can you pick your rig up by it's main pin flap?

[Newbie 0]

I was reading this article about freefly progression, safety and gear etc...

http://www.skydiveuk.com/avalore/articles/freeflyprogression.pdf


and i tried to pick my rig up slowly and gently by pulling on the main pin tuck tab. Well i have a Teardrop SF and the tuck tab doesn't have side tucks, and i can't lift the rig up - the tab just comes open. Now i know that the rig is designed for freeflyers, but is this something i should look into further? I was wondering if anyone out there had a rig with the same issue. The reserve pin is against my back, so it's really only the main pin cover that concerns me.

Thanks for some feedback.

Edited for bad link

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[AggieDave 6]

Lets see...

Are you actually supposed to pick a rig up by the flaps? Is that what they were designed to do?

Do the flaps on your rig do what they were designed to do, which is stay closed until you deploy? If so then whats the worry about?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Newbie 0]

well so far (to my knowledge) i have never had the main pin cover come open during flight, but then i haven't done any HD yet, which is when i'll have the relative wind pushing "down" on the cover, which could expose it that way perhaps? (in a sit, the wind pushes "up" on the tab, so i figure it is more likely to keep it secured while head up).

I did think it was weird that, as a test, they say to pick the rig up like that, which is sort of what preempted this question. So am i worrying over nothing then?

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[riggerrob 561]

Quote

I was reading this article about freefly progression, safety and gear etc...

http://www.skydiveuk.com/...eeflyprogression.pdf


and i tried to pick my rig up slowly and gently by pulling on the main pin tuck tab. Well i have a Teardrop SF and the tuck tab doesn't have side tucks, and i can't lift the rig up - the tab just comes open. Now i know that the rig is designed for freeflyers, but is this something i should look into further? I was wondering if anyone out there had a rig with the same issue. The reserve pin is against my back, so it's really only the main pin cover that concerns me.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

Infinity is one of the few rigs that will pass your test.

Most other rigs' main pin covers will open ...
Some have to open for the main container to open.
The real question is whether the pin cover will protect your pin at all angles of freefall.

Thanks for some feedback.

[AggieDave 6]

Well, I can't pick up my Wings by the flap and it hasn't come open, even doing 275mph on my head it didn't come open. I can't pick up the Vector3 Microns by their flap and those are bullet proof rigs, I can't pick up Mirage rigs by the main flap and those are bullet proof FF rigs...

I could go on, but you see my point right?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Newbie 0]

yup thanks guys.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[gus 1]

The text reads:

Quote

Your container should fit well. You should not
use a leg throwaway system, only BOC throw out
or pull out is acceptable. The leg straps should fit
right and not easily slip down your legs, you
should also have some kind of bungee between
to the two leg straps to make sure they do not
move around in freefall. It should have good riser
and bridle protection with an absolute maximum
of 1” exposed bridle near the BOC. Your pins
should be tight as well as their covers. A good
test is to gently lift your rig by each pin cover
separately, if the covers stays closed then your
good to go but if the cover opens when lifting
then get the opinion of an experienced rigger.

I don't think it's really suggesting that you should be able to lift your rig right off the floor by your pin flap. Like Rob said, very few containers will pass that test and it's not really a fair one. But if you try it and the flap opens really easily then maybe there's a problem and I'd guess that's the point.

Gus

OutpatientsOnline.com

[Newbie 0]

well mine came open straightaway - i.e. the rig is on the ground and doesn't raise up off the ground even a millimetre without the main cover coming open, which is why i was concerned.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[Hooknswoop 19]

If that test was accurate then larger (heavier) rigs should have tighter main and reserve pin cover flaps than lighter rigs.

Derek

[Newbie 0]

Good point.

On that note, does anyone know if there is a more reliable means to test the "secureness" of a main/reserve pin cover tuck tab, short of taking the rig into a wind tunnel and holding it in the air flow at different configurations?

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[racer42 0]

After 300+ jumps I can still pick up my Infinity by the main pin cover.

L.A.S.T. #24
Co-Founder Biscuit Brothers Freefly Team
Electric Toaster #3
Co-Founder Team Non Sequitor
Co-Founder Team Happy Sock

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

On that note, does anyone know if there is a more reliable means to test the "secureness" of a main/reserve pin cover tuck tab, short of taking the rig into a wind tunnel and holding it in the air flow at different configurations?

I suppose the same way you can tell if a motorcycle helmet visor will stay closed, look at the design and just see how hard it is for the flap to come open. Some designs will stay closed, some won't. Some will begind to open in freefall as they get older. Start with a good design and keep an eye on it.

Derek

[Zoter 0]

I have a Teardrop SF as well.
I certainly could not pick up my rig with this flap.

That aside....(and please correct me if I am wrong) this is a very poor 'criterion' for a FF friendly rig.
If it happens frequently....yes it should be fixed....if it happens once in a while.....well

Even if the main pin flap does come undone....there should be sufficient redundency in the rest of your system ( closing loop, pin tension, no exposed bridal , tight PC in BOC etc) to not worry about the one time your flap may come undone.

On my TDSF I make sure that the bridal is tucked away tightly above and below the pin all the way to the BOC ( in the little flap).......ie nothing loose that could flap around if the flap came open and exposed the bridal to 'raw' airflow

[badlock 0]

I can easily pick up my rig by it's main flap on my Paratec Next!
See the photo (i know, the picture isn't the best, had to lift up the rig with the left arm and to photograph with the right hand)!

Don't be a Lutz!

[skydiverek 60]

NEXT main cover flap is different that Vector 3's, Wings', etc. It folds back on the top, instead of just sliding in.

[mjosparky 3]

Quote

I can easily pick up my rig by it's main flap on my Paratec Next!
See the photo (i know, the picture isn't the best, had to lift up the rig with the left arm and to photograph with the right hand)!

And people wonder why they might have a P/C hesitation.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[jmidgley 0]

On the other hand, I know that the main pin flap (on my TD SF) always stays shut, HD, sit, stand, whatever - because it's always still tucked in when I land. This is because the bridle goes in the right hand side and comes out of the right hand side - it doesn't need to flip the flap to get the pin out.

No PC hesitation here!

John

[Newbie 0]

Ahhh that's a good "test" for us TD SF users, nice one, thanks!

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[JerryBaumchen 1,077]

Sparky,

It tucks back into itself; no reason to effect the opening.

Spend some time thinking about the design then I think you'll agree.

[mjosparky 3]

Quote

Sparky,

It tucks back into itself; no reason to effect the opening.

Spend some time thinking about the design then I think you'll agree.

I understand what you are saying Jerry. But I have seen several of the new protective flaps prevent to curved pin from rolling up. Also have seen the bridle hang up on the flap. I just think we are solving one problem and potentially creating another one.

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[badlock 0]

Quote

I understand what you are saying Jerry. But I have seen several of the new protective flaps prevent to curved pin from rolling up. Also have seen the bridle hang up on the flap. I just think we are solving one problem and potentially creating another one.

Do you really think?
The Next is actually very popular in Europe, it holds TSO c23d, and I never heard from any problems.
The europeam freefly champions (I think they reached the 3rd or 5th place in the world championships) are the team "Free Flight Paratec" of germany. They jump Next rigs all the day - no problems at all.
I think the Next hasn't any issues with it's main flap.
If you open the container on the floor you can easily see, that there's no problem to roll up the pin or something other that could worry a jumper.

Don't be a Lutz!

[mjosparky 3]

Quote

Quote

I understand what you are saying Jerry. But I have seen several of the new protective flaps prevent to curved pin from rolling up. Also have seen the bridle hang up on the flap. I just think we are solving one problem and potentially creating another one.

Do you really think?
The Next is actually very popular in Europe, it holds TSO c23d, and I never heard from any problems.
The europeam freefly champions (I think they reached the 3rd or 5th place in the world championships) are the team "Free Flight Paratec" of germany. They jump Next rigs all the day - no problems at all.
I think the Next hasn't any issues with it's main flap.
If you open the container on the floor you can easily see, that there's no problem to roll up the pin or something other that could worry a jumper.

Yes I do. But that is just my opinion drawn from what I have seen. Rigs with soft housings, exposed grommets and a variety of other problems all held a TSO. Sometimes unforeseen things can develop from changes and that is why they have Service Bulletins.
I am not saying they are unsafe, just that when fixing one problem we sometimes create another.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[badlock 0]

Quote

I am not saying they are unsafe, just that when fixing one problem we sometimes create another.

Sparky

I understood your point, but what I said was that there were thousands of Next out there without any problems.
Actually, Paratec and the Next has had only a few service/safety bulletins during the years, mostly with minor issues.
If I remeber correctly the design of the main flap never was an issue and never was changed since the Next release.

Don't be a Lutz!