Reserve repack

[josebaumanndez 0]

When a jumper gets the reserve repack done, which normally costs around $50.00, does the rigger ALWAYS pull the reserve out of the free bag, inspect it, and then repack it? Thanks

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Everyday's a holiday, every meal's a banquet!

[councilman24 37]

Unless your being scammed by an unscrupulous rigger, yes. Along with inspecting a lot of other things, checking service bulletins, performing minor maintenance (like cleaning cutaway cables), and other things. Check out some of the checklists on rigging websites.

I have suspected that a pack job was mine even though another rigger supposedly inspected the rig since my previous pack job on a few occasions. Its hard to tell for sure. I let the customer know why I suspected it and left it at that.

It would be almost impossible to prove without a secret telltail. But I know how I pack and I know how the immediately local riggers pack. And I could tell without being able to prove it.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[masterrig 1]

I've been in a situation where a rig was brought to me as well as another rigger. I suspected the same thing. I laid one of my business cards in the reserve pack-tray, after I I&R'd it.


Chuck

[councilman24 37]

But, the last rigger could do full I&R and just leave the card. Still no proof.

Need something they don't know about. I still tack the toggles with safety tie ala original swift reserves and early talons. But I think I'm the only one around here who does it. So if it comes back still tacked at least I know they didn't release the breaks. I also use an odd color to mark the length of my cypres loops. So I'll know if its been changed. Lots of little things can add up to knowing.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[masterrig 1]

Quote

But, the last rigger could do full I&R and just leave the card. Still no proof.

Need something they don't know about. I still tack the toggles with safety tie ala original swift reserves and early talons. But I think I'm the only one around here who does it. So if it comes back still tacked at least I know they didn't release the breaks. I also use an odd color to mark the length of my cypres loops. So I'll know if its been changed. Lots of little things can add up to knowing.

__________________________________________

I see, what you're saying.
I still, tack the toggles with seal thread.
The idea of using different color to mark Cypres loops is good. I'll put that in my memory bank.


Chuck

[FrogNog 1]

Quote

When a jumper gets the reserve repack done, which normally costs around $50.00, does the rigger ALWAYS pull the reserve out of the free bag, inspect it, and then repack it? Thanks

If you pull the reserve handle and pull the freebag off, then give your rigger all the parts in a bag, you usually get an honest repack.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[darkwing 4]

There may be unscrupulous riggers out there, but I have certainly NEVER known of this to happen. I would treat it as an extremely serious infraction if I believed it happened. I would consider it criminally negligent. If you think it happened wouldn't that be enough to make you use another rigger? Trust is everything (well, not everything, but a lot).

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[councilman24 37]

This is what I have most of my newer customers do. BUT, I want to be there when it's opened. One I want to test the pull force. I want to see what it looks like. Is it loose, wrinkled, tight, PC crooked. I want to see how it deploys, preferably with the main in it. I want to see the canopy distribution versus the appearance. And I want to evaluate the previous rigger. Not to bad mouth anyone but to ensure we all continue to learn. Also, it's easy to loose parts (safety stow). You might damage the canopy or other component. You might get it oily or wet in your car. And your cat might pee on it!

I very much prefer, especially with new customers or newer jumpers that they pull it in front of me.

This is easier for me than others because I rig part time and know all my customers personally.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[councilman24 37]

I think Jose was asking as a newbie. But, I have known it to happen to about 95% certainty, but couldn't prove it. And the Feds wouldn't do anything if you did drop a dime because they wouldn't be able to prove it either.

The people that care end up knowing who the good riggers are. The people who just want a legal card don't care.

On a different subject I had one guy at my DZ who bragged he could sign my name better than I could and routinely forged my name on data cards for himself and his buddies. The ones I could prove became excustomers. I don't much care what people do with their gear as long as they don't implicate me!

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[justinb138 0]

Quote

On a different subject I had one guy at my DZ who bragged he could sign my name better than I could and routinely forged my name on data cards for himself and his buddies. The ones I could prove became excustomers. I don't much care what people do with their gear as long as they don't implicate me!

Did someone take him out back and beat the shit out of him like they should have?

[councilman24 37]

No he was bigger and crazier than most of us (me). But I started numbering all my pack jobs on the card and in my log. So now I can prove that no, this rig isn't 1079, this other rig is.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

No he was bigger and crazier than most of us (me). But I started numbering all my pack jobs on the card and in my log. So now I can prove that no, this rig isn't 1079, this other rig is.

Neat trick. I use a stamp for my cert # and seal code. That helps too.

Derek

[masterrig 1]

Quote

Quote

No he was bigger and crazier than most of us (me). But I started numbering all my pack jobs on the card and in my log. So now I can prove that no, this rig isn't 1079, this other rig is.

Neat trick. I use a stamp for my cert # and seal code. That helps too.

Derek

_________________________________________

Several years ago, I also went to a rubber stamp for my number and seal symbol. That was because of 3-incidents before a boogie. I told them when they finally brought their rigs to me, I wanted payment for the last re-packs!


Chuck

[koppel 4]

Quote

If you pull the reserve handle and pull the freebag off, then give your rigger all the parts in a bag

I'm with Terry on this one. It is extremely important for your rigger to be able to inspect the gear prior to repacking and watch the deployment. I am keeping a track on all rigs of how far the reserve pilot chute deploys. IF it came to me opened I would lose the opportunity to keep this study going.

As for so called "Pencil Packs" if you think that is the case there is a small trick you can do with a pencil to try and keep an eye on this.

If Pilotchute is visible (Racer, Teardrop etc) then make a small pencil mark at the 12 o'clock position.

If covered by two flaps (Jav,Wings etc) then a small mark where the top flap meets the Pilot Chute on both sides.

If enclosed (Vector etc) then a small mark on the meeting point of all flaps.

These little tell-tales work quite well in my experience.

Best advice..find a rigger youtrust and stick with them

I like my canopy...


...it lets me down.

[JerryBaumchen 1,304]

I had a number of local guys who would routinely sign my name to the data card when I had actually been the person who last packed it. I told them that if they were going to fake it, to keep me out of it; flip open the phone book, pick out a name and write it in.

At least that would keep me out of the loop.

Some time later we had a 'local rigger' who did a lot of 'repacks' and his name was Behn Haad. I never did meet him, though.

It wasn't my name and that is what was important to me.

[teason 0]

I like go through a full inspection atleast once in front of the owner and explain what I'm doing and why. That way if they use another rigger, they can evaluate them and decide if they want them packing thier gear.

Some have told me of riggers who "fluff and stuff" in about 20 min. with no inspection at all.

Repack is a misnomer! IMO the jumper is paying for an inspection. It's only repacked because you have to unpack it to look at it.

I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

Quote

When a jumper gets the reserve repack done, which normally costs around $50.00, does the rigger ALWAYS pull the reserve out of the free bag, inspect it, and then repack it? Thanks

This is my opinion: if you have to ask that question, find a new rigger. You can force the repack by pulling the reserve out of the freebag yourself, and an inspection by watching them, but if you feel the need to do either, I'd evaluate if you ought to be trusting your life to that person.

Questions like this are also one of the many reasons I am my own rigger.

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[councilman24 37]

I've wore out two stamps with my seal symbol. I also use red ink. A little more unusual. But I don't always use it. If I pack away from home sometimes I don't take it. I do always log and number the pack jobs.

With stamps though, I know one DZ owner/rigger who used to leave his seal and stamp with signature and number laying around the loft for anyone to use!

As above I've told people if they have to pencil pack make up a name. Don't forge mine. But I wasn't going to say that here. Didn't want to give anyone ideas.

I like to watch PC launch too. But Bill Booth once said that his spring was too strong and he didn't like the wide reserve bridle. That it launched to far but that was what the customer wanted. The turbulence coming around to the back of a stable skydiver would hit the wide bridle from the side and pull the PC back down. I think this was at the 1989 Rigger conference in Oklahoma. We immediately told Bill to fold in thirds and sew the first six feet of the bridle. Thus having a wide bridle for most of it but not the part exposed to the trubulent air rushing in sideways. Bill never did.

Hey Bill, remember that? Do you still believe it?

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[JerryBaumchen 1,304]

Terry,

This just to get some discussion going.

If it is accepted that the 2" wide bridle (virtually the standard for a reserve free bag) does not provide sufficient drag to launch the bag out of the container, i.e., in a horshoe situation, then why does the industry continue to use the 2" webbing.

I would think that 1" Type 4 (at a 1,000 lbs rating) would be more than sufficient.

Let the commentors begin.

[councilman24 37]

As I'm sure you now some bridles have assist pockets. Some have "catapult" extra pilot chutes. The myth that the bridel will lift the bag out is well entrenched among jumpers in general. And it probably can/could in some instances.

I don't know why it's still the standard. The first to change would have an uphill battle to convince skydivers that it's okay. The 2" bridle is also thinner than type IV, I think. So it may actually be less bulky when stacked in a reserve container.

I'll let the manufacturers answer.

Just to change the subject once again, I wonder why some continue to use coated fabric for the freebag. This only transfers coating to the canopy over time. I've had one canopy fail tensile testing in the area with the coating transfer. Don't know if there was any relationship between the coating and the failure. I also had one rig that took 35lbs to pull the free bag off the canopy AFTER the locking stows were out. The bag was stuck to the canopy stack. (Stored in the trunk of a construction worker all summer! DON'T DO THIS!) In speaking to one manufacturers representative they said the owner just didn't want the bother of changing.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[sundevil777 99]

Quote

I wonder why some continue to use coated fabric for the freebag. This only transfers coating to the canopy over time. I've had one canopy fail tensile testing in the area with the coating transfer. Don't know if there was any relationship between the coating and the failure. I also had one rig that took 35lbs to pull the free bag off the canopy AFTER the locking stows were out. The bag was stuck to the canopy stack. (Stored in the trunk of a construction worker all summer! DON'T DO THIS!)

My previous rig had the coating on the freebag, and it also 'stuck' to the canopy. It had been a closet queen for about 3 years, and never subjected to unusual heat. The coating on the inside of the container was also flaking badly. The container was about 20 years old, but the freebag was only about 10.

Are there any rigs that still use the coating on the freebag? With no apparent benefit, and the increased bulk and risk of sticking, this design should be discouraged within the industry in a strong way, I think.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[councilman24 37]

Last I knew Sunpath was. I know they weren't the only one. I don't get to play with new gear too often so I'm not sure who's doing what right now.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[sundevil777 99]

Thanks.

I know that the Infinity does not use the coating.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[masterrig 1]

The 2" bridle is also thinner than type IV, I think.

_____________________________________

Yes, sir. The 2" is thinner than Type - 4. Not by much, though.


Chuck

[riggerrob 613]

When I worked for Butler (pilot emergency parachutes), I sewed a few freebags with 1" Type 4 bridles.
While working for Rigging Innovations, I packed s tack of Aviator prototypes with 2' wide polyester bridles.
While working for Para-Phernalia, I sewed a few (PEP) freebags with 2" bridles.

Why the difference?

Even Bill Booth admits that 2' bridles do not create enough drag to lift a freebag out of a tight, modern container.
Assister pockets are not much better.
The gadget that might lift a freebag off your back is a catapult.