collapsable pilot chute uncocking itself?

[crotalus01 0]

i have a Sabre 190 with a collapsible pilot chute. the last 4 or 5 times i have packed it and gone a week or more between jumps, when i check the window it is "collapsed", i.e. no color in the window. 4 of the 5 times i extracted the PC on the ground it caught air okay, but once it was totally uncocked (would have been a PC in tow for sure). i know for a fact i cocked it on every repack. why does the PC uncock itself? as i said, it only seems to happen if i go a week or so between jumps....UpnDownShop told me to tie a knot in the bridle when i am packing (after cocking) and thats all good, but i want to know WHY and HOW it is uncocking. any ideas? thx.

As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD...

[duroejc 0]

Is this completely un-cocked? Mine will move 1/4" so the telltale ink mark is out of the viewing window on the bridle- I just made the ink mark a bit bigger. Can't say I'd recommend tying a knot in the bridle- one slip in concentration could have disasterous results. Not a rigger- so lets see what they say

[sundevil777 94]

The bag probably moved up the bridle after you cocked it. As you throw your canopy around and down, it is easy for it to happen.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[bodypilot1 0]

I dout that its uncocking itself while it packed. But as Sundevil said, you are probably letting it uncock as you pack it.

Try putting a rubber band on the link that attaches the D bag and bridle.
Then after you cock your pc, rubberband up the extra little lenght of bridle that is inside the bag.
This will keep it from uncocking while you pack.

I'd take a picture for you, but both my rigs are packed at the moment, for once.

Edited to add: NEVER tie a knot in your bridle.
You may forget to untie it before you stow your pc and jump it.



Be safe.
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[Avion 0]

I had this problem too. As it turns out, the bridle is loose around the kill line, and this lets the PC uncock unless you take extra care with it.

I cock the PC after I have the canopy in the back and the two locking gromets secured. Before I bag the canopy, I make sure the length of bridle inside the bag is is right between the bag gromet and the canopy attachment point. This allows the bridle to scrunch up without wrapping around any part of the canopy when it's cocked. Any snags or wraps can act like a spring and slowly uncock the PC as you finish the pack job.

I use this order because at times I would find just the process of bagging the canopy had uncocked the PC. Lately, I've actually been doing both: Cocking the PC before bagging the canopy, then making sure the scrunched bridle is free and clear of any wraps or snags, then cocking the PC again after bagging the canopy just to make sure.

Also, now as part of evey pre-jump equipment check, I make sure the bridle window show a cocked PC. I arrange it so the window is visible as soon as you open the main pin flap. The kill line might slip just enough to move the color out of the window and the PC will still catch air. But, I always make sure the color is showing just to maintain a good habit, if the color has moved out of the window, I'll pull the bag and re-cock the PC.

Cheers

[BIGUN 1,065]

THere is another scenario to consider... I've seen many people not see the color in the window and milking the bridle down till they see color. This is a false cock and the bridle will "unscrunch" itself moving the color out of the window.

Place your foot on the D-bag and cock the P/C. Then reach into the bottom of the P/C (while it's still over your shoulder) and grab the kill line between the P/C and bridle and pull it some more. If the color does not come into the window, then your kill line has shrunk and needs replaced.

Something to test.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[sundevil777 94]

I think a better way to check if the kill line has shunk is to confirm that the pieces of webbing in the PC is what actually limits the PC, and not the kill line - it should have slack when you stretch out the PC.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[BIGUN 1,065]

How many people with 40 jumps knows what that means. If you test it the way suggested, you'll know whether or not to take it to a rigger, who can do what you said.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[beezyshaw 0]

[reply...]told me to tie a knot in the bridle when i am packing

[bodypilot1 0]

Quote

Anybody else agree with this?

Nope.

I replied the same just 5 posts up.



Be safe.
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[dgskydive 0]

I agree Beezy. I see a lot of people do it though.

I haven't seen to many PC's that don't do what this jumper is talking about. Mine very rarely shows color after I pack it up. I double and triple check it before it is put in the bag. The kill line shrinks a bit after use or it will move around as you are stowing it. Never been a problem for me though.

Dom

[jumper03 0]

Quote

Quote

Anybody else agree with this?

Nope.
I replied the same just 5 posts up.
Be safe.
Ed

alright, so you tie a knot in the bridle close to the pilot chute. If you forget and the knot is stowed in the excess rolled up in the pilot chute, all you have now is an uncollapsible pilot chute right? If you tie it close to the bag - then you get a knot inside the container which could be bad.

The reason I throw this out is that I see a lot of experienced packers and jumpers doing this and to my recollection, all tie the knot about a foot from the pc.

What am I missing?

Scars remind us that the past is real

[beezyshaw 0]

A knot in your bridle is first of all not necessary. It is adding a step that doesn't need to happen. It puts extra wear and tear on the bridle. Depending on the type of knot, which I assume here is a sort of slip-knot which is easy to un-do, it is leaving a loop in the bridle that if left there will invite problems. This step in packing is just dumb. Just cock the pilot chute in the right sequence, and go jump. Plain and simple. Just because the centerline of the pilot chute moves an inch or so and the colored section moves slightly does NOT mean the pilot chute is collapsed. That little bit of movement doesn't change a thing. If you feel you have to see that green (or whatever) color in the little window, after you close your container put your foot on the pin and re-cock the pilot chute, then stow it in the pouch.

[crotalus01 0]

thanks for the suggestions. and just to clarify, i was told to slip knot the bridle about a foot from the PC, so i would be sure to see it when finishing the pack job. totally agree putting a knot near the d-bag is asking for trouble. and the reason i asked about the situation here is because i dont want to knot the bridle to begin with. thanks again for the help.

As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD...

[bodypilot1 0]

Quote

If you forget and the knot is stowed in the excess rolled up in the pilot chute, all you have now is an uncollapsible pilot chute right? If you tie it close to the bag - then you get a knot inside the container which could be bad.

Basically, but as Beezy said, it probably wont kill ya, it's an extra step thats not needed, extra wear on the bridle and then you get the jumper always heading to the rigger whining that they cant get the knot out after they forgot to untie it.

Quote

I see a lot of experienced packers and jumpers doing this and to my recollection, all tie the knot about a foot from the pc

.


I've seen few, but most know how to cock the pc again after the canopy is in the bag.


Be safe.
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[jumper03 0]

Quote

I've seen few, but most know how to cock the pc again after the canopy is in the bag.

I don't tie a knot. Just inquiring as to what could happen.

My packing procedure is to cock the pilot chute when it's laid down initially, when I throw the cocoon on the ground and when I put the bag behind the rig. Rather safe than sorry.

Scars remind us that the past is real

[bodypilot1 0]

Quote

Rather safe than sorry.

You can say that again.


Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[Motab 0]

Quote

If you feel you have to see that green (or whatever) color in the little window, after you close your container put your foot on the pin and re-cock the pilot chute, then stow it in the pouch.

So what's the last point that someone should be comfortable re-cocking the pilot chute? I mean, I've had the same problem. The grey on my kill line is always like 1/4" out of the window, so people keep on asking me questions during my pin checks. Which is fine, I triple check the thing, but still, it'd be nice to have a quick visual.

Back to my original question though, I've tried it after I've got the pin in the closing loop, but then the bridle above the pin gets all compressed and weird looking. (i.e., not smooth). I feel pretty comfortable doing it after I've done all the stows and I'm about to put the bag in the container, but after that just seems... i dunno, weird for a reason I can't put my finger on. Any thoughts?

I'm not not licking toads....

[Jumpmunki 0]

one of the things i do is to stow the excess inner bridle (the flappy stuff that is left when you cock the pc that is INSIDE the bag?)

i fold it a couple of times and stow it with a bungee this stops it uncocking and stops the excess grabbing material on deployment, never had any problems with it...

just cock it fully fully, then skribble a new "green for go" in the window!

[ChrisD 0]

Worth mentioning again....

christopherm

"I cock the pc before I even start to pack it.. Then once again when it is packed sitting in the container before I close it just to make sure."

Maybe not the best thing to do, many times the pilot chute can work itself uncocked while you spend all that time packing it. I have gotten in the habit of cocking after i throw it down and checking it again before I put it in the container. Not necesarily a better way, but something to think about.

-So, how hard is the ground?!

Notes from the Know it all:

THIS

This is actually a common problem that frequently gets overlooked.

Your getting the air out of your canopy, on the ground, laying on everything and you notice the bridal and PC under everything, so you pull on the bridal to geet it out of the way....

this de cocks the PC. You forget to check, cause you already cocked the PC, in your head you have already checked everything so you forget to check the window...Then you close everything up...

Watch for this and you will see hundreds of people do this everyday....


C

yes the spectra line shrinks, but try and remember the nylon bridal line also stretches as well...

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[skyjumpenfool 2]

I'm not a rigger.... but I have 3 steps in my packing procedure dedicated to cocking the PC.
1. Right before I set the brakes
2. Right after I complete the locking stows (more of a check really) I check the PC to be sure it stayed cocked.
3. Again just before I fold the PC

FWIW?

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[councilman24 36]

Resurrecting 8 year old threads with posts from dead friends plays too much with my mind. Might I suggest starting and new thread and linking back if need be.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[ChrisD 0]

councilman24

Resurrecting 8 year old threads with posts from dead friends plays too much with my mind. Might I suggest starting and new thread and linking back if need be.

I'm sorry about your friends, but I don't know who is and who isn't alive.

I read the stickies and try to find information from many past posts, perhaps I'm the only one who does?

Bringing up an old post saves time for some, and considering the number of times I have read others fast on the draw to criticize any and all, I usually find old threads in the hopes that someone can learn from others. Especially when something that is so simple as grabbing your PC from under your canopy during packing can undo the thing...

I searched and found this thread to resurrect because it covered so much ground but it seems to overlook this very common practice which could and I suspect has caused some, some grief.

I would be proud of your friend for participating and getting involved to help others....

I did repost my point about how pulling on the bridal can "uncock a set PC."

I now await all of those that will point out that this has already been covered elsewhere, which it has, but this one was soo deeply buried that it is basically hidden in a few other threads. When I saw this in more than a few packing classes, and in more than a few company sponsored vid's, and in my travels have seen this all too frequently I decided it was worthy of mentioning again in a thread titled things that can cause a collapsible pilot chute to uncock itself....

Again sorry about your buddy, I know this feeling well...
C

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[Gene03 0]

As a packer the first thing I do is tie a loose slipknot in the bridle just above the bag.

This keeps the PC cocked for the pack job.

Pull out the knot while bagging the canopy.

Even if you forget to untie it you just have a non collapsible PC for that jump.

“The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him.

Stanislaw Jerzy Lec quotes (Polish writer, poet and satirist 1906-1966)