Talk your way out of THIS speeding ticket

[lost_n_confuzd 0]

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On a lighter note, I would guess that it's frustrating to be a cop on major roads. Everyone you drive behind slows down to the speed limit.

On 95 in Va/MD cops are like friggen' pace cars with a mob of pissed off drivers in line. As soon as he pulls off on an exit its like the start of a Nascar race. Cracks me up everytime

[riddler 0]

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The driver of the van could have (and may have been) seriously hurt because that guy "had the urge."

Sadly, many motorcycle riders feel that they're not going to do much damage to anyone or anything else if they burn in. Insurance companies agree - motorcycle insurance for collision damage to others is minimal.

But the truth is any object has the potential of killing a driver. Sometimes wheels will come off of cars, accelerate, and hit an on-coming vehicle's windshield, killing the driver of the other vehicle. Human bodies of motorcycle riders and motorcycles themselves can also kill occupants of other vehicles. It doesn't happen that often, but it's not an excuse for pretending it never happens.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

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On a lighter note, I would guess that it's frustrating to be a cop on major roads. Everyone you drive behind slows down to the speed limit.

On 95 in Va/MD cops are like friggen' pace cars with a mob of pissed off drivers in line. As soon as he pulls off on an exit its like the start of a Nascar race. Cracks me up everytime

Well, it's even funnier to watch people cruising along at 65-68 (in a 65 zone) stomp on the brakes and drop down to 60-62 when they see a cop in the median.
The truck I drive is governed at a little less than 65. So these morons go past me, then see the cop, pull in front of me and slow down.

C"MON PEOPLE!!! The speed limit is 65. The cop won't pull you over if you aren't going over it!

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[riddler 0]

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On 95 in Va/MD cops are like friggen' pace cars with a mob of pissed off drivers in line. As soon as he pulls off on an exit its like the start of a Nascar race. Cracks me up everytime

What's really funny is when the cops get annoyed and speed up to get rid of everyone. Like an eagle-ray jumping out of the water to fling off those annoying remoras.

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[Hvance 0]

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The driver of the van could have (and may have been) seriously hurt because that guy "had the urge."

Sadly, many motorcycle riders feel that they're not going to do much damage to anyone or anything else if they burn in. Insurance companies agree - motorcycle insurance for collision damage to others is minimal.

But the truth is any object has the potential of killing a driver. Sometimes wheels will come off of cars, accelerate, and hit an on-coming vehicle's windshield, killing the driver of the other vehicle. Human bodies of motorcycle riders and motorcycles themselves can also kill occupants of other vehicles. It doesn't happen that often, but it's not an excuse for pretending it never happens.

That's a terrible argument. (Not yours, theirs.) Sure, motorcycles are potentially LESS deadly than cars, if only because of decreased mass=decreased force on impact. But in no way does that mean they aren't still a projectile that can kill.

That's like saying, "Hey we stopped firing into crowds with the Deagle, because it was too dangerous. Now we just use the Glock! Safer, no?"

I wish Google Maps had an "Avoid Ghetto" routing option.

[Hvance 0]

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On 95 in Va/MD cops are like friggen' pace cars with a mob of pissed off drivers in line. As soon as he pulls off on an exit its like the start of a Nascar race. Cracks me up everytime

What's really funny is when the cops get annoyed and speed up to get rid of everyone. Like an eagle-ray jumping out of the water to fling off those annoying remoras.

Too right. Last time I drove to the dz I was on 285 outside Atlanta. If you've driven there, you know. People keep braking to 65, while traffic around the cop goes 85. Every time, he changes lanes, same thing. He finally flipped on his lights, darted to the HOV, and took off.

I wish Google Maps had an "Avoid Ghetto" routing option.

[wmw999 2,121]

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On a lighter note, I would guess that it's frustrating to be a cop on major roads. Everyone you drive behind slows down to the speed limit.

The cops I've known in the past don't find it frustrating at all most of the time -- they'd rather not have to pick up the pieces of high-speed wrecks, and if it means missing a few tickets, well, that's great.

Giving a ticket can be pretty risky for a cop -- they never really know what's going to happen.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

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That's a terrible argument. (Not yours, theirs.) Sure, motorcycles are potentially LESS deadly than cars, if only because of decreased mass=decreased force on impact. But in no way does that mean they aren't still a projectile that can kill.

That's like saying, "Hey we stopped firing into crowds with the Deagle, because it was too dangerous. Now we just use the Glock! Safer, no?"

It's not a terrible argument, it's an economic one. Running a full size pickup into a minivan does more damage than a motorcycle will.

It will cost more to fix or replace, and the insurance rates reflect it.

However, look at the rates for sport bikes as compared to a cruiser.

My 750 Vulcan was costing me $90 year (liablity and comp). The same coverage on a 600 Katana is $225. The same coverage on a 600 GSX-R, CBR-RR or R6 would have been well over $300.

Because the sporty bikes get into more accidents and cost the insurance companies more to pay out, the cost to insure is higher.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Hvance 0]

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On a lighter note, I would guess that it's frustrating to be a cop on major roads. Everyone you drive behind slows down to the speed limit.

The cops I've known in the past don't find it frustrating at all most of the time -- they'd rather not have to pick up the pieces of high-speed wrecks, and if it means missing a few tickets, well, that's great.

Giving a ticket can be pretty risky for a cop -- they never really know what's going to happen.

Wendy P.

Fair point on the risky comment. I'm more thinking of roads on which traffic never travels at the speed limit. If traffic is going, say, 80, and the speed limit is 55, it can be dangerous to drive the limit if for nothing but the fact that crazy drivers are still merging at 80. Completely wrong, I know, but true.

I wish Google Maps had an "Avoid Ghetto" routing option.

[Hvance 0]

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That's a terrible argument. (Not yours, theirs.) Sure, motorcycles are potentially LESS deadly than cars, if only because of decreased mass=decreased force on impact. But in no way does that mean they aren't still a projectile that can kill.

That's like saying, "Hey we stopped firing into crowds with the Deagle, because it was too dangerous. Now we just use the Glock! Safer, no?"

It's not a terrible argument, it's an economic one. Running a full size pickup into a minivan does more damage than a motorcycle will.

It will cost more to fix or replace, and the insurance rates reflect it.

However, look at the rates for sport bikes as compared to a cruiser.

My 750 Vulcan was costing me $90 year (liablity and comp). The same coverage on a 600 Katana is $225. The same coverage on a 600 GSX-R, CBR-RR or R6 would have been well over $300.

Because the sporty bikes get into more accidents and cost the insurance companies more to pay out, the cost to insure is higher.

My mistake, I didn't clarify. I was responding to the thought of the hypothetical motorcyclist. See the post I responded to. Not commenting on the insurance bit; that's pure risk analysis.

I wish Google Maps had an "Avoid Ghetto" routing option.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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if traffic is going, say, 80, and the speed limit is 55, it can be dangerous to drive the limit if for nothing but the fact that crazy drivers are still merging at 80. Completely wrong, I know, but true.

Speed by itself is not the most dangerous aspect of driving. The most dangerous aspect of speed is when different drivers are going vastly different speeds. You and I can be driving down the highway close to each other at a slow speed or at a very fast speed and be relatively safe. But throw in a vehicle going much faster or much slower than ourselves and someone needs to react. If they react wrong, it could be game over.

This is only my opinion, but when merging onto a highway I believe it is best to be going slightly faster (but not too fast) than the other traffic. This way you can sequence yourself into the merge lane and then slow down to the same speed the other vehicles are going. But if you are going too slow, the vehicle behind you must slow down or change lanes and voila ... all it takes is to have someone not paying attention to the road and it could be the end for one or more people.

Speed by itself is not the most dangerous part of driving. Speed needs to be respected, but not feared. But as I said, if someone wants to go really fast in their vehicle ... come join us at the race tracks. You don't have to be a formal race car driver to do it, and you might just learn a thing or two about car/bike control. The other night I got to drive on a really wet track for the first time and OMG ... you learn twice as much about car control in half the time.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Hvance 0]

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Speed by itself is not the most dangerous part of driving.

Of course not. It's the sudden deceleration that bites you.

I wish Google Maps had an "Avoid Ghetto" routing option.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

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Speed by itself is not the most dangerous aspect of driving. The most dangerous aspect of speed is when different drivers are going vastly different speeds. You and I can be driving down the highway close to each other at a slow speed or at a very fast speed and be relatively safe. But throw in a vehicle going much faster or much slower than ourselves and someone needs to react. If they react wrong, it could be game over.

This is only my opinion, but when merging onto a highway I believe it is best to be going slightly faster (but not too fast) than the other traffic. This way you can sequence yourself into the merge lane and then slow down to the same speed the other vehicles are going. But if you are going too slow, the vehicle behind you must slow down or change lanes and voila ... all it takes is to have someone not paying attention to the road and it could be the end for one or more people.

Speed by itself is not the most dangerous part of driving. Speed needs to be respected, but not feared. But as I said, if someone wants to go really fast in their vehicle ... come join us at the race tracks. You don't have to be a formal race car driver to do it, and you might just learn a thing or two about car/bike control. The other night I got to drive on a really wet track for the first time and OMG ... you learn twice as much about car control in half the time.

I wish you could teach everyone else that merging technique!

There are an amazing number of idiots who:

don't check traffic until the very last second.

run right alongside me, expecting me to move over when I have traffic keeping me in the right lane.

run half a length in front of me until the end of the merge lane, then slam on the brakes, when a slight application of the throttle would have easily gotten them in front of me.

flat out don't understand the concept of "sharing the road".

I drive for a living and try very hard to be polite and respectful of all other drivers out there, but sometimes I really, really wish that I could squash one or two of the worst one (and with truck that weighs somewhere around 70,000# depending on the load it would be really, really easy).

I sometimes say "God must love stupid people and bad drivers. Because he sure made a lot of them"

And if you really want to learn "slippery" technique, try a skid pad. For real fun, try a Semi truck on a skid pad. It was amazing to take a real, full sized semi out and do doughnuts and jackknifes and skid recoveries with it.
Off the public roads, under tightly controlled circumstances.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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And if you really want to learn "slippery" technique, try a skid pad. For real fun, try a Semi truck on a skid pad. It was amazing to take a real, full sized semi out and do doughnuts and jackknifes and skid recoveries with it.

Sounds like fun. Sign me up.

I have a lot of respect for professional big rig drivers. A few years ago when I moved from Colorado back to Canada, I rented a Ryder Truck + a car trailer to tow my jeep back. Now granted I am still not as big as the 18 wheelers, but the average joe driving out there has no concept whatsoever in the additional weight trucks have and how it effects stopping distances. I tell you driving that moving truck and towing a trailer through the Seattle area was interesting with cars cutting in front of me. Lucky for them and myself I did not have to brake hard, because if I did I don't think I could have stopped. Ever since that experience, I think twice about cutting in front of a large transport truck. If there is a chance we may need to stop all of a sudden, I just won't change lanes. Being in that other lane is not worth the risk of eating the truck's bumper and all the other things that go with such an accident.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

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And if you really want to learn "slippery" technique, try a skid pad. For real fun, try a Semi truck on a skid pad. It was amazing to take a real, full sized semi out and do doughnuts and jackknifes and skid recoveries with it.

Sounds like fun. Sign me up.

HERE you go. This is where I got my CDL, and part of that was the WDDC course.
Watch the video, it shows some of the stuff we did, only with an ex-cop car, not a truck.

However, a few years back, the local Porsche dealer brought up some of the Porsche instructors from down south (Alabama maybe?) where they have the factory sponsored classes and also rented that skidpad. We got to learn about how traction control and ABS function, what they can and cannot do (as one of the instructors said: "You can't fix stupid"), and had a lot of fun.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[BillyVance 34]

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However, a few years back, the local Porsche dealer brought up some of the Porsche instructors from down south (Alabama maybe?) where they have the factory sponsored classes and also rented that skidpad. We got to learn about how traction control and ABS function, what they can and cannot do (as one of the instructors said: "You can't fix stupid"), and had a lot of fun.

I believe that would be from the Barber Motorsports Speedway. It's a world-class road track just outside Birmingham, AL. and they regularly have driving sessions for Porsches.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[LongWayToFall 0]

What, something like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsNulEYQutI

[Herky 0]

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Again, there are roads out there that people know well, and can safely drive at very high speeds. You will never be able to completely eliminate all risk, but it is like that at a track too. I am not saying that some teenager should buy the next greatest supercar and see how fast they can go right off the lot.

There is a long straight stretch of road near me, if I am out at midnight, I can see headlights 8 miles away, easily, cause it's flat entire way. 55mph zone, I've had it to 157mph and even above several times. I know every single bump in the road, I know how my car reacts to those bumps. I know where every sign, every mailbox, every rut in the shoulder is. If someone is coming I don't do it. I have a car, and tires rated for those speeds. It is a rural road, all the farms houses have long drives set way back from highway. I am at no risk to anyone but myself.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

No risk of fairly large animals being on the road? Where do you live? Can I come over? I want to know just how fast my car will go. That wasn't me who said that. It was the devil who made me say it. LOL

BTW ... I was at the track again this afternoon and I got to drive in some more wet weather. OMG ... I love it. What a blast. You have to dial it back a bit and not drive as hard as you would on a dry track, but wow you can learn so much about what your car is doing when it is wet.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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So, take a look at this video and let me know what you think. Fast forward to 4:00. Also note driving segment at 6:30.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDV9v_yMQA4

So, being legal, everyone is PERFECTLY fine with driving this speed, I am sure. Just because it is legal, doesn't make it safe, and just because it is illegal, doesn't make it unsafe.

First off, I have no idea where it was filmed. But, for the sake of argument, let's say it was filmed where driving at those speeds is legal.
Since high speed driving is legal on select public roads around the globe, people who drive on those roads KNOW that there will be cars traveling at high rates of speed. They expect it and adjust their driving habits accordingly.
Where there are set speed limits, such as in the US, people who drive on those roads, walk along those roads, cross those roads, etc. expect the vehicles on them to be traveling somewhere around the speed limit, not more than double.
All else being equal driving at high speed on a barren section of road is more dangerous than driving at a low speed regardless of legallity.
Driving at high spedd on a race track where everyone knows there are cars going fast and everyone is going the same direction (hopefully!) and the course is secured by track personel before any car is allowed on it is far safer than driving the same speeds on a section of road you think is clear because you just made a sweep of it.
Driving more than double the speed limit isn't unsafe because it is illegal...it is illegal because it is unsafe.
The world is full of wanna-be race car drivers who think their skills are better than anyone elses. Well, I got news for them...their driving skills actually suck. I've seen literally hundreds of hot-shots show up at track days while i was testing and learned early on to avoid them like the plague. They miss shifts, spin, cut thu the grass, throw dirt and crap up onto the racing surface, tear up their car and end up getting lapped by a skilled driver in a stock Civic.
Now, what is safer? Having them do that on a secure race track, or out on a public highway?

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[theonlyski 3]

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Again, there are roads out there that people know well, and can safely drive at very high speeds. You will never be able to completely eliminate all risk, but it is like that at a track too. I am not saying that some teenager should buy the next greatest supercar and see how fast they can go right off the lot.

There is a long straight stretch of road near me, if I am out at midnight, I can see headlights 8 miles away, easily, cause it's flat entire way. 55mph zone, I've had it to 157mph and even above several times. I know every single bump in the road, I know how my car reacts to those bumps. I know where every sign, every mailbox, every rut in the shoulder is. If someone is coming I don't do it. I have a car, and tires rated for those speeds. It is a rural road, all the farms houses have long drives set way back from highway. I am at no risk to anyone but myself.

Thats exactly why when I pull over on the side of a freeway in the middle of nowhere, I turn the 4 ways on (with driving lights already on) and put a reflective belt on.

At those speeds, you are going (if my math memory serves me) about 235 feet per second, with my reflective belt alone, (reflects light up to 1000 feet) you would see me ~4.25 seconds before you were passing me.

IIRC, the reaction time from your eye seeing, and your brain saying 'oh shit', to you moving your foot is ~1.5 seconds, then you gotta slow that mass down, which would take way more than the other 2.75 seconds.

Not trying to be a buzzkill or anything, but think of the old lady that has a blown tire in the middle of the night, or one whos engine is dead and the battery wont power the lights.

But damn, 8 miles in just under 3 minutes would make my trip home alot quicker.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[billvon 2,400]

>I am at no risk to anyone but myself.

That's as accurate as saying a drunk driver is of no risk to anyone but himself (if he's as careful as you, of course.)

[Nataly 38]

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What, something like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsNulEYQutI

That video made me sick to my stomach.. As did the one of the bikers..

Saying that speeding is safe is as accurate as saying skydiving is safe. It isn't. You can *reduce* the risks, but it is NOT safe. A public road is not a controlled environment and innocent people are at risk. To me, this is the main difference between doing stupid speeds on a track and doing the same on public roads.

And for the record, my objection to extreme speeding (even on well-known stretches of quiet roads) is that for the sake of your fun you are endangering the lives of others. I don't mean you specifically, but the person speeding.

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[LongWayToFall 0]

Not that video, but the one I posted before, is on a completely legal stretch of road. Still very very dangerous. I was trying to show that legality has nothing to do with safety.
How do you define controlled environment? As I stated before, there are stretches of road where speeding could be very safe, safer than some sanctioned events even. It is up to the driver or rider to make sure that there isn't a danger to other people.

[Nataly 38]

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Not that video, but the one I posted before, is on a completely legal stretch of road. Still very very dangerous. I was trying to show that legality has nothing to do with safety.
How do you define controlled environment? As I stated before, there are stretches of road where speeding could be very safe, safer than some sanctioned events even. It is up to the driver or rider to make sure that there isn't a danger to other people.

I again maintain that speeding is NOT safe. Yes, you can *reduce* risks, but the fact remains that on a public road, the risks are borne by not just the individual speeding, but innocent other drivers / pedestrians as well.

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss