Do wealthy or powerful people get better treatment?

[JohnMitchell 14]

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I'm questioning why people who have money are valued higher than people who don't. Status, which is shown in our society by how much nice stuff you have, is more important than people. Gaining the stuff that gets you respect is the name of the game. Even if getting all that stuff means you're constantly working or taking advantage of other people (especially those who can't fight back), or even breaking laws -

I'm seeing your point a little more clearly. We all have our own personal value systems. I have more respect for those who contribute to society than those who rule the society, or just the society pages. I have little to no interest in Jaylo, Bennifer, Paris, or any of those other People magazine types that rule so many people's consciousness. I would not walk across the street to see Madonna or the Olsen twins. Other people are fascinated by these folks. Maybe it's that they envy their lifestyle. I wouldn't mind it, but I'm happy where I am. Maybe they secretly delight in the woes of the rich and famous, or feel connected to them just by reading about them. Once again, I have enough in my life that I don't need that remote thrill. Many of my whuffo friends go on for hours about overpaid, over spoiled, ungrateful pro athletes. My sports heroes are almost all underpaid skydivers.

I think our society does recognize great people over merely rich, high achieving philanthropists over the robber barons. It's just that money does still secure a certain position in society, and many people are fascinated with the stuff that money can buy. I try not to be fooled, but some don't care.

Why do you care whom others hold in high regard? Remember, never argue with idiots. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience every time.

[-Scatter- 0]

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I'm questioning why people who have money are valued higher than people who don't.

Fundementally, because they pay the bills. We sold a bunch of stuff this week to a builder of $750,000 limousines. No one on earth needs a $750,000 limo. But, if it wasn't for the fact that someone somewhere decided they wanted touchscreen controlled LED lighting in their limo, I might not have money to jump this month.

Its not a flaw in human nature, its pure survival. Given limited hours in the day, I'm giving better service to the guy who is routinely coming in with a $1000 order than the guy with a $15 one.

[chinagirl 0]

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So did you open this thread just to let people know that you have money. Sounds like a sideways brag to me. Sorry but I'm not impressed.
And the answer to your question is obviously Of course. Just look at O.J. Simpson. You can all but cut your x wifes head off and spend the rest of your life doing a golf course to golf course search for the "real killer." Sorry if this sounds so negative but I have no respect whatsoever for rich, arrogant people.

WOW PEOPLE! I did not mean to brag, I used to have lots of money, My first exwife has it all now. I apologize to all if thats the way it was taken. My thread was meant in gest to the "Good Looking People Thread" I fucked that up royal. Simply put, there are different "un said" rules for all kinds of people and classes. Pleas eaccept my most humble apologies people

Just admit it. You're a SNOB! Hard to respect a man that actually think Tila Tequila is hot!

~Built for Abuse
www.skydivethefarm.com

[popsjumper 2]

Yes. They do. They buy most of it and the rest of it is given to them in homage by the less wealthy or powerful.

Contrary to Livendive Dave's statement, difficulty of work has nothing to do with becoming more wealthy and/or powerful.


As an aside, money doesn't buy happiness? Damn! That's something I would like to find out for myself...try me one time...just one time.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[rehmwa 2]

I don't get this thread at all.

People are pretty much the same deep down regardless of income or any other factor.

"Treatment" is simply a matter of what an individual is willing to pay for. You get the service you pay for.

the airline example, if someone poor scrapes up the fare for 1st class, then they'll get first class - just like the rich guy that scrapes up enough for the seat right next to him. simple enough

our country is neat that way, people offer services and sell them to anyone that'll pay for it



now, those who have 'power' side of the question - sometimes the powerful get freebies from others on the hope of payback someday or trading favors - this is definitely a perk, sucks if you aren't powerful. I don't know it's right or wrong, either, it's just the status quo. What's the solution for those that resent it? either make everybody powerful (and then no one is); or is it to just tear down those that have gain some level of personal power?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[skybytch 259]

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Given limited hours in the day, I'm giving better service to the guy who is routinely coming in with a $1000 order than the guy with a $15 one.

Why not give the same service to both? You never know, the guy with the $15 order today might need $10k worth of stuff in the near future; how he's treated on that $15 order may be a decision point in who he places that $10k order with.

It's also likely that the guy routinely coming in with a $1000 order will be taking his orders elsewhere if he can get it for $950 no matter how good you treat him. Nuthin' personal, of course, just a matter of pure survival...

[skybytch 259]

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Why do you care whom others hold in high regard?

Because how the majority of people think is what rules our society. If the majority of people start thinking that who people really are is more important than the size of their bank accounts (or debtloads), how might society change?

I think people of all income levels would be happier and more financially secure than they are now. Instead of buying everything they can make their money stretch to pay for every month, they'd buy what they needed. They might spend the rest on doing things they love or they might donate to charity. Or they may even reduce the amount of time they work so they can enjoy that time with their loved ones.

I don't see any downsides to such a world. Yes, I'm sure my logic is flawed but since it's my idealistic fantasy world it can be illogical if I want.

[kkeenan 13]

Is OJ in jail ?

_____________________________________
Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[JohnMitchell 14]

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I think people of all income levels would be happier and more financially secure than they are now. Instead of buying everything they can make their money stretch to pay for every month, they'd buy what they needed. They might spend the rest on doing things they love or they might donate to charity.

That's what we do already. That's what you can do if you want. As skydivers, we've already shown that we won't live up(down) to society's norms. Good luck educating the masses. They need their $4 latte and the day at the spa.

[JohnMitchell 14]

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As an aside, money doesn't buy happiness? Damn! That's something I would like to find out for myself...try me one time...just one time.

True, money doesn't buy happiness, but it lets you shop in better places for it.

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Why not give the same service to both? You never know, the guy with the $15 order today might need $10k worth of stuff in the near future; how he's treated on that $15 order may be a decision point in who he places that $10k order with.

It's also likely that the guy routinely coming in with a $1000 order will be taking his orders elsewhere if he can get it for $950 no matter how good you treat him. Nuthin' personal, of course, just a matter of pure survival...

For your first point, because providing service costs me money. If I'm making $3 on a guy, I can't afford to spend $100 to make that $3. If I'm making $400 on the other guy, then I CAN afford to spend the $100 on service. This is the crux of why wealthy people get better treatment.

The $15 guy isn't going to come up with a $10,000 order. I know, because someone who is in a position to spend $10,000 will make that known as soon as possible in the interchange. I do the same thing when I'm ordering if I'm potentially valuable to some other business.

I'm a manufacturer not a retailer. If someone else is offering my products cheaper, they're either a dealer of mine (which is fine, we don't undersell our dealers) or they're a competitor who has figured out how to do it cheaper, in which canse I'd better go back to product design and figure out how to make it for $950. Again, survival.

[MattMazzocco 0]

I grew up poor. Dad got an education and worked hard as hell to open up his own dental practice. All of a sudden we were rich. Now my dad works 20 hour weeks and makes plenty of money, thats all anybody sees. They dont see the countless hours he put into establishing himself, the money he spent paying for college, kids, and opening up a practice all one after another.

Now I myself am not a "Wealthy" guy, i own a nice small buisness and i hang in the 6 figure area, but I had to bust my ass for the last 4 years to get there. The other day some guy was commenting on how much money i blow at the DZ and on other fun things i waste my money on, and then continued to tell me that i probably had it all given to me and never had to work a day in my life. Before i even had a chance to comment he started ranting about how he hates people with money so i just stopped listening and went about my day.

It is MY opinion that most negativity about money comes from people who have none. Some people may bust their ass and make pennies. Where I run my business i watch people bust their asses all day long to make 50 bucks, while i make 70 on 1 job that takes me less than 15 minutes to complete. They work 500% harder than i could even pretend to work, yet they make less in 1 year than i owe in taxes quarterly.

Does this make me a bad person? Does this make me anything more or less at all? No, it makes me someone who found a niche and exploited it, and because of it i have been rewarded with easy work and high income. Should i not enjoy the money? Should i feel bad if i want to fly first class? I dont think so at all.

You get what you work for and if you are smart enough, you wont work for low wages and you will either educate yourself and find a career, or pray to god your lucky like i was and find a way to make alot of money without working too hard. If you dont like digging ditches, and you hate how much money you make, find another job. Dont get mad at someone who chose a different path than you.

[billvon 2,406]

>Why shouldn't John the Ditchdigger get a wider, more comfortable seat . . .

Because space on aircraft costs money, and if he wants the $99 special he's going to be shoehorned into the smallest space available. Upgrades are, of course, available. If he doesn't like that, the bus is an excellent choice.

> I'll bet John works as hard or harder than Joe the CEO does.

Absolutely.

>What makes Joe more worthy of physical comfort than John?

Joe makes more money; he is worth more. He exchanges that worth for more space than John does.

Note that John can buy a first class ticket if he chooses to. Or he might choose not to and buy more beer instead. His choice.

>Some rich and powerful people aren't asshats. Some working class
>people are. How about rewarding people for not being asshats instead of
>for having a lot of money?

Go for it! Give them free gear, or whatever else you can do for them.

But at the end of the day, airlines have to buy jet-A and new 767's - and neither Exxon nor Boeing will give you credit for non-asshat passengers.

(This is not to say that airlines don't appreciate people who are good to them. I once got a first class upgrade for breaking up a fight between an irate customer and a flight attendant. But in general, you gotta pay for what you get, whether it's a fancy car, a nice house, or two seats worth of room on an aircraft.)

[skybytch 259]

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Joe makes more money; he is worth more.

Looking beyond the spending of money or the doing of business, Joe is not worth more than John in any way other than economically. Joe's large bank account does not make him a better person than John is. And yet even in situations where money is not a factor, society says that Joe's large bank account really does make him a better person than John is.

And we're all brainwashed into believing that Joe is somehow entitled to special treatment because he has money and that it's John's own damn fault he doesn't make beyond a subsistence income, if he'd only work harder or smarter or get lucky...

The more reading of history that I do, the more I want to liken capitalism to religion. Challenging it sure does provoke some interesting responses.

[Shotgun 1]

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The more reading of history that I do, the more I want to liken capitalism to religion.

You know, I have my problems with capitalism too. But, as much as I've thought about it, I've yet to come up with a better alternative. Socialism sounds ideal to me, but it's simply not in our nature to make it work in an ideal manner. It's not in our nature to make capitalism work in an ideal manner either, but we're probably better off living in a corrupt capitalist system than in a corrupt socialist system.

[billvon 2,406]

>Joe is not worth more than John in any way other than economically.
> Joe's large bank account does not make him a better person than John is.

Agreed. It also does not make him a worse person. It just makes him a person who can afford first class airline seats.

>And we're all brainwashed into believing that Joe is somehow entitled
>to special treatment because he has money . . .

At a personal level, he is entitled to whatever special treatment he is willing to buy, as John is.

However, at a societal level, John is treated far better than Joe. John is eligible for food stamps, medicare and utility assistance. He qualifies for low income housing that Joe is excluded from. And the money to do this comes from Joe's taxes. In a way, society is penalizing Joe for being rich and giving that money to John as a bonus for being poor.

This is true at the local level as well. When rich skydivers get injured, people call them, visit them at the hospital etc. But when poor skydivers get hurt, we go a step beyond that and organize fundraisers, auctions, T-shirt sales etc - and in some cases give them tens of thousands of dollars.

Is this a bad thing? I don't think so. It's basically economic compassion, and I am glad it's there (in most cases.)

Now, do rich people have more power? Often, they do - because their wealth is part of an economy that benefits others, and others want a part of that wealth too.

Are they more respected? Depends. If the money comes from their hard work, intelligence and diligence - then yes, they are generally respected for it. If they are born into it, and do nothing but spend it - then in my experience they're not respected for it.

>And we're all brainwashed into believing that Joe is somehow entitled
>to special treatment because he has money and that it's John's own
>damn fault he doesn't make beyond a subsistence income . . .

Hmm. And yet as a society we give the explicit perks to John.

You've worked in various gear stores. Did you give gear to people who needed it the most, or people who were morally superior to others? Or did you sell gear to people who were willing to pay for it?

[skybytch 259]

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However, at a societal level, John is treated far better than Joe.

Haven't talked to John lately, have you?

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John is eligible for food stamps, medicare and utility assistance.

The process involved in getting food stamps, medical help or even utility assistance is extremely dehumanizing; besides the cattle car feeling, you are also forced to give up your financial privacy. The medical "care" is often of questionable quality. The stigma that goes along with using food stamps or receiving subsidized medical care is also dehumanizing. That's why lots of people like John don't get food stamps and why they wait until it's an absolute emergency before they get medical attention.

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He qualifies for low income housing that Joe is excluded from.

Good thing, cuz I doubt Joe would be willing to live amongst crime and violence like John does - he doesn't have to because he can afford to live in a gated community where the likes of John aren't allowed (except as laborers, of course).

I'm not saying that this type of privilege is wrong, I'm merely pointing out that it exists. Although I do think that being able to feel safe in your home shouldn't be tied to how much money you make.

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And the money to do this comes from Joe's taxes.

John pays taxes too - sales tax, property tax (if he's lucky enough to own some property - ie he doesn't live in California), fuel tax, vehicle registration tax... Taken together, I'd bet that taxes eat up clsoe to the same percentage of John's income that they do Joe's. When discussing tax burden on individuals, isn't the percentage of income needed to pay them what is important?

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And yet as a society we give the explicit perks to John.

I don't buy that. Not in a world where Joe can blatantly break laws in pursuit of profit and get only a slap on the hand while John is being searched on the side of the road because he fits the profile of a meth addict, and for all the reasons I mentioned above.

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You've worked in various gear stores. Did you give gear to people who needed it the most, or people who were morally superior to others? Or did you sell gear to people who were willing to pay for it?

Not sure why people seem to think that challenging capitalism and class structure means that I think everything should be free, but anyway. Of course I didn't give away gear, I doubt I'd have had a job for very long if I had.

But I also don't think I treated people any differently based on how much gear they were buying. I know I wasn't very nice to some assholes who didn't deserve niceness though...

[billvon 2,406]

>Haven't talked to John lately, have you?

I bet John does not like being poor. I wouldn't like it - which is why I made sure it didn't happen. I am sure some people are happy to live like that - but again, their choice.

>The process involved in getting food stamps, medical help or even
>utility assistance is extremely dehumanizing; besides the cattle car
>feeling, you are also forced to give up your financial privacy.

Yep. Sorta like flying commercial. (Except that comes with more strip searches.)

>I'm not saying that this type of privilege is wrong, I'm merely pointing
>out that it exists. Although I do think that being able to feel safe in your
>home shouldn't be tied to how much money you make.

OTOH, a big expensive house is a better target for a common thief than a shack.

>John pays taxes too - sales tax, property tax (if he's lucky enough
>to own some property - ie he doesn't live in California), fuel tax, vehicle
>registration tax... Taken together, I'd bet that taxes eat up clsoe to the
>same percentage of John's income that they do Joe's.

Unlikely. Some people here pay nearly 50% of their income in federal, state and local taxes. I have a friend who prepares income taxes, and several of his pro bono clients owe nothing due to their low income.

Now on top of all that you add sales tax - for both of them. Fuel tax and registration tax - again, for both of them. (Unless Joe can't afford a car, in which case he does not pay that.) Joe is going to pay a tiny fraction of what John pays.

>Of course I didn't give away gear, I doubt I'd have had a job for
>very long if I had.

Exactly. To use the above language, you decided that people with low incomes didn't deserve new gear for your own selfish reasons (making money.) It's something most of us do every day.

>But I also don't think I treated people any differently based on how
>much gear they were buying.

You treated them VERY differently! You didn't sell them gear if they couldn't pay for it. Ask yourself if giving them free gear (which they no doubt deserve as much as a rich jumper does) would make them more happy.

Now, I think you meant that you didn't respect them any more or less, and that is true for both you and for most of the people I know. Indeed, the opposite is often true. At Perris, for example, the Fury team members make next to nothing (and indeed sell T-shirts with wry comments about their financial situation) and are among the most respected people at the DZ. The people who show up occasionally, flash money around, buy brand new gear and argue with Dave Span over what new canopy they should buy (they always want a smaller one than is wise) are treated with bemusement.