skyhook question

[schon267 0]

a question about the skyhook, I watched the video about it's history and use, and obviously I am a newbie to the sport, but it seems to me that this innovation is just awsome! but I understand if your doing crew work you might need a delay in the reserve opening. with that in mind, why is it every skydiver with lots of jumps and experience I talk to don't seem very impressed with it??
also, the guy who packs the reserves at my dz said it's just another type of rsl, and if it's not packed just right, it won't deploy at all.

please help with this, when I buy gear, I really see a great benefit for me with the skyhook as far as safety for my jumps, but the D license jumpers don't share my enthusiasm?

[freefalle 0]

Well, Im certainly no expert. However I can give you my opinion from the experience I have had. First off Yes, I do tend to agree, If I was doing CReW, I would probably want to forgo the use of any RSL, do to the possibilty that my cut away may have been induced by a wrap. With regard to the skyhook, I have had one cut away on a rig with a skyhook and one cutaway on a rig without one. I can tell you this. The skyhook system is FAST, I am pretty sure it beat me to my reserve handle. Its a good dependable system, it is however, not a replacement for proper emergency procedures. If you have any questions about the skyhook system, I encourage you to contact Marc Procos at relative workshop. He can and will answer any questions that you may have. Also, try doing a search on here for the skyhook, there have been several threads about it in the past, several of which Bill Booth ( the creator of the skyhook) has provided some input. I am a strong advocate of the skyhook system.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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why is it every skydiver with lots of jumps and experience I talk to don't seem very impressed with it??

How much experience with the Skyhook do they have? Did they say why they were not impressed with it? Always ask "why?" when you get an opinion. You'll be surprised with the amount of poor answers to that question you'll get.

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also, the guy who packs the reserves at my dz said it's just another type of rsl, and if it's not packed just right, it won't deploy at all.

Find a different rigger.

Derek

[murrays 0]

if I was buying a new set of gear today I would buy a Vector with a Skyhook. If you want to disconnect it when doing crw you can do so...the same as any RSL.

I will bet that in a few years, after Bill Booth licenses it to other gear manufacturers, it will be almost as commonplace as a Cypres. It is going to save a lot of lives.

--
Murray

"No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey

[schon267 0]

thank you all for your imput, I just am amazed at bill booth and his knowledge and dedication to making our sport as safe as possible. I know I want to #1, be a safe skydiver, #2 have every chance of being and old and safe skydiver. the skyhook just amazes me to no end, and I plan on using one when I do buy a rig.
I also know my ep's, and know there is no substitute for using them properly.

thanks again for your imput!!!!!
steve

p.s thank you bill booth!!!!!

[pilotdave 0]

Every one of these Skyhook threads must sell at least a couple more vectors. Can't pay for advertising like this word of mouth stuff. I think schon267 is Bill Booth in disguise just tying to get more business!

Dave

[billbooth 10]

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Every one of these Skyhook threads must sell at least a couple more vectors. Can't pay for advertising like this word of mouth stuff. I think schon267 is Bill Booth in disguise just tying to get more business!

Dave

Actually, he's not even related. I just slipped him $20 for the plug.

[schon267 0]

nope, not related at all, but thanks for that 20 bill! hahaha
a question for you bill, I don't want to name names or anything, but the rigger at my dz showed me the technical data he had about packing the skyhook. then he showed me a page about having something showing green and not red or something regarding when you pack it, then he said if that isn't packed right your reserve won't work at all.
forgive my inability to give you the exact info about what he said, I'm new and still learning. I swear though, alot of d license jumpers I talk to (instructors included) just say oh, it's just another rsl. It doesn't seem like just another rsl to me?
anyway, thanks for everything you do for the sport!!! regards, steve knoll

[MB38 0]

If a reserve isn't packed right, it won't work at all. If a main isn't packed right, it won't work at all. If your car isn't put together right, it won't work at all. If a Skyhook isn't packed right, it won't work at all.

I dunno. The Skyhook seems pretty groovy to me, but I don't know jack.

I really don't know what I'm talking about.

[AggieDave 6]

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If a Skyhook isn't packed right, it won't work at all.

Right, but then again, the rigger needs only consult the nifty picture diagram on one of the closing flaps of the reserve to review the diagram, nevermind that the rigger should have the manual handy when packing anything just incase a question arises.

You're right though, just about everything in skydiving, in regards to gear, could kill you if not done correctly. Basically that excuse from people is just proving their fear of the future. If you don't like it, good for you, if you do like it, good for you, but atleast give good reasons either way.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[MB38 0]

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just about everything in skydiving, in regards to gear, could kill you if not done correctly.

Exactly. Just wanted to make sure that this is what people got from my post.

The Skyhook is no different than any other lifesaving device that we use. If it isn't packed properly, it will fail and you may die. Is the Skyhook more likely to be packed incorrectly? Perhaps out of the fact that not as many people have packed one before... but it's like anything else. If you know how to do it, it's easy. If you don't, it's too complicated.

I really don't know what I'm talking about.

[Superfletch 1]

The "Skyhook" is probably the best skydiving innovation in the last 10 years in my opinion. It's funny because it's so simple.

Your rigger sounds like an idiot to me. Sure you can malfunction a skyhook by not installing it correctly. Same goes for every other piece of skydiving equipment. Plus, if you're installing it incorrectly, you're an idiot. Like I said before... it's very simple.

Thanks Bill for making skydiving even SAFER! 6 Months ago I was in the market for a new rig. It came down to three. After reviewing the data and trials for the "skyhook" I went with Vector. I'll be buying a new one this month due to the Instructors program through Vector. From now on all my new rigs will incorporate a skyhook. It's a no brainer for me. Why not have a reserve inflated above my head in 1sec? The "skyhook" IS going to save tons more lives than it takes... mark my words. It comes down to numbers and as I see them, the numbers are in favor of the "skyhook".

Gary "Superfletch" Fletcher
D-26145; USPA Coach, IAD/I, AFF/I
Videographer/Photographer

[nate_1979 9]

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Every one of these Skyhook threads must sell at least a couple more vectors. Can't pay for advertising like this word of mouth stuff. I think schon267 is Bill Booth in disguise just tying to get more business!

Dave

Actually, he's not even related. I just slipped him $20 for the plug.

Well, it's working... Everytime I see these damn threads I think about buying a new container just because I want skyhook .... You wouldnt happen to offer military discounts now would you Bill?

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[bliston 0]

I agree with everyone that the skyhook is awsome - the statements above and testimonials on the RWS website speak for themselves.

Don't get fooled by the current attitudes of many high time jumpers with "the smallest and coolest" rigs out there. Most of the guys on my four-way team wore skyhook equiped rigs this year and we'll probablly switch the rest of the rigs over this winter. Old stigmas die hard, but the Skyhook is changing the way jumpers of all experience levels view RSLs and I think even the "I'm too cool for RSLs" guys will be on board in due time. Time will tell...

Ben Liston
Mass Defiance 4-way FS

Mass Defiance 4-wayFS website


sticks!

[apoil 0]

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I will bet that in a few years, after Bill Booth licenses it to other gear manufacturers, it will be almost as commonplace as a Cypres. It is going to save a lot of lives.

I wont presume to speak for Mr. Booth since he is an active participant in these forums, but I am not aware of any intentions on his part to license the technology.

Other gear manufacturers do not currently employ a collins lanyard, which is truly an essential piece of a functional RSL.

One potential area of concern regarding the skyhook which is not often addressed. It has to be properly assembled in order for it to work. While this might seem insultingly obvious, the more complex and unique the repack requirements, the greater the likelihood that someone will one day get it wrong.

That said - A vector with a skyhook would be well in the running for consideration if I were going to get a new rig.

[Kris 0]

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I wont presume to speak for Mr. Booth since he is an active participant in these forums, but I am not aware of any intentions on his part to license the technology.

He states his intentions to license the technology in this thread --> http://dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1788204

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[apoil 0]

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I wont presume to speak for Mr. Booth since he is an active participant in these forums, but I am not aware of any intentions on his part to license the technology.

He states his intentions to license the technology in this thread --> http://dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1788204

Thanks... I missed that thread. That is good news - particularly since he flat out states "no collins lanyard - no skyhook"

Even absent the skyhook - I much prefer the design of the Vector RSL where the reserve closing pin is directly attached to the RSL lanyard, and the reserve ripcoord is a metal eyelet that the closing pin passes through. This prevents the rsl kinking the reserve ripcord cable on just about every reserve deployment. There's probably a few other subtle engineering benefits to design.

[Kris 0]

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Thanks... I missed that thread. That is good news - particularly since he flat out states "no collins lanyard - no skyhook"

Even absent the skyhook - I much prefer the design of the Vector RSL where the reserve closing pin is directly attached to the RSL lanyard, and the reserve ripcoord is a metal eyelet that the closing pin passes through. This prevents the rsl kinking the reserve ripcord cable on just about every reserve deployment. There's probably a few other subtle engineering benefits to design.

Well, the Collins lanyard definitely makes it a much safer implementation, especially in the case of only the RSL-side riser releasing.

I've looked at a Micron with the RSL and the way it's setup with the pin is a very slick piece of engineering indeed.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[mdrejhon 8]

Yeah, I wanted to buy a rig with SkyHook because I heard RWS with SkyHook were among the best. I'm still tempted... Perhaps in my next rig.

I pounced at a used Vector2 sold locally at the dropzone to save money. Whatever I am doing right now doesn't warrant a SkyHook as much as others (regular pull altitude of 3000 feet and a relatively docile Sabre parachute that is easy to kick spinning linetwists out of well before harddeck.) ...

I know, do my EP's correctly, clearly, and briskly, and I'll typically be fine. (Haven't yet needed to try...knock on wood...don't believe in jinxes).

But, yes, I'd still love a SkyHook anyway in the next rig. There will be times in future I need to pull at 2500 (i.e. bigways in the breakoff wave with the lowest pull altitudes) under a maybe smaller parachute that leaves me a lot less time for EP....

[Freeflysmiley 2]

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If a Skyhook isn't packed right, it won't work at all.

Right, but then again, the rigger needs only consult the nifty picture diagram on one of the closing flaps of the reserve to review the diagram, nevermind that the rigger should have the manual handy when packing anything just incase a question arises.

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If it's not done correctly yes the skyhook won't work, but the reserve CAN STILL be deployed manually!

P.S If your reserve canopys not connected it won't work either

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Practise the 6 P's!
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[apoil 0]

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P.S If your reserve canopys not connected it won't work either

no argument there, but my point is the more complex you make the system, the greater the likelihood that something might go wrong.

Perhaps that's just superstition.

[CReWLL 0]

Testimonials on any web site will sell you. Why would they put up unflattering statements? It is a ten fold increase in complexity over pulling a ripcord. It may be 15 times better, or 5 times better. Do your own math, and make your decision. Have you ever cut away at 150 ft?

[Freeflysmiley 2]

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P.S If your reserve canopys not connected it won't work either

no argument there, but my point is the more complex you make the system, the greater the likelihood that something might go wrong.
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Actually I completely agree with you, but the beauty of the skyhook is that it is actually pretty simple. I believe Bill and a colleague had a system designed to do the same thing 15 years ago but it was too complex to be used.

And the point was if it was installed the wrong way round , it does not prevent a manual reserve pull.

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Practise the 6 P's!
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[pilotdave 0]

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And the point was if it was installed the wrong way round , it does not prevent a manual reserve pull.

I don't think so... see http://www.relativeworkshop.com/pdf_files/09238.pdf.

"However, if the Skyhook hardware were sewn on the
bridle backwards during manufacture or subsequent repair, (with the pointed end of the hook facing the pilot
chute, instead of the bag) then you would tow your reserve pilot chute if deployed in response to a main total
malfunction. As the instructions state, this pilot chute in tow can be fixed by pulling the yellow RSL tab. Remember, this situation can only be caused by an installation error at the factory, or during a rigger repair of a damaged bridle. It cannot be caused by a packing error."

Not something your rigger is going to do by accident during a normal repack. Anyone really worried that this thing is too complicated for your rigger to handle, just look a the drawings and pictures at http://www.relativeworkshop.com/pdt_skyhook.html. It really is a simple little addition to a reserve repack.

Dave

[billvon 2,435]

>It really is a simple little addition to a reserve repack.

Agreed. But riggers have in the past screwed up even simpler items. It's a fact of life - people make mistakes. You can't make anything foolproof; a rigger will always be able to leave a molar strap in a packjob even on the simplest rig. A more complex packing sequence will increase the odds of making a mistake. Is that increase in risk worth it for the increase in safety afforded by the system? Up to you and your rigger to decide that. In most cases it probably is.