Unstable 8 #1 July 30, 2010 We have an interesting guy in town - He is a member of the Commemorative Airborne Wing out of Oklahoma, and he spend his free time traveling around the Country, jumping out of their DC-3, decked out in Full WW2 Garb, face paint, et cetera. He's jumped in Normandy, Germany, Paris Airshow, Farnborough, everywhere.... I went to his office Today (he owns a Turbine Training School) and he was showing me all his stuff. Fantastic Equipment - Some vintage, some New.... He has about 130 jumps or so. He inquired about jumping with us every now and again. His stuff, just give him a pass at 2k. Rigs are good and current, he just wants a pass over the DZ. He has no USPA or sport skydiving credentials, even though he is a member of USPA. From a Safety and training standpoint, has anyone seen this? I have no doubt of his abilities, but has anyone run into this? Our S&TA emailed USPA, but they didn't have too much experience with these folks...=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wayneflorida 0 #2 July 30, 2010 Not an instructor but I say: Wavier s/l instructor in airplane Winds ok for round & student. deploy or jump run 3,000 feet. Basicly treat him like a student. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #3 July 31, 2010 I'd take him up.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #4 July 31, 2010 QuoteI'd take him up. Provided I was able to make the call, I would too. Hell, 2 grand is high for them!"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Master_Yoda 0 #5 July 31, 2010 QuoteQuoteI'd take him up. Provided I was able to make the call, I would too. Hell, 2 grand is high for them! Yup. Normal altitude for tactical static line jumps is 800 ft... and usually at night. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #6 August 1, 2010 I am not sure how old this fella is, but if he is both physically and mentally capable of continuing to make static line jumps, and your DZ Rigger vouches for the airworthiness of the gear, I would do everything I could to accomodate him. Assuming that your aircraft is capable of static line jumps the nuts and bolts of it are easy (spotting the airplane and putting him out (which he can probably do himself) and retrieving the static line). The most important part is making sure the weather conditions are safe for an SL jump and choosing the spot (he may be able to do that himself as well). From my experience (I personally know a guy just like this), a lot of these guys will continue to do these demos regardless of how often they actually jump . . . if you accomodate him at your DZ you my be making his demos safer in the process. Additionally, you contribute to this gent and his team honoring a group of soldiers that should never be forgotten or takn for granted. I have met many of them over the years - they are incredible men that took on unfathomable tasks at a very young age.Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,625 #7 August 1, 2010 Quote I went to his office Today (he owns a Turbine Training School) and he was showing me all his stuff. Fantastic Equipment - Some vintage, some New.... He has about 130 jumps or so. 130 is a whole lot more than they had on D-Day over Normandy, at night.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #8 August 1, 2010 Check the length of his static-line to ensure that it is shorter than the distance from the anchor point to the horizontal tail of the airplane, to prevent jamming the controls. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #9 August 1, 2010 The S&TA is wigging out on the No ADD and No RSL and no USPA A lic.... it's a GM DZ. I LOL and and said ooooo big deal SL on a round with no AAD & RSL...... you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #10 August 1, 2010 Quote The S&TA is wigging out on the No ADD and No RSL and no USPA A lic.... it's a GM DZ. I LOL and and said ooooo big deal SL on a round with no AAD & RSL...... "I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SEREJumper 1 #11 August 1, 2010 800ft is for high performance aircraft. Low performance (90 knots or less) the military training recommendation is 1,500ft. (This is an interesting link to minimum deployment altitudes with rounds in the military for training and wartime) https://rdl.train.army.mil/soldierPortal/atia/adlsc/view/public/10629-1/FM/3-21.220/chap15.htm 3000ft is a little high in my opinion, you are exposing the jumper to possible extra altitude winds. 1500-2000ft sounds reasonable in my experience. Also, if he jumps with the WWII Airborne Demonstration team from OK, they don't utilize the traditional military direct bag static line. It has a pilot chute assist. Only a static line to pull in, no d-bag. I say go for it! (with a good spot :) )We're not fucking flying airplanes are we, no we're flying a glorified kite with no power and it should be flown like one! - Stratostar Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #12 August 2, 2010 anyone got an airworty sentinal they want to get rid of, I can make a stevens laynard in two seconds....Oh that's right the BSR's say I have to give a student a square reserve......roflamo you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 261 #13 August 2, 2010 Quote We have an interesting guy in town - He is a member of the Commemorative Airborne Wing out of Oklahoma, So I'm curious, what qualifications does he have? Anything military, or some paperwork from the Commemorative Airborne Wing? Interesting issue, how to deal with someone with non-USPA experience at a USPA DZ. (Where the person isn't, say, a foreigner with an FAI approved skydiving licence.) It is implied that they do demos outside of USPA rules. So that gets into the details of what constitutes a demo, what the demo rules are, and to what degree the FAA accepts demos outside of the rules of the sport parachuting association known as the USPA. (E.g., like the Red Bull guys who could have gone to the FAA directly but wanted to get an allowance from the USPA first to do low opening demo jumps, if I recall the story correctly .) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlindBrick 0 #14 August 9, 2010 A few years back, we had an older gentleman who was just a few pounds shy of our weight limit show up on hot summer day. He took the fjc and then proceed to badly break both of his legs very badly by not even attempting to flare on landing. He admitted in the ambulance that he was trying to join the CAW and wanted to do hsi landing just like they did. -Blind"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #15 August 9, 2010 It is implied that they do demos outside of USPA rules. So that gets into the details of what constitutes a demo, what the demo rules are, and to what degree the FAA accepts demos outside of the rules of the sport parachuting association known as the USPA. It's not implied it's fact, however as we all know, one does NOT need to be affiliated with the USPA in order to successfully do demos...it just makes it easier with the feds. That said, I think this may start to become a bit of a problem for said demo team(s). Many events require additional USPA 3rd party insurance which isn't valid if licenses, ratings and all the paperwork isn't kosher...I won't do a demo without it and as a homeowner etc. I also carry some added personal liability coverage. Also the question of overall qualifications comes into play when for example~ a re-enactment jumper is exiting at 1500' using period specific emergency procedures but somewhat modern sport parachute equipment. Some are using 26' lopo lite reserves...with a full diaper and a pilotchute however they have no intention of cutting away should they need said reserve. Anyone see a problem with that? I've seen several of these type teams on the airshow circuit over the past 30 years, seen good performances and some not so good. (the guy that landed on an F-16 20 some years ago is probably still making payments) This most recent team, that happens to have a name VERY similar to popular civilian demo team that has been around about 30 years... caught my interest and I'm perhaps looking with a rather focused eye since there IS some confusion regarding which team is who. It's possible an incident involving one team may reflect poorly on the other, so in peeling the onion a bit, I see some areas of concern that should maybe be addressed sooner rather than later. Teams of this sort DO put on an interesting performance and there is definitely a place in the demonstration world for them, I believe however that as much or more attention should be put on the parachuting part of the act as is on the running around shooting blanks. But I digress, to address the question~ As a drop-zone operator would I let someone without a license or USPA affiliation make a parachute jump from my aircraft using gear and procedures not necessarily conducive to a safe jump? Probably not. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
