Jackpunx 0 #1 December 20, 2005 I have been looking for gear since I have figured out what size canopy I was going to commit to for a while.. Everything I have found has been more than 4k.. If Im going to pay 4500.. why not buy new? I found something for 45.. but I think it’s a little to much for something made in 02 My budget is 3kish.. If I found a great deal on somthing.. I could bring it up to 4.. but it has to be perfect for that.. Im 5 10 170 looking for fully articulated with 17" main lift web.. that’s at least what I have been jumping and for the most part it fits pretty good. I want to buy a pilot 168 to jump for a while.. but want the option to downsize to Pre 150.. So I think something that is made for a 150 will work Do you think I’m asking to much? thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spatula 0 #2 December 20, 2005 I cannot comment on the rig size/spec/cost etc....but I'm having a hell of a time finding a used AAD for a reasonable price. Once you take into account the asking price (or negotiated price) shipping, maintenance that needs to be done, etc...your only a few bucks short of new cost. It's frustrating to say the least. In the end I'm going to end up buying a new AAD. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #3 December 20, 2005 only looking for complete systems ?? or also looking for "parts" to assemble a system ??scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdrejhon 8 #4 December 20, 2005 Sounds like you'd be the perfect person for my gear....if only I was selling. (Of course, it may not be perfect -- not very freefly friendly, instructor may recommend something else, etc) I got a used Vector 2 rig with a Sabre 170, with room to downsize to a 150. Already has a Cypres2 AAD and I got the whole rig for around 3k-ish (USD) including the Cypres2 with 10 years left. But I need to jump this for quite some time yet...so keep looking....but rigs like these have existed on the market, just snapped up pretty quickly by newbies so you may have to call dropzones directly and cast a wider net rather than solely looking at online classifieds. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #5 December 20, 2005 QuoteI have been looking for gear since I have figured out what size canopy I was going to commit to for a while.. Everything I have found has been more than 4k.. If Im going to pay 4500.. why not buy new? I found something for 45.. but I think it’s a little to much for something made in 02 My budget is 3kish.. If I found a great deal on somthing.. I could bring it up to 4.. but it has to be perfect for that.. Im 5 10 170 looking for fully articulated with 17" main lift web.. that’s at least what I have been jumping and for the most part it fits pretty good. I want to buy a pilot 168 to jump for a while.. but want the option to downsize to Pre 150.. So I think something that is made for a 150 will work Do you think I’m asking to much? thanks Yes. You need to less picky about your first rig. Articulation? Not necessary to learn how to jump. Only Pilot 168? Not only main on the market. Not sure what othe parameters you have but the Pilot hasn't been out very long. So older less expensive ones aren't going to exist. Also, partly because of marketing, a lot of people (like you?) want one. I'd suggest concentrating on a harness that fits, a main that is appropriate for your size and experience (Pilot isn't the only one), any modern reserve, and a middle age cypres.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #6 December 20, 2005 For cypres', go to SSK's site. They have a value calculator there. Plug in the numbers, some depend on your area. Service is $180 including shipping. Batteries $75 to $90 depending on where you get them. New price, I use $950 for original cypres because that's what I remember them selling for when discontinued. They went everywhere from $800 to $1250 over their life. Don't forget the trade in value. Then offer the seller what you get from the program or ask why theirs is worth more. I haven't seen any going for "new" price.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jackpunx 0 #7 December 20, 2005 QuoteQuoteI have been looking for gear since I have figured out what size canopy I was going to commit to for a while.. Everything I have found has been more than 4k.. If Im going to pay 4500.. why not buy new? I found something for 45.. but I think it’s a little to much for something made in 02 My budget is 3kish.. If I found a great deal on somthing.. I could bring it up to 4.. but it has to be perfect for that.. Im 5 10 170 looking for fully articulated with 17" main lift web.. that’s at least what I have been jumping and for the most part it fits pretty good. I want to buy a pilot 168 to jump for a while.. but want the option to downsize to Pre 150.. So I think something that is made for a 150 will work Do you think I’m asking to much? thanks Yes. You need to less picky about your first rig. Articulation? Not necessary to learn how to jump. Only Pilot 168? Not only main on the market. Not sure what othe parameters you have but the Pilot hasn't been out very long. So older less expensive ones aren't going to exist. Also, partly because of marketing, a lot of people (like you?) want one. I'd suggest concentrating on a harness that fits, a main that is appropriate for your size and experience (Pilot isn't the only one), any modern reserve, and a middle age cypres. LOL.. well there it there.. The reason I am looking for those specific things are.. I have rented almost every other rig.. with and with out hip and chest rings.. I have jumped a spectre, sabre2 and a pilot.. I like the Pilot best.. the Mirage that was fully articulated fits the best and is the most comfortable.. so .. I have tasted the fruit ..LOL.. I don’t want to go backwards.. I actually just got off the phone with Mirage.. they said they could probably get fully fitted and brand new for 4-4500.. So.. I might bite that.. but would much rather spend less and jump more this is with a ADD cypress Its kinda like skiing.. If your cold.. Its no fun.. So having gear that fits and is comfortable makes it a little more interesting.. I think I have myself talked into it already..LOL But if any of you find me something. I’ll pay a finders fee Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #8 December 20, 2005 Glad you could chuckle. I really do recommend buying used for your first rig. Save the drive it off the lot depreciation. Buy it, pass it to the next newbie when your ready. We have rigs around here that I've serviced for 3 or 4 owners. Or, go for the gold and buy new. Looks like you HAVE talked yourself into it. But check on the delivery dates. I don't know what Pilots and Mirages are running.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazydiver 0 #9 December 20, 2005 Do you freefly? You can't tell the difference between articulated and non-articulated on your belly and on the ground. I have one rig articulated and one not and I have no real preference of the two. Webbing is made to flex just like the rings. Cheers, Travis Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #10 December 20, 2005 If you're going to be picky, you need to either bite the bullet and buy new or continue renting until the right deal comes along. If you want to save a bit of coin but still insist on a Mirage and a Pilot, buy those two items new. Don't drop $1200+ on a new Cypres2; instead, find a used Cypres with less than 4 years left on it (savings - $800+). Don't drop $900+ on a new reserve when you can find used ones for $600 or less. You can easily put a 150 in a container sized for a 170; in most containers you could safely go down to a 135. I would not suggest putting a 170 - especially a NEW 170 - in a container sized for a 150. You won't like packing it and some packers at Perris will refuse to pack it for you (trust me on this one; they've refused to pack my Spectre 170 into a container that was built for a 170 because "it's too tight" ). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #11 December 20, 2005 QuoteYou can't tell the difference between articulated and non-articulated on your belly and on the ground. Maybe you can't, but I can. I've owned and jumped both; I find articulated to be much more comfortable from the time I put it on until the time I take it off, regardless of what body position I'm falling in. It could be a gender thing though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NelKel 0 #12 December 20, 2005 I want to buy a pilot 168 to jump for a while.. but want the option to downsize to Pre 150.. So I think something that is made for a 150 will work Do you think I’m asking to much? <<<<<<< ------------------------------------------------------ My buddy did just that, he bought a used J-2. If I'm not mistaken that is sized for a 150 main. He owned a Sabre190. The reason I know this is because he couldn't bag it for himself. He may have had 50-80 jumps and just could't finess the canopy into the bag. Later he downsized to a Pilot 168 which was new. He still couldn't bag it. I think it was more because of the canopy being new, than it being too big for the contianer. I think you asking for too much......especialy for your first rig. (4 grand ?) Buy what is cheap, save the $ for jumps to get more experience, and in 6 months you may not even want, what you want now! I paid $1500 for my first rig, I bought it at 18 jumps, it was a Dolphin, with a PD190 and a Tempo170. The canopies were in my target area but more importantly the rig fit well. Later when I had more experience, I ordered new gear. Just my $.02_________________________________________ Someone dies, someone says how stupid, someone says it was avoidable, someone says how to avoid it, someone calls them an idiot, someone proposes rule chan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #13 December 20, 2005 New bundles of rig+pilot+reserve are advertized in Parachutist and Skydiving for just above 3, depending on the container. If you can find a cheap used AAD, you can go all new, use a single vendor, and not go too high past 3. But finding the AAD can be challenging - I gave up and got an almost new one. Blew past the target budget, but that item doesn't depreciate. In 6 years it will be worth what a 6yo used one now is worth. OTOH, it's much easier to find a complete used rig sized for 170s than it is for 210s or 230s. You can always then upgrade to a Pilot during the winter sales. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jackpunx 0 #14 December 20, 2005 It looks like I found something... Brand new G3 with all the bells and whissles, new reserve PD 160, used cypress, slightly used Pilot 168 (6 jump demo), Rigged and on my doorstep for under 4k.. Im pretty happy.. should have it on paper this afternoon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites IanHarrop 37 #15 December 20, 2005 This isn't exactly what you're looking for but... for a starter rig that you may well change in 2 years. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/detail_page.cgi?ID=29654&d=1"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jackpunx 0 #16 December 20, 2005 QuoteThis isn't exactly what you're looking for but... for a starter rig that you may well change in 2 years. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/detail_page.cgi?ID=29654&d=1 Thanks for the link I’m downsizing to a 168 next week. Im thinking I'll stay there for a while (about 2-300 jumps and see if I want to downsize from there.. the 170 puts me at a 1:1 I have been averaging about 30 jumps a month.. and have been able to do everything on the downsizing checklist (on a 188) except landing up or down hill. So my comfort level with the 168 is pretty good. I don’t see myself becoming extremely aggressive close to the ground. Im going to take a canopy class and master that before deciding if I want to move lower. The container should support something in the 140 range.. so I think it’s a good all around fit that will last me a while. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 24 #17 December 20, 2005 QuoteI don’t see myself becoming extremely aggressive close to the ground With all this talk about minimum size and standards, this is what scares me the most... You need to be able to do aggressive corrections close to the ground. Using a canopy that you feel fine under if you dont turn below 500 feet wont do you much good when someone cuts you off at 100 feet.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RMURRAY 1 #18 December 20, 2005 QuoteI have been looking for gear since I have figured out what size canopy I was going to commit to for a while.. Everything I have found has been more than 4k.. If Im going to pay 4500.. why not buy new? I found something for 45.. but I think it’s a little to much for something made in 02 My budget is 3kish.. If I found a great deal on somthing.. I could bring it up to 4.. but it has to be perfect for that.. Im 5 10 170 looking for fully articulated with 17" main lift web.. that’s at least what I have been jumping and for the most part it fits pretty good. I want to buy a pilot 168 to jump for a while.. but want the option to downsize to Pre 150.. So I think something that is made for a 150 will work Do you think I’m asking to much? thanks there is a ton of used stuff. buy each piece separate so you get exactly what you want. the container is the tough one - it needs to fit you. Under "containers" I have 2 for sale currently which look like what you are looking for... rm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jackpunx 0 #19 December 20, 2005 QuoteQuoteI don’t see myself becoming extremely aggressive close to the ground With all this talk about minimum size and standards, this is what scares me the most... You need to be able to do aggressive corrections close to the ground. Using a canopy that you feel fine under if you dont turn below 500 feet wont do you much good when someone cuts you off at 100 feet. I’m sorry it scares you.. but just because I drive a sports car doesn’t mean I need to race it around a track.. but it does mean that I can use its performance for either fun,,, or to get my self out of a jam.. I’m not saying I am not capable of flat turns and maneuvering.. with my little experience.. I have had to do that outside of just practice.. but what I am saying is I don’t think I need to be doing front riser hook turns yet.. Which this has nothing to do with my choices.. I was just avoiding a flame for downsizing with my jump numbers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jackpunx 0 #20 December 20, 2005 QuoteQuoteI have been looking for gear since I have figured out what size canopy I was going to commit to for a while.. Everything I have found has been more than 4k.. If Im going to pay 4500.. why not buy new? I found something for 45.. but I think it’s a little to much for something made in 02 My budget is 3kish.. If I found a great deal on somthing.. I could bring it up to 4.. but it has to be perfect for that.. Im 5 10 170 looking for fully articulated with 17" main lift web.. that’s at least what I have been jumping and for the most part it fits pretty good. I want to buy a pilot 168 to jump for a while.. but want the option to downsize to Pre 150.. So I think something that is made for a 150 will work Do you think I’m asking to much? thanks there is a ton of used stuff. buy each piece separate so you get exactly what you want. the container is the tough one - it needs to fit you. Under "containers" I have 2 for sale currently which look like what you are looking for... rm I started going down that route.. but thought I would be better served to go through a reputable pro to do this for me. Also I feel like Im getting a killer deal and also exactly what I want.. that dosnt mean Im not open minded.. send the link Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Silverchic 0 #21 December 20, 2005 If anyone is buying a new AAD I highly recommend a Vigil instead of a cypres...no servicing! http://www.vigil.aero/home.phpHow is it that we put man on the moon before we figured out it would be a good idea to put wheels on luggage? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #22 December 20, 2005 QuoteIf anyone is buying a new AAD I highly recommend a Vigil instead of a cypres...no servicing! It's a bit early to tell, still. No vigil is 4 year old yet. When we get 6-7 years in without them seeing a need to change policy, I'll believe it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Silverchic 0 #23 December 20, 2005 That's true - but I still don't regret buying one instead of a cypres...How is it that we put man on the moon before we figured out it would be a good idea to put wheels on luggage? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #24 December 20, 2005 Quote I was just avoiding a flame for downsizing with my jump numbers But that's the sort of reason most likely to ellicit flames! BTW, your profile says WL of .9 with a 210. Is a 170 really 1:1 for you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jackpunx 0 #25 December 20, 2005 QuoteQuote I was just avoiding a flame for downsizing with my jump numbers But that's the sort of reason most likely to ellicit flames! BTW, your profile says WL of .9 with a 210. Is a 170 really 1:1 for you? Sorry.. I updated it.. Im 168 lbs.. 190ish out the door I have seen lots of people get lashed with regards to downsizing.. I was not asking for advise as my instructors and store from who I rent gear (and jump with) have suggested that I drop before I buy.. So I’m comfortable with it. I guess I was trying to avoid the inevitable.. Instead I brought attention to it..LOL Oh well.. .. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. 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IanHarrop 37 #15 December 20, 2005 This isn't exactly what you're looking for but... for a starter rig that you may well change in 2 years. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/detail_page.cgi?ID=29654&d=1"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jackpunx 0 #16 December 20, 2005 QuoteThis isn't exactly what you're looking for but... for a starter rig that you may well change in 2 years. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/detail_page.cgi?ID=29654&d=1 Thanks for the link I’m downsizing to a 168 next week. Im thinking I'll stay there for a while (about 2-300 jumps and see if I want to downsize from there.. the 170 puts me at a 1:1 I have been averaging about 30 jumps a month.. and have been able to do everything on the downsizing checklist (on a 188) except landing up or down hill. So my comfort level with the 168 is pretty good. I don’t see myself becoming extremely aggressive close to the ground. Im going to take a canopy class and master that before deciding if I want to move lower. The container should support something in the 140 range.. so I think it’s a good all around fit that will last me a while. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #17 December 20, 2005 QuoteI don’t see myself becoming extremely aggressive close to the ground With all this talk about minimum size and standards, this is what scares me the most... You need to be able to do aggressive corrections close to the ground. Using a canopy that you feel fine under if you dont turn below 500 feet wont do you much good when someone cuts you off at 100 feet.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #18 December 20, 2005 QuoteI have been looking for gear since I have figured out what size canopy I was going to commit to for a while.. Everything I have found has been more than 4k.. If Im going to pay 4500.. why not buy new? I found something for 45.. but I think it’s a little to much for something made in 02 My budget is 3kish.. If I found a great deal on somthing.. I could bring it up to 4.. but it has to be perfect for that.. Im 5 10 170 looking for fully articulated with 17" main lift web.. that’s at least what I have been jumping and for the most part it fits pretty good. I want to buy a pilot 168 to jump for a while.. but want the option to downsize to Pre 150.. So I think something that is made for a 150 will work Do you think I’m asking to much? thanks there is a ton of used stuff. buy each piece separate so you get exactly what you want. the container is the tough one - it needs to fit you. Under "containers" I have 2 for sale currently which look like what you are looking for... rm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jackpunx 0 #19 December 20, 2005 QuoteQuoteI don’t see myself becoming extremely aggressive close to the ground With all this talk about minimum size and standards, this is what scares me the most... You need to be able to do aggressive corrections close to the ground. Using a canopy that you feel fine under if you dont turn below 500 feet wont do you much good when someone cuts you off at 100 feet. I’m sorry it scares you.. but just because I drive a sports car doesn’t mean I need to race it around a track.. but it does mean that I can use its performance for either fun,,, or to get my self out of a jam.. I’m not saying I am not capable of flat turns and maneuvering.. with my little experience.. I have had to do that outside of just practice.. but what I am saying is I don’t think I need to be doing front riser hook turns yet.. Which this has nothing to do with my choices.. I was just avoiding a flame for downsizing with my jump numbers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jackpunx 0 #20 December 20, 2005 QuoteQuoteI have been looking for gear since I have figured out what size canopy I was going to commit to for a while.. Everything I have found has been more than 4k.. If Im going to pay 4500.. why not buy new? I found something for 45.. but I think it’s a little to much for something made in 02 My budget is 3kish.. If I found a great deal on somthing.. I could bring it up to 4.. but it has to be perfect for that.. Im 5 10 170 looking for fully articulated with 17" main lift web.. that’s at least what I have been jumping and for the most part it fits pretty good. I want to buy a pilot 168 to jump for a while.. but want the option to downsize to Pre 150.. So I think something that is made for a 150 will work Do you think I’m asking to much? thanks there is a ton of used stuff. buy each piece separate so you get exactly what you want. the container is the tough one - it needs to fit you. Under "containers" I have 2 for sale currently which look like what you are looking for... rm I started going down that route.. but thought I would be better served to go through a reputable pro to do this for me. Also I feel like Im getting a killer deal and also exactly what I want.. that dosnt mean Im not open minded.. send the link Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Silverchic 0 #21 December 20, 2005 If anyone is buying a new AAD I highly recommend a Vigil instead of a cypres...no servicing! http://www.vigil.aero/home.phpHow is it that we put man on the moon before we figured out it would be a good idea to put wheels on luggage? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #22 December 20, 2005 QuoteIf anyone is buying a new AAD I highly recommend a Vigil instead of a cypres...no servicing! It's a bit early to tell, still. No vigil is 4 year old yet. When we get 6-7 years in without them seeing a need to change policy, I'll believe it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Silverchic 0 #23 December 20, 2005 That's true - but I still don't regret buying one instead of a cypres...How is it that we put man on the moon before we figured out it would be a good idea to put wheels on luggage? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #24 December 20, 2005 Quote I was just avoiding a flame for downsizing with my jump numbers But that's the sort of reason most likely to ellicit flames! BTW, your profile says WL of .9 with a 210. Is a 170 really 1:1 for you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jackpunx 0 #25 December 20, 2005 QuoteQuote I was just avoiding a flame for downsizing with my jump numbers But that's the sort of reason most likely to ellicit flames! BTW, your profile says WL of .9 with a 210. Is a 170 really 1:1 for you? Sorry.. I updated it.. Im 168 lbs.. 190ish out the door I have seen lots of people get lashed with regards to downsizing.. I was not asking for advise as my instructors and store from who I rent gear (and jump with) have suggested that I drop before I buy.. So I’m comfortable with it. I guess I was trying to avoid the inevitable.. Instead I brought attention to it..LOL Oh well.. .. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
