Pilot 188 problem

[steelyeye 0]

My new Pilot 188 (10 jumps loaded at 1.2) is acting a bit squirrely.

My first hint was my first deployment - the other jumpers watching my hop-and-pop from the plane said it looked ugly and described what I experienced.

After I pull, it snivels nicely, then the center 7 cells open gently, then the canopy surges forward about 10 feet (a chord length), then the end cells slowly pop open. Overall, it is really a gentle opening, but I a bit concerned that it is potentially dangerous in a big-way. It is generally on-heading, but the surge has me really concerned.

After it gets done with this show, it flys like a dream!

I have been standard pro-packing it without rolling the nose. I have tried rolling the nose, I have had a very experienced jumper pack it, I have tried deploying head-up, head-down and in a track, I am out of ideas.

I figure the first step is to check brake settings, and have contacted Aerodyne and am waiting on trim settings. After I check that out, if it all matches, they want me to send it back for test jumping.

I have talked with other Pilot owners, and they tell me that they do not experience anything like this.

Any recommendations or advice would be appreciated.

Wild Bill

"Better a has-been than a never-was. Better a never-was than a never-tried-to-be..."

[phoenixlpr 0]

Are you talking about a terminal or a sub-terminal opening?

What problem can cause surge forward?

What big-ways are you planing ?

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[steelyeye 0]

It happens terminal, sub-terminal or super-terminal.

I was thinking that if the brake line stow position was too long (brakes not being stowed "enough"), that might cause the problem.

I am not planning any big ways, but always up for one! (anything past 4 is a big way to me!)

Wild Bill

"Better a has-been than a never-was. Better a never-was than a never-tried-to-be..."

[phoenixlpr 0]

What is super-terminal?

AFAK off-heading opening can be a problem with big-ways.

I can't see any real problem with your openings.

[aubsmell 0]

Bill,

I'm not going to give you the official Aerodyne line on this one, since it sounds like you already spoke to someone in the loft.

However, I will make some suggestions:

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I have been standard pro-packing it without rolling the nose. I have tried rolling the nose, I have had a very experienced jumper pack it, I have tried deploying head-up, head-down and in a track, I am out of ideas.

You have 56 jumps listed in your profile. How about deploying terminal (or slightly de-arched), in a good body position with your hips and sholders square and semetrical. That would be a good start.

You say you only have 10 jumps on the canopy, if you have deployed, head down, head high, terminal, sub terminal in a track etc, etc, etc, that doesn't leave many good solid normal consistant deployments?

I'd say when you get the line trim charts from Jody, or Sandy, have a rigger check them out, and if they are correct. Still do a few jumps on the canopy and concentrait on proper body postion. There still may be nothing wrong.

I will say that the power of suggestion can be pretty strong. And if someone said "wow that looked funky" on your first subterminal jump, then you go out looking for something wrong on each jump after that, altering your body position each time. You ARE going to find something wrong.

Especially multiplied by the fact that you are relativily inexperienced, and don't have many jumps on this particular canopy or design.

a couple of side notes, I tried to look through all of our sales of a Pilot 188 to anyone named Bill, and I didn't see you in there, could you give me in a PM the serial number of the canopy, or your first and last name, or the distributor who you bought the canopy from... Just for my own interest.

Last but not least (here is the plug) if you or we do find something wrong with the canopy, you bought that sucker from Aerodyne man, you know we are going to take care of you.... we'll fix it or replace it, and maybe even make jody give you a foot rub.

Cheers,

Aubrey

"Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it"

[tr027 0]

Bill,

Just trade it out for Jay's canopy, cause when I flew Jay's last Saturday it worked fine. He won't notice..

-TR

"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957

[Feeblemind 1]

My pilot 210 flys like a dream. Great soft on heading openings. Sometimes the endcells are closed, but that has happened on other canopies I have jumped. I just pump the rear risers once or twice and fly home.

If you are really concerned have your rigger jump the canopy.

Phil

Fire Safety Tip: Don't fry bacon while naked

[pela 0]

I own pilot 188 and I made almost 80 jumps on it, This canopy is great, very nice soft and on heading openings, I'm very happy with that canopy. I'm very proud of my self that I pick that one. Plus I bought for very good price in the end of last year :)
ThX to Sonic from the Ranch,

adrenaline

[freakyrat 1]

I own a Pilot 124 (loaded 1.5) that I have about 15 jumps on. I have never had a problem with the openings on the canopy and I have opened it a little head low. I just don't have a rig to put it in yet as I would like to be able to jump it more.

In packing my Pilot, I use a standard propack and just leave the nose open and quarter the slider.

Aubrey from Aerodyne gave you some of the best tips on how to solve your problem if any problem exists at all.

Hope this helps.

Chris

[JustaBill 0]

My Pilot 188 opens a little funky at times too. It seems to like to dive to the right. I had a friend go up with me and watch my deployment and he noticed I was dropping my right shoulder as I threw out. Sure enough, made some more jumps and really concentrated on being symmetrical and it opened great. No dive and perfectly on heading. I would suggest really trying to be symmetrical through out the opening and see if that helps. Keep in mind I only have about 30 jumps on mind, but it's a place to start.

------------------------------------------------
I've done so much, with so little, for so long
I'm now expected to do everything with nothing forever

[davelepka 4]

56 jumps? Brand new Pilot?


How about your packing sucks, and is inconsistant with the slippery material. Your body position during your openings is probably also inconsistant.

A slow opening canopy with a light WL that has closed end cells? YOU DON'T SAY!

OK I'm done busting your nuts. This is most likey a case of a new-to-you canopy, and possibly some incorrect expectations and micro-analyzing on your part.

Have an experienced jumper (1000 jumps min.) take it up and see what they think. Have them check your steering line lengths while they're up there, I'm sure everything will be fine.

By the way, the break-off and opening are at least half the fun of a big way. The other half is being the last diver out and swooping the formation. I could do with out all the hand-holdy stuff in the middle.

[inextremis 0]

Sometimes it can be the most simple of things. Go to the cascades on your brake lines, and begin untwisting the lines, moving slowly downward toward the toggles. If you have never done that, I suspect they are twisted up (and therefore short and out of trim). Depending on how you handle your toggles after landing you could have thirty or more twists in a line--no kidding. I have had a number of canopies that rocked forward and backward when the brake lines were twisted up. I untwist them every dozen jumps or so, or when I have extra time packing at the end of a day. Can definitely make a difference on front/rear rocking on opening. Blue skies. Tom

[phoenixlpr 0]

I have one. It's not a hell after 50 jumps, but the first 20 pack job suck much.

[riggerrob 558]

30 years ago, skydivers complained that ram-airs were dangerous because they "surged" on opening.
Now "surging" is the norm.
Like wise, you can complain about hard openings or you can complain about the end cells taking too long to open.
Shees!
Just be thankful that you are not jumping my old Strato-Star, which used to loose end cells every time I turned onto final approach.

Joke: What is the difference between skydivers and turbine engines?
Turbines quit whining at the end of the day.
Hee!
Hee!

[dgskydive 0]

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You say you only have 10 jumps on the canopy, if you have deployed, head down, head high, terminal, sub terminal in a track etc, etc, etc, that doesn't leave many good solid normal consistant deployments?

That is what I was thinking. Tha is one of the nicest things about the Pilot......the openings.


If it truly is a problem with the canopy I assure you Aerodyne will make you happy. They always do.

Donbn't think peopel are beating you up by some of the staments they have made. They are trying to gove you help on deployments. Usually it is body position that leads to weird opening. Sounds like they are getting you the trim specs on it. You will know soon enough.

Also let a packer try and pack it. Let a more experienced jumper jump it and see what they say as well. What are you loading the canopy at? I wonder if you are really light and that may cause the end cells to stay closed.

Dom

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[jumper03 0]

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Also let a packer try and pack it. Let a more experienced jumper jump it and see what they say as well. What are you loading the canopy at? I wonder if you are really light and that may cause the end cells to stay closed.

I'm a packer and have put about 50 jumps on a pilot 210, and I'm 195 out the door. I've found the left end cells are always closed on opening no matter wth I do to it when packing. However, just a little brakes and there you go, they inflate quickly. even with the closed end cells the openings are on heading and soft.

Scars remind us that the past is real

[mjosparky 3]

Go up and make 3 or 4 jumps with a video flyer and have them video you opening from different angles. That should give a good idea what you and the canopy are doing on opening.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[steelyeye 0]

Dave - Thanks for the nut busting... about what I have come to expect
Jumped a same-sized Pilot with a very experienced jumper watching my deployment. Everything happened just the same way.

So...

1. I owe a case of beer to Aubrey and the crew at Aerodyne. I guess I was over-reacting to the surge on deployment.

2. My body position and deployment were just fine.

3. The surge is certainly more than I have seen on larger "student" canopies, but not something that is unusual.

4. In reply to riggerrob - I understand your point - My openings under a RW-Para-Commander were very different and very gentle. Go rounds (with a little motrin, ice and "medicinal" whiskey)!

Overall, Thanks to the Dropzone.com crowd for some great advice and things to work on and thanks to Aubrey and his bunch at Aerodyne - Great company, great chute! (I did trade with Jay in the end - Gotta go with the red/blue vs. blue/white/teal!)

Thanks all,

Wild Bill

"Better a has-been than a never-was. Better a never-was than a never-tried-to-be..."