Slappie 9 #1 April 28, 2004 I started to just glance at the site and look at pictures, then I started reading. Wow! Here you can see what it's like since that April in 1986. "Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #2 April 28, 2004 I read through that whole "journal" a few weeks ago. I was impressed and amazed and shocked all at once. She tells a good story and the pictures are astonishing. So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slappie 9 #3 April 28, 2004 QuoteI read through that whole "journal" a few weeks ago. I was impressed and amazed and shocked all at once. She tells a good story and the pictures are astonishing. It's very sureal. Kinda reminds me of a horror story / post apocoliptic world. I dunno, I would kind of like to make the trip myself. Then again it would creep me out to much. "Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #4 April 28, 2004 She mentions that as she enters the city limits of Chernobyl, something like "the silence is deafening". The stories of the people that fought the fires are difficult to grasp - they died the same day, just for being there.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrunkMonkey 0 #5 April 28, 2004 I'm stunned. It is testament that the soviet system was broke. Their Reactors were fundamentally flawed, and they persisted to run them despite pleas to the contrary... Very sad. I'm no nuclear physicist, but IIRC, our reactor designs are inherently immune from that kind of meltdown...lest the Greenpeace nuts try to seize on this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slappie 9 #6 April 28, 2004 QuoteI'm stunned. It is testament that the soviet system was broke. Their Reactors were fundamentally flawed, and they persisted to run them despite pleas to the contrary... Very sad. I'm no nuclear physicist, but IIRC, our reactor designs are inherently immune from that kind of meltdown...lest the Greenpeace nuts try to seize on this. The reactors in the US are pretty safe from this kinda of disater. I wouldn't say immune though. Three Mile Island taught the NRC alot. We almost had one 10 years before the Soviets. We learned and incorpirated safety stops and better technology in todays reactors. I still don't think it's a safe way to produce power. The whole thing was a sad testement to the Soviet system. All those people died. Forced to die in some cases. An entire part of the world in uninhabitable to humans because of one mistake. Hell animals probably shouldn't be able to live there. I'd like to see more information about the Chernobyl site. The research that's been done since. Nothing is really released because it's such tragic news. "Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #7 April 28, 2004 QuoteHell animals probably shouldn't be able to live there. Well, there are some pictures of wild horses that appear to be living okay. Nature finds a way. The whole thing is "other-worldlike".So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrunkMonkey 0 #8 April 28, 2004 Granted, not completely immune, but nuclear power is preferable to being OPEC's bitch. It would seem that wind, solar, water, and geothermal still have not been developed enough to scrap nuke power... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,471 #9 April 28, 2004 I recently read something amazing about that area - namely that it is one of the most healthy and diverse ecosystems in the region. The radiation is surely a negative, but the positive influence of excluding humans from the area far overwhelms it. Sad that we are worse for the ecosystem than crippling doses of radiation. Dr. Victor Baryakhtar, Vice President for Ukraine's Academy of Sciences, observed that "Northern Ukraine is the cleanest part of the nation. It has only radiation." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flyer2Diver 0 #10 April 28, 2004 Quote I'm no nuclear physicist, but IIRC, our reactor designs are inherently immune from that kind of meltdown...lest the Greenpeace nuts try to seize on this. Correct - The specific condition that caused reactor 4 to explode isn't possible in US designs. The issue there was the "positive void coefficient" inherent in the reactor design - graphite was used to as a moderator (required to sustain the nuclear fission reaction) - and when the cooling water boiled away, it allowed the chain reaction to speed up which caused a steam explosion. In most other types of reactors, water is used as a moderator AND coolant, hence if water is lost or boils, the chain reaction slows down by itself. In addition to the technical problem with their reactor design, the soviet system was bass-ackwards and lead people to take all sorts of chances with the reactor. 3 mile island was a different kind of problem - a valve got stuck open, draining much of the cooling water, and the operators shut down the emergency cooling systems due to confusing control room instrumentation readings. I'll take the (well managed) risks of nuclear power any day of the week as opposed to the very well known environmental and political problems associated with burning fossel fuels._______________________________ 30005KT 10SM SKC 23/05 A3006 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,471 #11 April 28, 2004 >We almost had one 10 years before the Soviets. Well, not quite. Everything went wrong at TMI - two simultaneous systems failures followed by two incredibly stupid decisions by operators (including shutting off the main and emergency coolant systems!) and a LOCA, the worst possible reactor event. End result - damaged core, no injuries. If that's the worst that can happen to a US reactor we are still well ahead of the RBMK designs. >I still don't think it's a safe way to produce power. I think you're right, but it's still safer than, say, coal or natural gas. No one has yet been killed by a commercial nuclear power plant accident in the US; that can't be said for any other form of utility-scale power. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slappie 9 #12 April 28, 2004 I'll be the first to admit I don't know that much Thanks for the explinations. "Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #13 April 28, 2004 Wow........just read the whole thing. Absolutely awe inspiring. Makes you think about a line from the Matrix. Something about humans being like a virus........ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #14 December 8, 2009 *BUMP* that's truely an amazing site; there's more of those trips at www.elenafilatova.com! inspiring - i'd love to do the trip.. the most astonishing thing is, people start moving back there; they dont have any other place to go.. “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SARLDO 0 #15 December 8, 2009 Nice bump. That's some pretty good writing and frightening to read about what went on there."Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest" ~Samuel Clemens MB#4300 Dudeist Skydiver #68 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #16 December 8, 2009 found the site some place in SC; couldnt stop reading and watching for days.. call it "professional interest"! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,471 #17 December 8, 2009 It's also mostly a hoax. A girl took the pictures during a supervised government tour, not during a motorcycle ride. Pictures are dramatic though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mircan 0 #18 December 8, 2009 Quote found the site some place in SC; couldnt stop reading and watching for days.. call it "professional interest"! "Fallout" fan?dudeist skydiver #42 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #19 December 8, 2009 Quote Quote found the site some place in SC; couldnt stop reading and watching for days.. call it "professional interest"! "Fallout" fan? nooky plant safety operator! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #20 December 8, 2009 Quote>We almost had one 10 years before the Soviets. Well, not quite. Everything went wrong at TMI - two simultaneous systems failures followed by two incredibly stupid decisions by operators (including shutting off the main and emergency coolant systems!) and a LOCA, the worst possible reactor event. End result - damaged core, no injuries. If that's the worst that can happen to a US reactor we are still well ahead of the RBMK designs. >I still don't think it's a safe way to produce power. I think you're right, but it's still safer than, say, coal or natural gas. No one has yet been killed by a commercial nuclear power plant accident in the US; that can't be said for any other form of utility-scale power. Lets not forget about the meldown at the Enrico Fermi nuclear power plant in the mid 1960's. No radiation was released.. BUT it was certainly a near miss that could have severely affected the entire Detroit/Toledo area. I think the worst accident on record in this country was the SL-1 reactor explosion and meldown in the early 1960's... 3 operators died. They did not find the third guy till a few days later due to his location ... impaled by a rod to the cieling of the containment building. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #21 December 8, 2009 QuoteQuote>We almost had one 10 years before the Soviets. Well, not quite. Everything went wrong at TMI - two simultaneous systems failures followed by two incredibly stupid decisions by operators (including shutting off the main and emergency coolant systems!) and a LOCA, the worst possible reactor event. End result - damaged core, no injuries. If that's the worst that can happen to a US reactor we are still well ahead of the RBMK designs. >I still don't think it's a safe way to produce power. I think you're right, but it's still safer than, say, coal or natural gas. No one has yet been killed by a commercial nuclear power plant accident in the US; that can't be said for any other form of utility-scale power. Lets not forget about the meldown at the Enrico Fermi nuclear power plant in the mid 1960's. No radiation was released.. BUT it was certainly a near miss that could have severely affected the entire Detroit/Toledo area. I think the worst accident on record in this country was the SL-1 reactor explosion and meldown in the early 1960's... 3 operators died. They did not find the third guy till a few days later due to the smell ... impaled by a rod to the cieling of the containment building. there, fixed it for you!“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #22 December 8, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuote>We almost had one 10 years before the Soviets. Well, not quite. Everything went wrong at TMI - two simultaneous systems failures followed by two incredibly stupid decisions by operators (including shutting off the main and emergency coolant systems!) and a LOCA, the worst possible reactor event. End result - damaged core, no injuries. If that's the worst that can happen to a US reactor we are still well ahead of the RBMK designs. >I still don't think it's a safe way to produce power. I think you're right, but it's still safer than, say, coal or natural gas. No one has yet been killed by a commercial nuclear power plant accident in the US; that can't be said for any other form of utility-scale power. Lets not forget about the meldown at the Enrico Fermi nuclear power plant in the mid 1960's. No radiation was released.. BUT it was certainly a near miss that could have severely affected the entire Detroit/Toledo area. I think the worst accident on record in this country was the SL-1 reactor explosion and meldown in the early 1960's... 3 operators died. They did not find the third guy till a few days later due to the smell ... impaled by a rod to the cieling of the containment building. there, fixed it for you! I dont think it was the smell.... since they would have had on suits... and respirators. Even when retrieving his body they could only work in tow man teams for a maximum of 65 seconds in the hot environment before they had a full dose. The details of that accident are an interesting read. It would be interesting to find out how many health problems the guys who had to clean up that mess ended up with in the rest of their lives. I dont think I have ever seen that data. It was also interesting what they had to do to bury all threee of the guys.. all of themhandled as high level radioactive waste. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d16842 0 #23 December 8, 2009 QuoteQuoteI'm stunned. It is testament that the soviet system was broke. Their Reactors were fundamentally flawed, and they persisted to run them despite pleas to the contrary... Very sad. I'm no nuclear physicist, but IIRC, our reactor designs are inherently immune from that kind of meltdown...lest the Greenpeace nuts try to seize on this. The reactors in the US are pretty safe from this kinda of disater. Today perhaps. But not at the time of Chernobyl. When it went down, I am virtually sure we were still running three or four Hanford, WA DOE reactors, under a tin roof with no effective containment, just like... Chernobyl. They were built to create plutonium for nuclear weapons, and some ran from the mid-40's, until we got too afraid to keep running them.Tom B Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #24 December 8, 2009 QuoteI recently read something amazing about that area - namely that it is one of the most healthy and diverse ecosystems in the region. The radiation is surely a negative, but the positive influence of excluding humans from the area far overwhelms it. Sad that we are worse for the ecosystem than crippling doses of radiation. Not necessarily. You see only the animals that have survived running around there. We have no idea how many animals were stillborn or were born with lethal birth defects due to the radiation. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #25 December 8, 2009 QuoteQuoteI recently read something amazing about that area - namely that it is one of the most healthy and diverse ecosystems in the region. The radiation is surely a negative, but the positive influence of excluding humans from the area far overwhelms it. Sad that we are worse for the ecosystem than crippling doses of radiation. Not necessarily. You see only the animals that have survived running around there. We have no idea how many animals were stillborn or were born with lethal birth defects due to the radiation. according to numerous sources, it's supposed to be pretty good; unlike most of the fuckrainians that have problems with their - whatever you call it - them thingies they cut out a lot of the times and give you icecream to eat afterwards at the hospital..“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
