mostwanted 0 #1 April 1, 2006 i bought a Super Raven III (DOM 1990) to be may main-canopy. it was jumped as a reserve only until now - it was removed from the last owner's container last week. would you recommend an extensive examination by a rigger? is this necessary? in my country it is obligatory to make a reserve-repack every 6 months/year... ...so i guess it must be in quite good shape. what do you think? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vectracide 0 #2 April 1, 2006 Why in a million years would you as a new skydiver want to jump a 16 year old F-111 reserve canopy that has no flare? If is due to cost, you are buying for the wrong reasons. Get a main canopy that is designed to be a main canopy. Especially as a newer skydiver, you could benefit from having more of everything at your fingertips. ------------------------------ Controlled and Deliberate..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mostwanted 0 #3 April 1, 2006 QuoteWhy in a million years would you as a new skydiver want to jump a 16 year old F-111 reserve canopy that has no flare? sorry - i forgot to mention the reason for that: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2109414 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vectracide 0 #4 April 1, 2006 My opinion still stands. You asked on another thread and Tom Aiello gave you good info. With only 30 skydives, it would be a good idea to listen to someone of Tom's experience and stature in the BASE world. He will not steer you wrong. ------------------------------ Controlled and Deliberate..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mostwanted 0 #5 April 1, 2006 QuoteMy opinion still stands. You asked on another thread and Tom Aiello gave you good info. With only 30 skydives, it would be a good idea to listen to someone of Tom's experience and stature in the BASE world. He will not steer you wrong. yes, tom convinced/encouraged me to buy a Super Raven III - so i did (after getting a lot of input from various sources). but now i wonder if that canopy should/"must" be checked by a rigger before i use it as a main. i am looking forward to your recommendations. thank you for your efforts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #6 April 1, 2006 Austrian bureaucrats might care about inspecting you r"new" main, however,most riggers don't care. If it is in any other the "like new" condition, it should not have been in a reserve container. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MrBrant 0 #7 April 1, 2006 FWIW, I always do a full cell-by-cell inspection on any canopy I buy from somebody else. Then, I try to do this on a monthly basis. better to catch small problems before they become big ones. I also do this with my H/C. Ask your rigger to show you how to do a good inspection on a main canopy. Have fun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Vectracide 0 #8 April 1, 2006 QuoteAustrian bureaucrats might care about inspecting you r"new" main, however,most riggers don't care. If it is in any other the "like new" condition, it should not have been in a reserve container. So, Rob, in this guys best interest, would a reserve that is not good enough to be in a reserve tray, be good enough to be used as a main? I already have my own personal answer to this, but I would like it to be heard from a seasoned rigger. ------------------------------ Controlled and Deliberate..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites councilman24 36 #9 April 2, 2006 Who ever said this Super Raven wasn't good enough any longer to be a reserve? And yes, a Raven that has more than one jump as a main shouldn't be used as a reserve. But it is a perfectly acceptable MAIN. Super Ravens WERE designed to be main canopies and thousand and thousands of main jumps have been made on them. Including several hundred by me. Taking a Super Raven that somebody wants to retire as a reserve and installing it as a main is a perfectly resonable thing to do. I'd certainly would rather have somebody learn to fly a Raven as a skydiving main before using it or a similar non zp canopy for base jumping. There is NOTHING WRONG with a 7 cell, 0-3 cfm fabric main canopy. Is it the best that can be had? Maybe not, but maybe so for the application.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites councilman24 36 #10 April 2, 2006 The default answer it yes, have it checked by a rigger. If nothing else to make sure it's hooked up right. But, for somebody with more experience, if the canopy wasn't retired from reserve use for a specific cause and a rigger would have packed it up as a reserve, it obviously should be fine. Make sure it's hooked up right and go try it out. BUT, talk to somebody with experience on this type of canopy. You may very well have been using larger 9 cells or zp canopies. This canopy will flare differently. If you haven't been jumping a F-111 type 7 cell, then get some advice. And have fun!I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Vectracide 0 #11 April 2, 2006 No one said it wasn't good enough to be a reserve, that is why it was stated in a question from, not a statement. No one ever said it wasn't a good idea, but if you want to do BASE, the best canopy to learn on is a BASE canopy. Using a different canopy than he actual one you plan to BASE with is just not a good idea in my book. That would be like me training on my Xfire 109 for swoop comps, then on the day of competition using my Katana 107. Both fully elliptical non-crossbraced 9 cells. Now the real reason that were even discussing the airworthyness of this particular canopy for a main, is due to the prospective jumpers questions and concerns regarding the canopy. We are just discussing all options and considerations for a jumper with only 30+ jumps. Someone in this jump range really doesn't have the knowledge base to even know what questions to ask to make the best decision he can make. If you have 300 jumps on a raven, its 300 more than I have. But were not discussing the worthyness of the line or Ravens, were discussing the application in which it is being considered for here. There are better canopies for this guy. BASE canopies. Someone with 30 jumps cannot legitimately transfer his knowledge base from one canopy to the next unless he puts many many jumps on the canopy first, and spends more time in the sport jumping. Like if he jumped his Raven for 150 jumps, then went to a BASE canopy, maybe then he could gain something from jumping a similar canopy. When I had less than 100 jumps, I jumped around 3-4 different canopies. Did I think I knew what I was getting out of it by testing them? Sure I did. Now that I have 650 jumps, I realized that I really didn't know shit about the canopies I flew when I was sub 100. I guess that is my whole point here. I tend not to get it across as accurately as it is in my head the first time. ------------------------------ Controlled and Deliberate..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FlyinseivLP2 0 #12 April 2, 2006 There is nothing wrong with Ravens. The problem has been when the canopies are loaded over the max weight. This line of canopy does not seem to handle the overloading as well as other reserves might. A raven loaded at the appropriate weight would be just fine as a main. Also I don't base but I think most base jumper would disagree with you about this being a bad canopy to practice on. No it is not the same canopy he will be using on base jumps but he will be able to practice the skills he needs on this canopy and he will get similar results as he would on a base canopy. That will give him better canopy control for base than someone with twice his jumps under a Sabre II 170 IMO. Also IMO it would be stupid to buy a new Base Canopy and rag it out by putting 200 jumps on it before you ever use it for what it was intended. Put some jumps on it before you Base with it Yes, but almost all your skydives on that canopy I'm sure you would have a hard time finding more than a few who have done that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slotperfect 7 #13 April 3, 2006 A note for everyone . . . discussions in this forum about skydiving gear can be very productive, even when opposing opinions exist in the same thread. Please be objective and keep emotion out of your posts and leave the name calling to those at recdot.Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Vectracide 0 #8 April 1, 2006 QuoteAustrian bureaucrats might care about inspecting you r"new" main, however,most riggers don't care. If it is in any other the "like new" condition, it should not have been in a reserve container. So, Rob, in this guys best interest, would a reserve that is not good enough to be in a reserve tray, be good enough to be used as a main? I already have my own personal answer to this, but I would like it to be heard from a seasoned rigger. ------------------------------ Controlled and Deliberate..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #9 April 2, 2006 Who ever said this Super Raven wasn't good enough any longer to be a reserve? And yes, a Raven that has more than one jump as a main shouldn't be used as a reserve. But it is a perfectly acceptable MAIN. Super Ravens WERE designed to be main canopies and thousand and thousands of main jumps have been made on them. Including several hundred by me. Taking a Super Raven that somebody wants to retire as a reserve and installing it as a main is a perfectly resonable thing to do. I'd certainly would rather have somebody learn to fly a Raven as a skydiving main before using it or a similar non zp canopy for base jumping. There is NOTHING WRONG with a 7 cell, 0-3 cfm fabric main canopy. Is it the best that can be had? Maybe not, but maybe so for the application.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #10 April 2, 2006 The default answer it yes, have it checked by a rigger. If nothing else to make sure it's hooked up right. But, for somebody with more experience, if the canopy wasn't retired from reserve use for a specific cause and a rigger would have packed it up as a reserve, it obviously should be fine. Make sure it's hooked up right and go try it out. BUT, talk to somebody with experience on this type of canopy. You may very well have been using larger 9 cells or zp canopies. This canopy will flare differently. If you haven't been jumping a F-111 type 7 cell, then get some advice. And have fun!I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vectracide 0 #11 April 2, 2006 No one said it wasn't good enough to be a reserve, that is why it was stated in a question from, not a statement. No one ever said it wasn't a good idea, but if you want to do BASE, the best canopy to learn on is a BASE canopy. Using a different canopy than he actual one you plan to BASE with is just not a good idea in my book. That would be like me training on my Xfire 109 for swoop comps, then on the day of competition using my Katana 107. Both fully elliptical non-crossbraced 9 cells. Now the real reason that were even discussing the airworthyness of this particular canopy for a main, is due to the prospective jumpers questions and concerns regarding the canopy. We are just discussing all options and considerations for a jumper with only 30+ jumps. Someone in this jump range really doesn't have the knowledge base to even know what questions to ask to make the best decision he can make. If you have 300 jumps on a raven, its 300 more than I have. But were not discussing the worthyness of the line or Ravens, were discussing the application in which it is being considered for here. There are better canopies for this guy. BASE canopies. Someone with 30 jumps cannot legitimately transfer his knowledge base from one canopy to the next unless he puts many many jumps on the canopy first, and spends more time in the sport jumping. Like if he jumped his Raven for 150 jumps, then went to a BASE canopy, maybe then he could gain something from jumping a similar canopy. When I had less than 100 jumps, I jumped around 3-4 different canopies. Did I think I knew what I was getting out of it by testing them? Sure I did. Now that I have 650 jumps, I realized that I really didn't know shit about the canopies I flew when I was sub 100. I guess that is my whole point here. I tend not to get it across as accurately as it is in my head the first time. ------------------------------ Controlled and Deliberate..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyinseivLP2 0 #12 April 2, 2006 There is nothing wrong with Ravens. The problem has been when the canopies are loaded over the max weight. This line of canopy does not seem to handle the overloading as well as other reserves might. A raven loaded at the appropriate weight would be just fine as a main. Also I don't base but I think most base jumper would disagree with you about this being a bad canopy to practice on. No it is not the same canopy he will be using on base jumps but he will be able to practice the skills he needs on this canopy and he will get similar results as he would on a base canopy. That will give him better canopy control for base than someone with twice his jumps under a Sabre II 170 IMO. Also IMO it would be stupid to buy a new Base Canopy and rag it out by putting 200 jumps on it before you ever use it for what it was intended. Put some jumps on it before you Base with it Yes, but almost all your skydives on that canopy I'm sure you would have a hard time finding more than a few who have done that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #13 April 3, 2006 A note for everyone . . . discussions in this forum about skydiving gear can be very productive, even when opposing opinions exist in the same thread. Please be objective and keep emotion out of your posts and leave the name calling to those at recdot.Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
