Noob. Wants to have another go. Best approach?

[Pele2048 0]

So... I had my first Tandem:
[URL]http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3736464[/URL]

I want to go through the AFF training and get a license to jump... I think I'll start this spring.

Questions:
During my tandem, my jumpmaster had to pull the ripcord. I didn't realize what my altitude was and scrambled to find the ripcord...
Given this, should I go on another tandem and request that I watch the altimeter during the descent so that I know when to pull and keep a hand on the cord at all times?
(Training indicated that I should have kept my arms above my head...)


Also... Gear: Rent or buy? This is both an economical and safety issue for me.

Is packing a canopy part of instruction? Care and feeding of the thing that saves my life is kinda important to me.

Nobody but me works on my car... It's a safety issue for me. Though I know what I'm doing under there. I have never packed a canopy.

Then again, I've seen used rigs for $4g... How much is it to rent usually?

[KermieCorleone 0]

Just pay for the AFF package or if the DZ has an A licence package then go for that. The A package will teach you everything you need to know to get started and keep jumping. Packing classes are generally included in the A licence package. And gear rental should also be included when you buy the entire package.

- Neil

Never make assumptions! That harmless rectangle could be two triangles having sex ...

[airtwardo 6]

Take a deep breath and welcome to the sport!


I really enjoyed your story, read it right after you posted it the other day...


Your tandem did what it was supposed to do, show you how fast this sport works...you don't need another.

Gear will be a part of your AFF program, don't give a thought to renting OR buying until you have some time in, and a license.

You will eventually want to buy gear if you decide to stick with your new found hobby...give it some time and concentrate on one step at a time.


Oh and keep the stories coming during the training phase!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Will_Evo 0]

Quote

So... I had my first Tandem:
[URL]http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3736464[/URL]

I want to go through the AFF training and get a license to jump... I think I'll start this spring.

Questions:
During my tandem, my jumpmaster had to pull the ripcord. I didn't realize what my altitude was and scrambled to find the ripcord...
Given this, should I go on another tandem and request that I watch the altimeter during the descent so that I know when to pull and keep a hand on the cord at all times?
(Training indicated that I should have kept my arms above my head...)


Also... Gear: Rent or buy? This is both an economical and safety issue for me.

Is packing a canopy part of instruction? Care and feeding of the thing that saves my life is kinda important to me.

Nobody but me works on my car... It's a safety issue for me. Though I know what I'm doing under there. I have never packed a canopy.

Then again, I've seen used rigs for $4g... How much is it to rent usually?

Congrats on your Tandem :)

It is your TI's job to pull, I promise, you did not surprise him/her at all, they were expecting you not to pull.

When the time comes, and you decide you enjoy the sport enough, people start looking at buying gear at their A license or a bit before, and it ranges between 2-6 g's.

You will learn to pack a canopy after AFF, it is a requirement for the A license for you to pack your own canopy, AND jump it.

After your AFF jumps, you will be on solo status, meaning you can jump on your own, and depending on what DZ, you may or may not be required to jump the DZ's rental gear, ranging from 15-25$ a jump plus the jump ticket.

Hope that helps.

-Evo

Zoo Crew

[wolfriverjoe 1,341]

Many people experience "sensory overload" on their 1st jump. Your mind simply cannot process what is happning. That's one of the reasons a lot of DZs have a "Tandem to AFF" progression. You'll do a lot better the 2nd time. The AFF 1st jump course will cover the correct pull procedure.

Rent gear at first. Student gear has some special features that sport gear doesn't. You will also be going from a huge beginner canopy through several sizes of student canopies to where you will want to be for your first rig.
Rental costs vary. Usually they are included in the student jump prices.
As was said above, when you get close to your A license, you will start to look for your first rig.
Your instructors and the local rigger should help you pick out an appropriate first rig.

Packing is a requirment for your license. You can start learning as early as you want. Some DZs discount the rental price if you pack it yourself (mine takes off the $5 we pay the packer). Watch the packers, talk to the instructors, packers, riggers, and even the regular jumpers. That's one of the biggest reasons for the "Beer Rules". If you bought the beer, you should be able to corner them and pick their brains for knowledge (Pele piper picked the pickled packer's brain?) If I am reading your post correctly, you want to know as much as possible about your gear.

Good!!! Far too many students just think "I'll pay a packer, why should I need to know anything about it?"
Knowing how your gear is set up and works is important for both finding problems on the ground, and for dealing with them when they happen.

If you're the mechanic type, you may even want to pursue your rigger rating. That's an FAA license to be a "parachute mechanic" (more or less).
It is a seperate thing from your A-license. It is a boatload of knowledge and skills that (IMHO) will help you be a better jumper because of the gear familairity.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Pele2048 0]

^

Whenever one of my friends buys a new/used car, I immediately go out and get the "Haynes" basic service manual from the auto parts store for about $20... That'll let me know how difficult various repairs will be when they inevitably come by for repairs...

When I go out and buy a new/used car, I immediately head to the dealer for manufacturer parts breakdown diagrams, electrical schematics, and a factory service manual.


A buddy of mine had a 1966 Mustang. It was the only vehicle he had ever had a shop work on. He had just gotten it from the shop after having the brakes readjusted. A short time thereafter, he got caught up in heavy traffic, went to step on the brakes... All four wheels locked up and he slid into the shoulder, wedged between the Jersey wall and a semi...

If I'm not packing my parachute, I will DEFINITELY be watching whomever is packing it and I will not be trusting them 100%.


Knowing how your gear works, IMHO is fundamental to using it...
I want to know the right and the wrong ways to pack it. I assume that there are more than a few way to pack a chute, as I saw several different methods when I was at the drop zone.

I not only like to know about my gear, but everyone else's too. in the event that I want to compare gear.

[wmw999 2,123]

Quote

Knowing how your gear works, IMHO is fundamental to using it...

You're absolutely right. However, unless you want to spend a whole lot of time learning about gear and not jumping, you're better off learning it in pieces as you jump.

There is a limit to what someone can incorporate and use all at once. In skydiving, it's important that you be able to access and use the emergency procedures and landing knowledge under high-stress conditions. So that's what you should focus on.

Learning about gear is a combination of looking, reading, and standing around while people pack and asking them questions. Do all of those; hanging around the DZ is a really good way to learn, especially if you hang around with the crusty old rigger types who enjoy gear.

You should most definitely learn about your gear. The more the better, in the long run. But could you rebuild a car before you got your driver's license?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[dks13827 3]

spend some time at the DZ if possible before your new class starts. talk to jumpers, packers and watch!!

watch all the youtube videos you can of tandems, AFF, and even malfunctions as well.

[timmyfitz 0]

Quote

Nobody but me works on my car... It's a safety issue for me. Though I know what I'm doing under there. I have never packed a canopy.

Quote

If I'm not packing my parachute, I will DEFINITELY be watching whomever is packing it and I will not be trusting them 100%.

When you did your first tandem, did you watch them pack it before you jumped with your TI? If you did watch, did you have a clue what they were doing? I doubt it.

After you learn to pack, you will find out that it is not a big mystery how it all works. Until you actually learn to pack, you can't tell if a parachute is being packed properly so you are trusting the packer 100%.

What about your reserve?

Slow down and take it one step at a time.

[icevideot 0]

Quote

Quote

Nobody but me works on my car... It's a safety issue for me. Though I know what I'm doing under there. I have never packed a canopy.

Quote

If I'm not packing my parachute, I will DEFINITELY be watching whomever is packing it and I will not be trusting them 100%.

When you did your first tandem, did you watch them pack it before you jumped with your TI? If you did watch, did you have a clue what they were doing? I doubt it.

After you learn to pack, you will find out that it is not a big mystery how it all works. Until you actually learn to pack, you can't tell if a parachute is being packed properly so you are trusting the packer 100%.

What about your reserve?

Slow down and take it one step at a time.

Very well put.

I would add that with skydiving you are basically folding a car cover, stuffing it into a napsack, and throwing it into a very strong hurricane.

There are a few things you can do to improve or interfere with a nice opening but a lot comes down to design. You have less control than we like to believe at times.

YMMV but this is my .02.

Go learn the important things like altitude awareness, pull priorities, and dealing with malfunctions if they happen to occur. Oh, and have fun with it.

"... this ain't a Nerf world."

[Pele2048 0]

Quote

You should most definitely learn about your gear. The more the better, in the long run. But could you rebuild a car before you got your driver's license?

Had to... My father gave me a 1976 Volvo 245DL Station wagon with a bad transmission and questionable engine... His words, "Whaddya want? It's a free car. Take it or get a job and buy your own car."

You gain a lot of appreciation for a car after you've put blood and sweat into it... Even if it is 6 yrs older than you and a complete rust bucket.

I actually will never buy a new car... Or one that will cost more than a few thousand dollars, ever in my life... Regardless of how much money I have. But that's another story for another section.

Quote

When you did your first tandem, did you watch them pack it before you jumped with your TI? If you did watch, did you have a clue what they were doing? I doubt it.

After you learn to pack, you will find out that it is not a big mystery how it all works. Until you actually learn to pack, you can't tell if a parachute is being packed properly so you are trusting the packer 100%.

What about your reserve?

Slow down and take it one step at a time.

Well, the reserve is packed by an FAA certified rigger, so I guess I trust the FAA...

I did watch people packing mains. All the employees of the company I trained with had a specific procedure of folding and putting rubber bands around the bundles of cords...

This as opposed to the people who brought their own gear. They were just shoving the canopy in the container.

I might not know much, but I do know that a neatly packed canopy where the lines are all bundles nicely will unfurl much smoother on deployment than one that's just balled up and shoved in the container.

Maybe I misspoke when I said I won't trust the packer... But I will watch.

[wolfriverjoe 1,341]

Quote

I did watch people packing mains. All the employees of the company I trained with had a specific procedure of folding and putting rubber bands around the bundles of cords...

This as opposed to the people who brought their own gear. They were just shoving the canopy in the container.

I might not know much, but I do know that a neatly packed canopy where the lines are all bundles nicely will unfurl much smoother on deployment than one that's just balled up and shoved in the container.

Maybe I misspoke when I said I won't trust the packer... But I will watch.

And this is where you are (at least a little bit) wrong.

The up-jumpers (with their own gear) were still packing correctly. How many malfunctions/cutaways happened while you were there?

They were still flaking and folding the canopy correctly, and stowing the lines correctly. Again, how many mals?

I'm guessing the ones you approved of were tandems. They pack a bit different than sport rigs. There's a couple extra steps.

The packers usually take extra time and care with the tandems because hard openings drive the TIs banannas. It's more of a comfort issue than a safety issue.
The tandem canopies are also a lot bigger, and require extra care.

It may look like someone packing a small canopy is just shaking it out, flopping it down and shoving it in the bag, but it really is more involved.
Plus some guys can pack really fast.

You'll have a better perspective after you learn how.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Pele2048 0]

^ Gotcha...

I'll learn as I go along... I just wanna get all the knowledge I can get on the ground.

[timmyfitz 0]

Quote

Well, the reserve is packed by an FAA certified rigger, so I guess I trust the FAA...

Just to put this in perspective for you, to become a rigger only requires a minimum of 20 reserves to be packed (*) before you are allowed to pack reserves for a paying customer. Also, there is no requirement that a rigger has to have ever made a jump. This in no way implies a new rigger is not capable and safe, just giving you some perspective.

*There are other requirement to become a rigger in addition to the packing requirements.

[ridestrong 1]

Quote

I might not know much, but I do know that a neatly packed canopy where the lines are all bundles nicely will unfurl much smoother on deployment than one that's just balled up and shoved in the container.

Not all together true... I can't speak from experience but I can't tell you how many times I've heard experienced jumpers say that some of their nicest openings were after some of their worst pack jobs. I have been packing a new canopy and it sure doesn't look pretty going into the d-bag but I've had good openings. In the end I'm with you... I certainly wouldn't start 'trash-packing' my canopy.

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[DrewEckhardt 0]

Quote

Quote

I might not know much, but I do know that a neatly packed canopy where the lines are all bundles nicely will unfurl much smoother on deployment than one that's just balled up and shoved in the container.

Not all together true... I can't speak from experience but I can't tell you how many times I've heard experienced jumpers say that some of their nicest openings were after some of their worst pack jobs.

When you can't consistently pack well there's some chance that whatever random changes you made will produce a better opening.

Personally I find it better to find what works well and repeat it neatly and consistently so nearly every opening fits in the "nicest" category.

It's faster too because a neatly folded canopy takes up less space and is therefore easier to bag. And since 6-7 minutes for a pack job leaves enough time to replace a couple of broken tube stows, pee, dirt-dive, and make the next load anything faster but sloppier wouldn't be an improvement.

[skyjumpenfool 2]

The beauty of this sport is... There is always something to learn. Take it one step at a time and don't be in too big a hurry. Talk to your instructor, they'll tell you where to start. Good luck, we all look forward to jumping with you.

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."