life!

[warpedskydiver 0]

Too bad Dan Severn isn't 25 years younger, or that Dan Gable never got his chance to fight UFC.

Then again maybe it is better that they do not participate, I don't wish any harm to come to the rest of the competitors.

Ken Shamrock was a pretty interesting guy to meet in person, humble and kind.

[Zenister 0]

UFC is just as 'artifical' as Boxing, just with a different rule set.

Neither would do well outside of their structured enviroment where lethal, life changing attacks are prohibited by the rules.

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Richards 0]

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Do you really think it's that easy? You just "move out of range", smart ground fighters don't just stand back and then shoot in when they're ready, they set up their take down with strikes. You put the guy off his center of balance by striking and then when his weight is back and he can't move quick you GET LOW(which is what prevents you from getting peppered with strikes while you shoot) and close in on your oponents legs. This is where the other person sprawls, when you are sprawled trying to avoid a take down your hips aren't in a position to allow you to put any great amount of power into your strikes. Of course you can still strike but not with any great amount of efficiency. And if the take down fails as the fight stands back up a good grappler with stay with the pther fighter and keep him in the clinch, againa place where a boxer isn't going to fair well. It's going to depend on the skill of both fighters, but just looking at the odds, a boxer is at a serious disadvantage steeping into an MMA fight. You look at the strikers who dominate the MMA circuits, guys like Chuck and Mirko, what is one of the key skills that make them so dominant? Take down defense, the last person to take Chuck to the ground and control him was Randy, a former Olympic alternate. Without his takedown defense Chuck would have lost his title in the first round of his Ortiz rematch, tito brought him down, just couldn't keep him there. It's not just the striking skill that makes these guys stand apart, it's their ability to keep the fight where they want it. And as for Sherk being picked, that is because he is the champ in the weight class where Mayweather fights, Penn is a weight class above him.

I would never say that it is easy. Not by a long shot. Nor would I deny that someone who is only a boxer wouldn't neccessarily do well (wouldn't say he couldn't either). It seems that many of the better ones are not just grapplers or kickboxers or martial artists. The ones that seem to do well are usually skilled in several areas with one dominant skill. If all a guy can do is grapple, he has limitations. If all a guy can do is kick, he has limitations. Same goes for boxing.

I do feel that if you took a boxer who had spent countless years polishing his boxing skills, and then trained him in MMA while he kept up the boxing skills, he would have a distinct advantage over someone who did not practice boxing. If a boxer could utilise UFC skills to prevent takedown (or get out of one) and keep the fight where he wants it the MMA guy might be frustrated by the fact that his opponent has something in his repertoire which he has no real defence against.

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.