Gravitymaster 0 #151 January 2, 2003 QuoteMouth, Skymonkeyone and Katiebear flew Delta to Eloy with no problems (at least they arrived with their rigs, and they weren't foaming at the mouth because of TSA). So it is possible. In Houston Hobby and Phoenix, there was no issue with TSA. I'm told Houston Intercontinental is a little tougher, but I try to avoid that one anyway. I'd say most of the time it's OK, and it really really sucks when it isn't. There are skydivers who travel every day with their rigs and don't encounter a problem. We all know that. The question is if you want to support an airline whose POLICY is to deny you the ability to carry your rig on? Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,166 #152 January 2, 2003 From the email exchange, it looks like their policy is to back up their agent. The agent made a decision to forbid the rig. It was a bad decision, but Delta seems to feel that backing up their agent is more important than appeasing the customer. I wonder what will happen the next time that agent is asked about Cypres-equipped parachute gear? Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #153 January 2, 2003 QuoteFrom the email exchange, it looks like their policy is to back up their agent. The agent made a decision to forbid the rig. It was a bad decision, but Delta seems to feel that backing up their agent is more important than appeasing the customer. I wonder what will happen the next time that agent is asked about Cypres-equipped parachute gear? Wendy W. Or what will happen once this uninformed decision spreads through the Delta employee grapevine that Skydiving Rigs contain compressed gas. On a somewhat related subject, I thinking about printing some T-shirts expressing our dissatisfaction with Delta. Some of the suggestions have been: "Skydivers don't let friends fly Delta" "Delta Airlines-Skydiver Unfriendly" I would appreciate everyones input and will send a free T-shirt to whom ever submits the winning slogan. Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #154 January 2, 2003 New Letter from Delta 01/02/03 Dear Mr. Hanrahan: Thank you for your additional comments concerning your experience at the Washington Dulles Airport. We treat any report of customer dissatisfaction very seriously, and are sorry you were disappointed with the reply you received. Our records indicate that you attempted to go through the security check point with the backpack containing your parachute, and were advised by the TSA security officer that it was not an acceptable carry-on item. A Delta representative explained to you that we could not transport a cartridge that appeared to be CO2 or pressurized gas. Therefore, we declined to transport it. Mr. Hanrahan, the safety and security of our passengers must always be the overriding consideration in situations like this. Nonetheless, we regret your disappointment, and your feedback will be invaluable as we review this aspect of our service. We value you as a customer, and will always do our best to merit your confidence and support. Sincerely, Heather Futch Manager Customer Care Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #155 January 2, 2003 And my reply: Dear Ms. Futch, I was there so I know what happened. Apparently Delta Airlines is attempting to switch the responsibility from Delta to TSA. It was Delta's Supervisor, Katherine Wilson who made the decision not to allow me to board the airplane. I even offered to check the bag but was told by Ms. Wilson, not TSA, that I would NOT be allowed to board the plane. In addition to that, it is Deltas' responsibility to know whether or not an item is dangerous or not. I understand that in a busy airport, on a Saturday it is impossible to make this kind of investigation. I propose a meeting with Delta Airlines allow me to meet with Delta Security officials with my skydiving rig. I will be happy to disassemble the container and let Delta Security inspect the device. I will also challenge them at this meeting to point out to me the "compressed gas" container. I have also been in touch with several FAA certified Senior and Master Parachute Riggers who have volunteered to be present at the meeting to answer any questions Delta Security may have regarding this device. I will also bring with me to the meeting all the technical specifications for the Cypres for Deltas' review. After Delta has done a thorough inspection and investigation, I would expect a letter addressed to me from Delta regarding its' conclusions and would expect Delta to send a memo out to all its management. The ball is now in Deltas' court. I am perfectly willing to go the extra step to educate your security people to help you avoid a growing dissention within the skydiving community regarding Delta Airlines. Hopefully, Delta understands this isn't about one person with a problem but a larger problem within the 100,000 + members of our tight-knit community. Simply put, if Delta won't allow us to carry on or check our equipment, we will book on an airline that will. Every other airline allows these devices and I would think it would be in Deltas' best interest if it truly cares about treating its' passengers fairly to investigate this issue thoroughly. Best Regards. John Hanrahan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jessica 0 #156 January 2, 2003 Quote. A Delta representative explained to you that we could not transport a cartridge that appeared to be CO2 or pressurized gas. Grr. So they won't bother to educate their personnel about this somewhat common sport item, and reserve the right to turn us away from the gate at whim. USPA needs to make use of its Washington D.C. headquarters and its lobbyists and get on this. I don't think the problem is Delta -- if the TSA knew what they were doing and hadn't raised a stink, you wouldn't have had some no-nothing Delta employee getting involved. EDIT: Hey, very nice reply! Good job! I wonder if they'll bother to respond.Skydiving is for cool people only Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyingferret 0 #157 January 2, 2003 Nice reply. If anyone makes a form letter I would be glad to show support. I would even write, but very honestly I dont have the time. Not to make this debate broader, but this does not sursprise me at all. The lack of security is because of people getting paid $5.25 and being hired with the requirements as Burger King (this is an opinion, I dont actually know the requirements to work at an airport) People are assholes, and apathetic ones at that. I am a hobbyist photographer and I assure you we go through the same thing. The FAA has explicitedly decreed that you do not have to submit your film to Xrays, you can request a manual inspection. Before Sept 11. most things below 800 were fine, but since then they have turned the sensitivity way up, and most film companies recommend you do not pass it through xray. Yet every time, EVERY single time that I have gone through security this year I have been told "It is fine, it will not damage it." On my trip from Eloy I was even told that if I did not let them pass it through, they would have to open it and expose the film! I have now gotten in the habit of carrying print outs of all the regulartory documents concerning this. And yes I realize that is the problem here, we dont have a document here to print out. Honestly, I am a little troubled by the USPA's response earlier...."well it is not as simple as giving the part number" Okay....but could you give it to us anyway? Personally, the USPA is on my bad side anyway; I got more correspondence from the AOPA during the 911 hoopla than the USPA; their annoying "What have you done for me lately" ads, which they appear not realize the irony of; the fact that parachutist sucks, take a look at www.skydivemag.com from the UK, they do knowledge tutorials every month like Parashutist almost never does. If it were not for the right to jump at USPA group DZs, I could care less for the USPA right. Sorry....tangent there. But, the bottom line is that I dont see them resolving the problem for you. I think you deserve at the very least another set of tickets. If this issue is fixed it will be from the joint pressure of all of us, not the USPA, in my opinion -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #158 January 2, 2003 Quote I would even write, but very honestly I dont have the time. But a 500 word post isn't a problem? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyingferret 0 #159 January 2, 2003 Alright Clay, being your last day and all...you did get me there. Well I was busy working, and the post just sucked me. It wasn't gonna be that long. Plus I dont have to bother with things like grammar.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #160 January 2, 2003 Quote you did get me there Don't feel too bad....it's a big club you now belong to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #161 January 2, 2003 Notice also how she stipulates it wasn't an acceptable "carry-on" item, yet they refused to allow me to check it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RevJim 0 #162 January 7, 2003 QuoteIt should be of concern to all of us. If everyone who has read this thread so far will take the time to contact Delta and TSA it might have an impact. Bob As I stated earlier (alot earlier), I emailed Delta through their website as soon as I read your problem. I received a phone call early Friday morning from Delta, in return for my email. This was a male (I was still half asleep, don't remember his name), who stated my email complaint was forwarded to his office, and that he would like to investigate it further. He asked for the name of the person that was flying, and his flight number. Well, being in bed, I didn't have the info right in front of me. From reading the letters here, I'm still unsure of the name, ya sign the posts "Bob", and the letter "John"? I never did see a flight number either. This guy is supposed to call back in the morning, and I'd like to have some info for him. Who knows, maybe Delta will try and set a standard for other airlines to follow? Doubtful, but possible...It's your life, live it! Karma RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WFFC 1 #163 January 7, 2003 QuoteNotice also how she stipulates it wasn't an acceptable "carry-on" item, yet they refused to allow me to check it. Your incident happened after I bought my tix to fly with Delta on Jan 18th. I did email them, also prior to your incident, to ask the procedure now...Here's the last part of their email: "One parachute will be free in lieu of one piece of free luggage. Carry-on is permitted provided size permits stowage under seat or overhead." Let me know if you want me to forward the rest of the email to you. Bluez~~~ Michael----- ~~~Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sarge 0 #164 January 7, 2003 thanks man.... important safety tip!!!! i got a hard copy just in case for Daytona-- I'm done with the personally meaningful and philosophical sigs!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Deleted 0 #165 January 7, 2003 Well, the TSA guard obviously watched one to many James Bond movies, and had no clue. But I would have it in writing with whom ever you decide to fly with in advance, that they agree to let you fly with it. Not just take there word on it. But then I guess they allready had it in print. Hummm, whom can we blame....The DAMN Left Wing Libs! Honestly, that sucks! Sorry. SMoke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ladyskydiver 0 #166 January 7, 2003 Just got back from taking a trip on Delta - Milwaukee/Atlanta/Orlando (Jan. 2nd) and return (Jan. 6th). Had no problems with my rig. I did put it in a suitcase and check it, but didn't have any questions or anything asked - by TSA or Delta. After having read this post, I was expecting to be hassled. Maybe I lucked out.Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kevin922 0 #167 January 7, 2003 Quote I sent this to the tsa: Hello, I am a skydiver, and often carry on my sport parachute rig when I travel. I dislike checking it because of the potential for damage or loss; insurance to cover the entire value (around $3,000) is very expensive. The rig is equipped with an automatic opening device, which will deploy my reserve parachute if I am unconcious or incapacitated. The device does NOT contain compressed gas, and is maintained by an FAA-certified parachute rigger, verifiable by a data card carried in the rig. The brand name is Cypres, and it has been classified as non-dangerous by the Department of Transportation. The last time I flew, out of CMH, I was forced by TSA screeners to check my skydiving equipment. The reason given was that I might try to hijack the plane then escape. I found that logic patently ridiculous. There are tens of thousands of sport parachutists in this country who carry on their rigs all the time. I have, myself, a dozen times before this incident. Please give me some guidelines on how to facilitate carrying on my equipment. Any letters, documents, or other materials would be greatly appreciated. Sincerely, Me Too late now, but you may want to in the future make a note that it has to be TURNED ON in order to function at all Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kevin922 0 #168 January 7, 2003 BTW - Isn't it ultimately up to the pilot if you get on or not? After ms Katherine said no couldn't you demand (and have every right) to speak to the pilot? While I know that probably won't "fly" (especially with the way IAD is setup) it was just something that came to mind. Keep us posted. Kevin QuoteAnd my reply: Dear Ms. Futch, I was there so I know what happened. Apparently Delta Airlines is attempting to switch the responsibility from Delta to TSA. It was Delta's Supervisor, Katherine Wilson who made the decision not to allow me to board the airplane. I even offered to check the bag but was told by Ms. Wilson, not TSA, that I would NOT be allowed to board the plane. In addition to that, it is Deltas' responsibility to know whether or not an item is dangerous or not. I understand that in a busy airport, on a Saturday it is impossible to make this kind of investigation. I propose a meeting with Delta Airlines allow me to meet with Delta Security officials with my skydiving rig. I will be happy to disassemble the container and let Delta Security inspect the device. I will also challenge them at this meeting to point out to me the "compressed gas" container. I have also been in touch with several FAA certified Senior and Master Parachute Riggers who have volunteered to be present at the meeting to answer any questions Delta Security may have regarding this device. I will also bring with me to the meeting all the technical specifications for the Cypres for Deltas' review. After Delta has done a thorough inspection and investigation, I would expect a letter addressed to me from Delta regarding its' conclusions and would expect Delta to send a memo out to all its management. The ball is now in Deltas' court. I am perfectly willing to go the extra step to educate your security people to help you avoid a growing dissention within the skydiving community regarding Delta Airlines. Hopefully, Delta understands this isn't about one person with a problem but a larger problem within the 100,000 + members of our tight-knit community. Simply put, if Delta won't allow us to carry on or check our equipment, we will book on an airline that will. Every other airline allows these devices and I would think it would be in Deltas' best interest if it truly cares about treating its' passengers fairly to investigate this issue thoroughly. Best Regards. John Hanrahan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diverdriver 5 #169 January 7, 2003 You are unlikely to ever get to the pilot. If they think you are intending ill will they won't ever let you get in proximity. It probably would be best to not demand to see the captain. It will only make things worse for yourself. I usually try to walk through the terminal before the flight looking for any jumpseaters having problems getting on. Not all CAs do this though. Chris Schindler Airline Captain United Express Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RevJim 0 #170 January 7, 2003 Finally, Got the call from Delta. Name and flight number are back in the system again, and I mentioned the (to me) impersonal letters from Heather Futch. This guy sounded pissed at her, but that could be just another Delta "front". He stated he's going to dig deeper into this, and contact Bob directly. Keep us informed Bob. My flight plans in the future hinge on what they do. If it isn't resolved fairly, my flight to Atlanta back in Oct (where they REQUIRED me to check my rig), will be my last fight on Delta, ever.It's your life, live it! Karma RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #171 January 7, 2003 Thank-you for your vigilance in this matter, Jim. I hope, as a community, we can keep up the pressure on Delta by continuing to bring this and other incidents up before we book tickets. We need to let them know that this type of ignorance towards our gear is not acceptable. We need to make the point over and over by the only language they understand--MONEY Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gravitymaster 0 #172 January 7, 2003 Here is Delta's latestsolution to ensuring Skydivers they will be allowed to carry Cypres equiped rigs on their planes: Dear Mr. Hanrahan: This will acknowledge your message regarding your experience at the Washington Dulles International Airport and our recent exchanges of correspondence. Our highest priority is always the safety and security of our passengers. Therefore, as mentioned previously, we reserve the right to refuse to transport any questionable item. Nonetheless, we regret your continued disappointment. Mr. Hanrahan, while we appreciate your concern, we respectfully decline your request for a meeting with Delta officials. However, please be assured that your comments have been forwarded to the appropriate department heads for review. Your feedback will be helpful in our review of this aspect of our service and in identifying any necessary changes. Your selection of Delta is appreciated, and we will always do our best to merit your confidence and support. Sincerely, Heather Futch Manager Customer Care ---------------------------------------------------------------- Translation: We aren't willing to do anything which might alleviate yours and all other skydivers concerns about flying with your rig. We don't want to meet with you even though it might be helpful to us to understand why the Cypres is perfectly safe. We would rather leave it up to our ignorant security people. But please know we still want your money because we "CARE" so much. I am in the process of writing my reply. Will post it when I'm done. Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mountainman 0 #173 January 7, 2003 Quote I am done with Delta for good. Bob Me too. On one trip, they lost my baggage on the way there and on the way back. That is 2 for 2. Never flew with them again. http://www.brandonandlaura.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RevJim 0 #174 January 7, 2003 Doesn't sound very promising. I forgot to mention the details of this one. You'll love it. Oct 2002, Milwaukee to Atlanta on Delta. I was forced to check my rig, so i stuffed it inside my bag. The kicker? I don't have an AAD. No CYPRES, no Astra, nada. Still couldn't carry it on. Return flight, Atlanta to Milwaukee, Midwest Express. Rig went through Xray, and the checker said "Going skydiving?". I said, nope, that's what I was down here for. Now I'm going home." "Have a nice flight, sir!" Walked right on, no problems, and I don't use a gear bag either. Rig was in plain sight.It's your life, live it! Karma RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Stacy 0 #175 January 7, 2003 i've flown delta countless times (mostly between palm beach/fort lauderdale/orlando/tampa and BWI/Atlanta/Philly?Cleveland) never had a problem, i carry my rig on every time in a gear bag, but frequently they ask questions as it goes through XRay. never been stopped, except once when i overpacked my gear bag and it was a bit too big for the carry on bin. they just laughed and stored it up in a stewardess closet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next Page 7 of 8 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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wmw999 2,166 #152 January 2, 2003 From the email exchange, it looks like their policy is to back up their agent. The agent made a decision to forbid the rig. It was a bad decision, but Delta seems to feel that backing up their agent is more important than appeasing the customer. I wonder what will happen the next time that agent is asked about Cypres-equipped parachute gear? Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #153 January 2, 2003 QuoteFrom the email exchange, it looks like their policy is to back up their agent. The agent made a decision to forbid the rig. It was a bad decision, but Delta seems to feel that backing up their agent is more important than appeasing the customer. I wonder what will happen the next time that agent is asked about Cypres-equipped parachute gear? Wendy W. Or what will happen once this uninformed decision spreads through the Delta employee grapevine that Skydiving Rigs contain compressed gas. On a somewhat related subject, I thinking about printing some T-shirts expressing our dissatisfaction with Delta. Some of the suggestions have been: "Skydivers don't let friends fly Delta" "Delta Airlines-Skydiver Unfriendly" I would appreciate everyones input and will send a free T-shirt to whom ever submits the winning slogan. Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #154 January 2, 2003 New Letter from Delta 01/02/03 Dear Mr. Hanrahan: Thank you for your additional comments concerning your experience at the Washington Dulles Airport. We treat any report of customer dissatisfaction very seriously, and are sorry you were disappointed with the reply you received. Our records indicate that you attempted to go through the security check point with the backpack containing your parachute, and were advised by the TSA security officer that it was not an acceptable carry-on item. A Delta representative explained to you that we could not transport a cartridge that appeared to be CO2 or pressurized gas. Therefore, we declined to transport it. Mr. Hanrahan, the safety and security of our passengers must always be the overriding consideration in situations like this. Nonetheless, we regret your disappointment, and your feedback will be invaluable as we review this aspect of our service. We value you as a customer, and will always do our best to merit your confidence and support. Sincerely, Heather Futch Manager Customer Care Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #155 January 2, 2003 And my reply: Dear Ms. Futch, I was there so I know what happened. Apparently Delta Airlines is attempting to switch the responsibility from Delta to TSA. It was Delta's Supervisor, Katherine Wilson who made the decision not to allow me to board the airplane. I even offered to check the bag but was told by Ms. Wilson, not TSA, that I would NOT be allowed to board the plane. In addition to that, it is Deltas' responsibility to know whether or not an item is dangerous or not. I understand that in a busy airport, on a Saturday it is impossible to make this kind of investigation. I propose a meeting with Delta Airlines allow me to meet with Delta Security officials with my skydiving rig. I will be happy to disassemble the container and let Delta Security inspect the device. I will also challenge them at this meeting to point out to me the "compressed gas" container. I have also been in touch with several FAA certified Senior and Master Parachute Riggers who have volunteered to be present at the meeting to answer any questions Delta Security may have regarding this device. I will also bring with me to the meeting all the technical specifications for the Cypres for Deltas' review. After Delta has done a thorough inspection and investigation, I would expect a letter addressed to me from Delta regarding its' conclusions and would expect Delta to send a memo out to all its management. The ball is now in Deltas' court. I am perfectly willing to go the extra step to educate your security people to help you avoid a growing dissention within the skydiving community regarding Delta Airlines. Hopefully, Delta understands this isn't about one person with a problem but a larger problem within the 100,000 + members of our tight-knit community. Simply put, if Delta won't allow us to carry on or check our equipment, we will book on an airline that will. Every other airline allows these devices and I would think it would be in Deltas' best interest if it truly cares about treating its' passengers fairly to investigate this issue thoroughly. Best Regards. John Hanrahan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessica 0 #156 January 2, 2003 Quote. A Delta representative explained to you that we could not transport a cartridge that appeared to be CO2 or pressurized gas. Grr. So they won't bother to educate their personnel about this somewhat common sport item, and reserve the right to turn us away from the gate at whim. USPA needs to make use of its Washington D.C. headquarters and its lobbyists and get on this. I don't think the problem is Delta -- if the TSA knew what they were doing and hadn't raised a stink, you wouldn't have had some no-nothing Delta employee getting involved. EDIT: Hey, very nice reply! Good job! I wonder if they'll bother to respond.Skydiving is for cool people only Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #157 January 2, 2003 Nice reply. If anyone makes a form letter I would be glad to show support. I would even write, but very honestly I dont have the time. Not to make this debate broader, but this does not sursprise me at all. The lack of security is because of people getting paid $5.25 and being hired with the requirements as Burger King (this is an opinion, I dont actually know the requirements to work at an airport) People are assholes, and apathetic ones at that. I am a hobbyist photographer and I assure you we go through the same thing. The FAA has explicitedly decreed that you do not have to submit your film to Xrays, you can request a manual inspection. Before Sept 11. most things below 800 were fine, but since then they have turned the sensitivity way up, and most film companies recommend you do not pass it through xray. Yet every time, EVERY single time that I have gone through security this year I have been told "It is fine, it will not damage it." On my trip from Eloy I was even told that if I did not let them pass it through, they would have to open it and expose the film! I have now gotten in the habit of carrying print outs of all the regulartory documents concerning this. And yes I realize that is the problem here, we dont have a document here to print out. Honestly, I am a little troubled by the USPA's response earlier...."well it is not as simple as giving the part number" Okay....but could you give it to us anyway? Personally, the USPA is on my bad side anyway; I got more correspondence from the AOPA during the 911 hoopla than the USPA; their annoying "What have you done for me lately" ads, which they appear not realize the irony of; the fact that parachutist sucks, take a look at www.skydivemag.com from the UK, they do knowledge tutorials every month like Parashutist almost never does. If it were not for the right to jump at USPA group DZs, I could care less for the USPA right. Sorry....tangent there. But, the bottom line is that I dont see them resolving the problem for you. I think you deserve at the very least another set of tickets. If this issue is fixed it will be from the joint pressure of all of us, not the USPA, in my opinion -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #158 January 2, 2003 Quote I would even write, but very honestly I dont have the time. But a 500 word post isn't a problem? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #159 January 2, 2003 Alright Clay, being your last day and all...you did get me there. Well I was busy working, and the post just sucked me. It wasn't gonna be that long. Plus I dont have to bother with things like grammar.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #160 January 2, 2003 Quote you did get me there Don't feel too bad....it's a big club you now belong to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #161 January 2, 2003 Notice also how she stipulates it wasn't an acceptable "carry-on" item, yet they refused to allow me to check it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RevJim 0 #162 January 7, 2003 QuoteIt should be of concern to all of us. If everyone who has read this thread so far will take the time to contact Delta and TSA it might have an impact. Bob As I stated earlier (alot earlier), I emailed Delta through their website as soon as I read your problem. I received a phone call early Friday morning from Delta, in return for my email. This was a male (I was still half asleep, don't remember his name), who stated my email complaint was forwarded to his office, and that he would like to investigate it further. He asked for the name of the person that was flying, and his flight number. Well, being in bed, I didn't have the info right in front of me. From reading the letters here, I'm still unsure of the name, ya sign the posts "Bob", and the letter "John"? I never did see a flight number either. This guy is supposed to call back in the morning, and I'd like to have some info for him. Who knows, maybe Delta will try and set a standard for other airlines to follow? Doubtful, but possible...It's your life, live it! Karma RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WFFC 1 #163 January 7, 2003 QuoteNotice also how she stipulates it wasn't an acceptable "carry-on" item, yet they refused to allow me to check it. Your incident happened after I bought my tix to fly with Delta on Jan 18th. I did email them, also prior to your incident, to ask the procedure now...Here's the last part of their email: "One parachute will be free in lieu of one piece of free luggage. Carry-on is permitted provided size permits stowage under seat or overhead." Let me know if you want me to forward the rest of the email to you. Bluez~~~ Michael----- ~~~Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sarge 0 #164 January 7, 2003 thanks man.... important safety tip!!!! i got a hard copy just in case for Daytona-- I'm done with the personally meaningful and philosophical sigs!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deleted 0 #165 January 7, 2003 Well, the TSA guard obviously watched one to many James Bond movies, and had no clue. But I would have it in writing with whom ever you decide to fly with in advance, that they agree to let you fly with it. Not just take there word on it. But then I guess they allready had it in print. Hummm, whom can we blame....The DAMN Left Wing Libs! Honestly, that sucks! Sorry. SMoke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladyskydiver 0 #166 January 7, 2003 Just got back from taking a trip on Delta - Milwaukee/Atlanta/Orlando (Jan. 2nd) and return (Jan. 6th). Had no problems with my rig. I did put it in a suitcase and check it, but didn't have any questions or anything asked - by TSA or Delta. After having read this post, I was expecting to be hassled. Maybe I lucked out.Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #167 January 7, 2003 Quote I sent this to the tsa: Hello, I am a skydiver, and often carry on my sport parachute rig when I travel. I dislike checking it because of the potential for damage or loss; insurance to cover the entire value (around $3,000) is very expensive. The rig is equipped with an automatic opening device, which will deploy my reserve parachute if I am unconcious or incapacitated. The device does NOT contain compressed gas, and is maintained by an FAA-certified parachute rigger, verifiable by a data card carried in the rig. The brand name is Cypres, and it has been classified as non-dangerous by the Department of Transportation. The last time I flew, out of CMH, I was forced by TSA screeners to check my skydiving equipment. The reason given was that I might try to hijack the plane then escape. I found that logic patently ridiculous. There are tens of thousands of sport parachutists in this country who carry on their rigs all the time. I have, myself, a dozen times before this incident. Please give me some guidelines on how to facilitate carrying on my equipment. Any letters, documents, or other materials would be greatly appreciated. Sincerely, Me Too late now, but you may want to in the future make a note that it has to be TURNED ON in order to function at all Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #168 January 7, 2003 BTW - Isn't it ultimately up to the pilot if you get on or not? After ms Katherine said no couldn't you demand (and have every right) to speak to the pilot? While I know that probably won't "fly" (especially with the way IAD is setup) it was just something that came to mind. Keep us posted. Kevin QuoteAnd my reply: Dear Ms. Futch, I was there so I know what happened. Apparently Delta Airlines is attempting to switch the responsibility from Delta to TSA. It was Delta's Supervisor, Katherine Wilson who made the decision not to allow me to board the airplane. I even offered to check the bag but was told by Ms. Wilson, not TSA, that I would NOT be allowed to board the plane. In addition to that, it is Deltas' responsibility to know whether or not an item is dangerous or not. I understand that in a busy airport, on a Saturday it is impossible to make this kind of investigation. I propose a meeting with Delta Airlines allow me to meet with Delta Security officials with my skydiving rig. I will be happy to disassemble the container and let Delta Security inspect the device. I will also challenge them at this meeting to point out to me the "compressed gas" container. I have also been in touch with several FAA certified Senior and Master Parachute Riggers who have volunteered to be present at the meeting to answer any questions Delta Security may have regarding this device. I will also bring with me to the meeting all the technical specifications for the Cypres for Deltas' review. After Delta has done a thorough inspection and investigation, I would expect a letter addressed to me from Delta regarding its' conclusions and would expect Delta to send a memo out to all its management. The ball is now in Deltas' court. I am perfectly willing to go the extra step to educate your security people to help you avoid a growing dissention within the skydiving community regarding Delta Airlines. Hopefully, Delta understands this isn't about one person with a problem but a larger problem within the 100,000 + members of our tight-knit community. Simply put, if Delta won't allow us to carry on or check our equipment, we will book on an airline that will. Every other airline allows these devices and I would think it would be in Deltas' best interest if it truly cares about treating its' passengers fairly to investigate this issue thoroughly. Best Regards. John Hanrahan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #169 January 7, 2003 You are unlikely to ever get to the pilot. If they think you are intending ill will they won't ever let you get in proximity. It probably would be best to not demand to see the captain. It will only make things worse for yourself. I usually try to walk through the terminal before the flight looking for any jumpseaters having problems getting on. Not all CAs do this though. Chris Schindler Airline Captain United Express Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RevJim 0 #170 January 7, 2003 Finally, Got the call from Delta. Name and flight number are back in the system again, and I mentioned the (to me) impersonal letters from Heather Futch. This guy sounded pissed at her, but that could be just another Delta "front". He stated he's going to dig deeper into this, and contact Bob directly. Keep us informed Bob. My flight plans in the future hinge on what they do. If it isn't resolved fairly, my flight to Atlanta back in Oct (where they REQUIRED me to check my rig), will be my last fight on Delta, ever.It's your life, live it! Karma RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #171 January 7, 2003 Thank-you for your vigilance in this matter, Jim. I hope, as a community, we can keep up the pressure on Delta by continuing to bring this and other incidents up before we book tickets. We need to let them know that this type of ignorance towards our gear is not acceptable. We need to make the point over and over by the only language they understand--MONEY Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #172 January 7, 2003 Here is Delta's latestsolution to ensuring Skydivers they will be allowed to carry Cypres equiped rigs on their planes: Dear Mr. Hanrahan: This will acknowledge your message regarding your experience at the Washington Dulles International Airport and our recent exchanges of correspondence. Our highest priority is always the safety and security of our passengers. Therefore, as mentioned previously, we reserve the right to refuse to transport any questionable item. Nonetheless, we regret your continued disappointment. Mr. Hanrahan, while we appreciate your concern, we respectfully decline your request for a meeting with Delta officials. However, please be assured that your comments have been forwarded to the appropriate department heads for review. Your feedback will be helpful in our review of this aspect of our service and in identifying any necessary changes. Your selection of Delta is appreciated, and we will always do our best to merit your confidence and support. Sincerely, Heather Futch Manager Customer Care ---------------------------------------------------------------- Translation: We aren't willing to do anything which might alleviate yours and all other skydivers concerns about flying with your rig. We don't want to meet with you even though it might be helpful to us to understand why the Cypres is perfectly safe. We would rather leave it up to our ignorant security people. But please know we still want your money because we "CARE" so much. I am in the process of writing my reply. Will post it when I'm done. Bob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mountainman 0 #173 January 7, 2003 Quote I am done with Delta for good. Bob Me too. On one trip, they lost my baggage on the way there and on the way back. That is 2 for 2. Never flew with them again. http://www.brandonandlaura.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RevJim 0 #174 January 7, 2003 Doesn't sound very promising. I forgot to mention the details of this one. You'll love it. Oct 2002, Milwaukee to Atlanta on Delta. I was forced to check my rig, so i stuffed it inside my bag. The kicker? I don't have an AAD. No CYPRES, no Astra, nada. Still couldn't carry it on. Return flight, Atlanta to Milwaukee, Midwest Express. Rig went through Xray, and the checker said "Going skydiving?". I said, nope, that's what I was down here for. Now I'm going home." "Have a nice flight, sir!" Walked right on, no problems, and I don't use a gear bag either. Rig was in plain sight.It's your life, live it! Karma RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stacy 0 #175 January 7, 2003 i've flown delta countless times (mostly between palm beach/fort lauderdale/orlando/tampa and BWI/Atlanta/Philly?Cleveland) never had a problem, i carry my rig on every time in a gear bag, but frequently they ask questions as it goes through XRay. never been stopped, except once when i overpacked my gear bag and it was a bit too big for the carry on bin. they just laughed and stored it up in a stewardess closet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
