Liability of DZ

[woady 0]

I was just curious and I know there is a wealth of knowledge out there on this forum so please contribute.

I'm pretty new to Skydiving, I've been to a few different drop zones and often times people will spend the night on the drop zone. I'm sure this is very beneficial traveling jumpers and local jumpers from using up too much gas, but what are the responsibilities of the squatting jumpers, or squatting non-jumpers, and the drop zones they stay on?

I don't know what goes and what doesn't and I think it would be beneficial to ask so everyone else has a general understanding if they do spend the night.

I think, and its just my opinion, but skydiving is some people's lives and livelihood, and they live on their drop zones. I also see others spending the night so they don't have to drive home or get a hotel room. It seems like, at times, some people take advantage of this and its really unfair for those who really live on the DZ especially if it puts the workers, managers, and owners of the DZ in a liability situation should anything bad happen. I know a majority of people staying on the DZ are good people and I don't want this to get misconstrued, but what are DZs general rules about staying over night and unwarranted behavior?

Thanks in advance to those who contribute. If you'd like to say something in private just PM me please! Ya'll rock btw.

You know what's similar between Cops and Firefighters? They both wanna be firefighters.

[goofyjumper 0]

It is great to be able to stay at a dz because most of them are far from home and it is the best option, especially if you have been drinking.

Remember, most people skydive on the weekend and it is their best option to stay on the dz. If a DZO told everyone they could not sleep on a dz, then they probably would not have much business.

-----------------
I love and Miss you so much Honey!
Orfun #3 ~ Darla

[MajorDad 0]

Depends on who owns the land, what their rules are and the culture of the Dropzone.

Some Dropzones are on Airports that wont even allow a firepit let alone overnight camping.

My home dropzone is located on a farmers field with the usual Skydiver Trailer Park that keeps getting bigger and bigger. The bonfire is quite active after jumping is done and people are encouraged to come and stay out for the weekend.

However, there is the understanding that there are neighbors that live close and we want good relations with them (even Farmer McNasty to the north).

Skydiving is pretty self policing and more than a few people wear out their welcomes and asked to pack up their stuff and move on. Especially if they are parasites or are a danger to themselves or others.

Blue ones

Major Dad
CSPA D-579

[CSpenceFLY 1]

I think that many DZOs think that since everyone has signed the waiver that it is going to save them form everything. I don't think the waiver should be tested in this way.

As for what goes and what doesn't, that would depend on where you are. Some DZs put up with more then others. Some DZs are on private property and more is allowed, which is odd to me because the property owner has alot to loose if things go bad.

I have seen some stupid shit in the 9 years I have been jumping. I have seen people come closer to killing themselves at night then while jumping during the day. I have seen people drive on the runway in broad daylight, I have seen people almost run over people laying on the runway at night, I have seen a car burned on a public airport, I have seen drunk people climbing the airport beacon(and turning it off),I have seen cars run off the end of the runway(that one almost killed three people)

It seems to me that some people today show up just to see if they can fuck things up and more often then not there is not someone in the crowd to keep that from happening.

There is a new DZ every year at risk of loosing their home and the people that want them gone use this kind of stuff to get them thrown off the airport.

Party on!!! I hope you run out of Stupid before you run out of Time.

[Butters 0]

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Party on!!! I hope you run out of Stupid before you run out of Time.

Or before you do something that causes the DZO to stop allowing me to pitch a tent at the DZ ...

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[woady 0]

Thanks for the feedback. I agree its awesome that people are allowed to spend the night on DZ, whether on airport DZs or private DZs. I just don't want to see anyone do stupid shit that causes DZs to get in trouble and not allow this, or worse, get someone or themselves injured or killed.

If your going to be stupid, you gotta be tough.

You know what's similar between Cops and Firefighters? They both wanna be firefighters.

[iambeav2 0]

Though not as long as you, I've witnessed ALMOST all of those events...entertaining at the time of drunken thought...until something happens. Watched a guy drop a beer bottle from the top of the beacon and hit the guy on the bottom about to climb up...everyone got sober REAL quick...

...it's not the fact that you don't appreciate what you have until it's gone...it's the fact that you don't appreciate what you have until someone appreciates it for you!

[Squeak 17]

I think the liability of the DZ should be the same for any instituion/business/corporation.

If you allow stupid shit to be conducted on you premises then you need to accept some of the responsibilty when it all turns to shit and people get hurt or die

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[virgin-burner 1]

its all adult, self-responsible people, inst it!?

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[Squeak 17]

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its all adult, self-responsible people, inst it!?

Yes and it's the responsibilty of the DZO, to make certain that the DZ is a safe place for everyone, even after hours

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[AggieDave 6]

Add to the list:

A drunken idiot shooting a firearm at the bonfire, with a lot of people sleeping in tents within about 50yrds of the fire.

Lets just say that it pissed me off to no end. On the upside the idiot was kicked off the DZ staff that morning.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[virgin-burner 1]

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its all adult, self-responsible people, inst it!?

Yes and it's the responsibilty of the DZO, to make certain that the DZ is a safe place for everyone, even after hours

now you're putting the responsibility to the dzo. is the concept of self-responsibility so hard to grasp?

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[Squeak 17]

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its all adult, self-responsible people, inst it!?

Yes and it's the responsibilty of the DZO, to make certain that the DZ is a safe place for everyone, even after hours

now you're putting the responsibility to the dzo. is the concept of self-responsibility so hard to grasp?

No not at all i fully understand the concept. But the DZO themselves fall under that category of SELF. They need to ensure (to the best of their ability) that the DZ is a safe place to be.
That means taking action when people and things are about that will make the DZ NOT a safe place.
To many people stand back and wait until something bad happens then they say well those people should self regulate.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[shropshire 0]

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its all adult, self-responsible people, inst it!?

Exactly.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[popsjumper 2]

Having someone be the conduct police is idealistic and totally unworkable when nobody, and I man nobody, can be everywhere at once ensuring anything. That would take a virtual army of cops posted on every corner.

Self-responsibility. Great concept. Somewhere, sometime, you have to responsibility for yourself.
You want to do stupid shit? You're gonna find a time and place to do it. You should at least be man enough to take what happens as a result of your stupidity.

Case in point.
Back in the day they opened El Capitan for base jumping. There were rules to abide by with the Parks people. Within a week, idiots blew it wide open doing unauthorized jumps, tearing up the park roads and trashing the place...jumping was prohibited very, very shortly afterwards.

So, in this case, your line of thought would have had the parks people monitoring every inch of the park ensuring the rules were followed. Do some research and find out what the Parks people said about that.


edited to add: The stupid "I know more about what you want than you do" computer system made "base jumping" a link. I did not.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[shropshire 0]

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its all adult, self-responsible people, inst it!?

Yes and it's the responsibilty of the DZO, to make certain that the DZ is a safe place for everyone, even after hours

Within the bounds of reason, only. When people do daft shit, that's their responsability, no one elses.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[CSpenceFLY 1]

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its all adult, self-responsible people, inst it!?

Yes and it's the responsibilty of the DZO, to make certain that the DZ is a safe place for everyone, even after hours

The only way for the DZO to do that is to force everyone off of the DZ at night, because people do not self police anymore.

[Squeak 17]

and as ussual we have selective editing and quoting both you and Andy excluded the part of my post

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They need to ensure (to the best of their ability) that the DZ is a safe place to be.
That means taking action when people and things are about that will make the DZ NOT a safe place.

That means that DZO boot people (including staff) when thery do stupid hazardous shit on the DZ. Not just wait unilt stupid and hazardous becomes someone hurt or killed.

I'm well aware that no one can constantly police everthing but often too little is done and often too late. The less stupidity that is tollerated the less likey a repeat performances will occur

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[CSpenceFLY 1]

I quoted your post in full. Maybe you should go back and read what you wrote.

[Squeak 17]

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I quoted your post in full. Maybe you should go back and read what you wrote.

Maybe you should read a little further down the page, then your post would not be redundant

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Whatever, I responded to what I wanted to. I'm angry and I have ADD, I can't read those long posts.

[Squeak 17]

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Whatever, I responded to what I wanted to. I'm angry and I have ADD, I can't read those long posts.

OK, that's the sort of reasoning i can accept

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[NWFlyer 2]

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I think that many DZOs think that since everyone has signed the waiver that it is going to save them form everything.

Leaving aside whether a waiver truly would protect a DZO for all the after-hours stuff that takes place, I wonder do DZOs really believe that everyone on their property after hours has signed a waiver?

Fred Sand at Lost Prairie has had to be very specific about that in the last few years - although I'm sure some people slip through the cracks, the policy during the boogie is very specific - overnight camping is limited to registered skydivers and guests. That means if you want to be there overnight, you've registered and waivered.

A big part of that is to control the crowd of rowdy, troublemaking local kids that shows up every year that tends to cause more problems than the skydivers ever do (but which also probably goads the skydivers into some bad behavior as well). Having that policy in place allows the DZ to say "sorry, skydivers and registered guests only, you'll need to leave."

But should something happen, I would hope that it also would give Fred some measure of protection if the person that caused the problem was someone outside of the skydivers/registered guests group because there was a very clear policy in place (and security there to help enforce it) that these people were not supposed to be on the property in the first place.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[CSpenceFLY 1]

That is one reason we started to require the guests to register in Dublin.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

I think there is an argument that the DZ becomes a campground after hours. There must be case law out there that addresses the scope of liability of the campground owner when their guests misbehave. I wonder if charging a fee changes anything.