Question for auto mechanics

[JohnRich 4]

I have an '01 Chevy Blazer, and I'm getting intermittent dual warning lights: both the "Brakes" and "ABS" lights. According to my owner's manual, this just means the anti-lock brakes aren't working, i.e. the pulsating action which prevents wheel lock-up and skids. The brakes themselves are still working just fine - like a car from the 70's before ABS systems were invented and installed on every vehicle. The lights come on for a while, then go back off. They're unpredictable. It's registering codes in the computer for this event, which show up when checked.

The repair is a $1,200 job. I'm happy using my old fashioned brakes and pumping the pedal myself like I was taught to do back in the 60's, before everyone became dependent upon computers to drive properly for them.

Now for the question. My annual state inspection is due next month. Will the presence of those codes on the computer cause my vehicle to fail the inspection? This is Texas, but curious what other states do also.

[AggieDave 6]

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My annual state inspection is due next month. Will the presence of those codes on the computer cause my vehicle to fail the inspection?

Yes, your truck will fail inspection.

The reason is that the brake system is not operating in the manner it was designed. If your car is throwing codes and lighting up warnings on the dash, it is not supposed to pass.

Obviously I'm a car guy and I know my way around what matters and what doesn't, but the MVI program is to create a situation in which vehicles are checked every year to make sure their safety systems operate correctly. Many cops are car guys and the sticker on the windshield quickly identifies a vehicle that didn't pass. Of course that is in a perfect world in which people kept their stickers up to date and inspection stations didn't pass illegal/unsafe equipment on vehicles.

That's why the inspection costs a state mandated amount and is under $15 in non-emissions counties.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[oldwomanc6 38]

Ok, I'm going to throw a lot out here which may or may not have anything to do with the issue.

Do you know that the warning light is only the ABS? Not something that is telling you that your brakes may or not work? Now or in the near future?

The state inspection--is it a safety inspection or an emissions inspection? Oddly enough, in MD, where they only check for emissions, if you blow darn near any code (they just plug their diagnostic do-dah), you can't pass. Regardless of whether it is an emission issue. They don't actually check for what's actually being emitted.

You may be able to apply for a waiver if reparing it is over a certain dollar amount.

Or you may be old enough to apply for a waiver. (old everywhere seems to be getting younger)

Or you may just want to fix it.

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[MattyB 0]

What state do you live in? In Cali, they only check powertrain codes on inspection.

My limited knowledge of other states inspection reg's may have other rules. Typically CURRENT codes are what would fail you. HISTORY codes stay around for 100 ignition cycles and are purged if the failure doesnt occur again.

ABS faults will ALWAYS turn on a light so if the light isnt lit when you go in for inspection you should pass.

With that out of the way, you need to get it checked out. You could have an intermittent yet major issue occuring in your ABS system that could be trouble if you actually need it.

EDIT read through the part about it costing 1200. Im assuming they want to charge for an EBCM? If so its an easy fix if you know how to bleed the brakes of a car.
Think if you decided to jump with an AAD that was acting up. You could jump 1000x and not need it but if you knew it was problematic would you want to take a chance it was going to be an issue on the next jump?

It will not keep you from stopping the car, the truck just wont use all the safety features on board to keep you safe.

edit: I own www.calrewire.com and all I do is work on vehicle electrical systems. I wanted to post my shops site because I know you arent in my state (not trolling for customers) but just wanted to give credentials.

If you have access to a scanner that can pull "C" codes I can probably help you out with figureing it out if you are mechanically inclined.

[Jumpdude 0]

Tennessee won't pass it.
I can tell you that most likely, you have a bad wheel speed sensor. The part shouldn't cost much over $100-$150 or so. And the Labor should be around $100 as well. (4 wheel drive may effect the overall cost)
On a lot of vehicles, the Red "Brake" light is lit when the Yellow "ABS" light is on, so if you fix the problem, quite often, you will fix the other automatically.

If a shop is trying to charge you $1200, they are full of shit! That's more than replacing the whole system!

Hope that helps.

[piisfish 135]

is it possible that the ABS sensors are dirty/muddy ? sometimes just cleaning everything helps a lot

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[theonlyski 3]

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Tennessee won't pass it.
I can tell you that most likely, you have a bad wheel speed sensor. The part shouldn't cost much over $100-$150 or so. And the Labor should be around $100 as well. (4 wheel drive may effect the overall cost)
On a lot of vehicles, the Red "Brake" light is lit when the Yellow "ABS" light is on, so if you fix the problem, quite often, you will fix the other automatically.

If a shop is trying to charge you $1200, they are full of shit! That's more than replacing the whole system!

Hope that helps.

+1

I'd put money on it being a bad sensor or a shorted wire going to the sensors. See if you can find out if the code says which sensor is acting up and check the wiring. Shorted wiring can be a pain in the ass to find/fix though.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[Jumpdude 0]

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is it possible that the ABS sensors are dirty/muddy ? sometimes just cleaning everything helps a lot

Probably not, they are normally sealed units

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

What exactly is the repair that costs $1200? Have you had it looked at yet? Do you know what's wrong?

If so, skip this paragraph and go to the next.
I'm going to agree with those that said "Check the sensor." They can go bad, they can get knocked out of position, a wire can break. The most common (by a wide margin) reason I see an "ABS" light on the big truck is a sensor not registering properly.

Are you sure that it is only going to affect the ABS portion, not the rest of the brake system?
In a lot of ways, the brake system is interconnected. It's very, very possible that what is causing the lights will cause your brakes to not work properly (if at all) under certain circumstances. Remember, the ABS releases the brakes and reapplies them to stop wheel lockup. What if it decides to release them and then doesn't reapply them?

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[JohnRich 4]

Thanks to everyone for all the good advice.

I looked up the code at one point, and researched that on the internet. It was a very common problem for high-mileage vehicles. A lot of the diagnostics were long and complicated, and I suspect most shops wouldn't bother. It's just easier to replace the whole unit and charge $1200. That quote was for the ABS unit, about the size of a cigar box, with a small pump attached to it, and hydraulic lines leading to each wheel. I thought about replacing it myself, but not sure if I want to mess with it. I know how to bleed the air out of old-fashioned brakes, but wouldn't know how to do it with this ABS unit. It sounds like I want to insist that my mechanic check the sensors first.

To answer some questions... At first the lights freaked me out and I immediately pulled over. I had my brakes fail once on another car, and I don't want to experience that again. I pulled out the owner's manual, and it assured me that my brakes would still work, just not ABS. I took it to the shop, and they told me the same thing. Okay, I can live with that for a while. But if it won't pass inspection as-is, now I've either got to pay to fix it to get the inspection sticker, or drive without an inspection sticker.

The cited repair cost is $1166 for the ABS control module, and $70 installation labor, Firestone description code 88982299. The diagnostic trouble code is C0265. When I google that I get a LOT of hits for ABCM module replacements.

How much is a ticket for an expired inspection sticker? Got to be a lot cheaper than the $1200 repair cost. (Just kidding!)

[AggieDave 6]

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How much is a ticket for an expired inspection sticker? Got to be a lot cheaper than the $1200 repair cost. (Just kidding!)

They average around $150 in Texas with court costs. Some places lower, some places higher. Contrary to what many believe, just because you receive a citation for an expired MVI it does not preclude you from receiving more. There is no magic number or "get out of jail free card."

Oh and the sticker design changes every year, so it is super easy to see. Regardless, I know some motor cops who can read the MVI and registration dates on stickers coming at them with both vehicles closing at 60mph.

If you want a shock, look up the violation on tampering with the MVI sticker, it's not a ticket offense!

Anyways, good luck, you've had that truck just about as long as you had your previous Racer.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[theonlyski 3]

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How much is a ticket for an expired inspection sticker? Got to be a lot cheaper than the $1200 repair cost. (Just kidding!)

They average around $150 in Texas with court costs. Some places lower, some places higher. Contrary to what many believe, just because you receive a citation for an expired MVI it does not preclude you from receiving more. There is no magic number or "get out of jail free card."

Oh and the sticker design changes every year, so it is super easy to see. Regardless, I know some motor cops who can read the MVI and registration dates on stickers coming at them with both vehicles closing at 60mph.

If you want a shock, look up the violation on tampering with the MVI sticker, it's not a ticket offense!

Anyways, good luck, you've had that truck just about as long as you had your previous Racer.

He could always 'buy' a MVI for his truck.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[AggieDave 6]

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He could always 'buy' a MVI for his truck.

Sure, even though the MVI stickers are serialized and searchable...

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[theonlyski 3]

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He could always 'buy' a MVI for his truck.

Sure, even though the MVI stickers are serialized and searchable...

And you check them all, every time?


FWIW, I only failed the test once, it was right after I did some work on the truck that warranted disconnecting the battery. I hooked it back up and went to go get tested, failed.

Drove the truck around for a day, went back and passed.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[kallend 1,623]

Sell it in Illinois. No inspections needed here.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[JohnRich 4]

The plot thickens, as they say. Just had the truck in the shop for a routine oil change, and I asked the service advisor this question about the ABS warning light and the state inspection. He said that the ABS system is not part of the state inspection, and the warning light will NOT fail you for the inspection. And that contradicts what some others have said. So I'm not sure who to believe, but I know I'll go to this guy when I get my state inspection next month, because he indicates I'll pass.

Attached: the warning lights.

[theonlyski 3]

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The plot thickens, as they say. Just had the truck in the shop for a routine oil change, and I asked the service advisor this question about the ABS warning light and the state inspection. He said that the ABS system is not part of the state inspection, and the warning light will NOT fail you for the inspection. And that contradicts what some others have said. So I'm not sure who to believe, but I know I'll go to this guy when I get my state inspection next month, because he indicates I'll pass.

Attached: the warning lights.

Why is your parking brake engaged at 36mph?

Also, not the best idea to take pictures while driving. That shit is dangerous!

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[AggieDave 6]

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The plot thickens, as they say. Just had the truck in the shop for a routine oil change, and I asked the service advisor this question about the ABS warning light and the state inspection. He said that the ABS system is not part of the state inspection, and the warning light will NOT fail you for the inspection. And that contradicts what some others have said. So I'm not sure who to believe, but I know I'll go to this guy when I get my state inspection next month, because he indicates I'll pass.

Attached: the warning lights.

Heh, go to that guy then!

You have also found a problem with the inspection program, each inspector seems to have their own ideas about what is and isn't allowed, even though it is spelled out clearly in their manual.

The fun one are all the tinted lighting equipment, they're against state law and their against the federal statute for required lighting on vehicles (never mind that it is dangerous), but inspection stations still pass them for a variety of made up reasons.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[theonlyski 3]

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The fun one are all the tinted lighting equipment, they're against state law and their against the federal statute for required lighting on vehicles (never mind that it is dangerous), but inspection stations still pass them for a variety of made up reasons.

Just curious, isn't it illegal to put those blue/purple tinted headlights in the cars and even straight up blue blinkers up front?

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[AggieDave 6]

Here's the why:

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Sec. 547.402. OPERATION AND MAINTENANCE OF BRAKES.

(a) Required brakes shall operate on each wheel of a vehicle except:

(1) special mobile equipment;

(2) a vehicle that is towed as a commodity when at least one set of the towed vehicle's wheels is on the roadway, if the combination of vehicles complies with the performance requirements of this chapter; and

(3) a trailer, semitrailer, or pole trailer with a gross weight heavier than 4,500 pounds but not heavier than 15,000 pounds drawn at a speed of more than 30 miles per hour, if the brakes operate on both wheels of the rear axle.

(b) A truck or truck-tractor that has at least three axles is not required to have brakes on the front wheels, but must have brakes that:

(1) operate on the wheels of one steerable axle if the vehicle is equipped with at least two steerable axles; and

(2) comply with the performance requirements of this chapter.

(c) A trailer or semitrailer that has a gross weight of 15,000 pounds or less may use surge or inertia brake systems to satisfy the requirements of Subsection (a).

(d) Brakes shall be maintained in good working order and adjusted to operate on wheels on each side of the vehicle as equally as practicable.

Check with your lawyer for all the references to the administration code (that governs inspections) and case law surrounding this statute, but basically if a braking system is on the warning bars (metal squeal) or throwing a code, then it isn't considered to be in "good working order."

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[MattyB 0]

Just as I thought, the EBCM is the ELECTRONIC BRAKE CONTROL MODULE. If you look under the hood youll see a big aluminum block with all the brake lines going to it.

The computer portion is integrated and as such the cost.

Depending if it has traction control or not you are looking at ~$1000 brand new retail for the module and 1.5 hours labor. 1200 sounds fair assumming they are charging somewhere around 80 per hour.

if you go to www.car-part.com this will give you a searchable database of all auto recyclers (wrecking yards) and you can search for the part you need and select by cost or distance from you.

You may ask the shop if they would install a used one. You wont get a warranty but if you cant do it yourself and they are willing to swap it in, normal used price in the midwest looks to be about $350 for the part. Look up Antilock Brake pump.

I really hope that helps

[JohnRich 4]

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Why is your parking brake engaged at 36mph?

Also, not the best idea to take pictures while driving. That shit is dangerous!

So that's what was going on - I thought the acceleration felt a little sluggish!

Heck, one photo at 35 mph ain't nothing compared to texting at 60.

MattyB: Good tip - thank you, I'll keep that one in mind.

[BIGUN 1,053]

John, Does this help? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFXUfagp5RI

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[Andy9o8 0]

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I'm not sure who to believe, but I know I'll go to this guy when I get my state inspection next month, because he indicates I'll pass.

See? The moral of this story: don't think like a mechanic, think like a lawyer!

[JohnRich 4]

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John, Does this help? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFXUfagp5RI

Wow, something useful on Youtube. Thanks Bigun. I was thinking that the top part was part of the same unit as all that hydraulic stuff on the bottom half, and I didn't want to mess with the hydraulics. This video shows that it's a really easy part swap.

I need new wheel hubs on this vehicle too, and that's where the sensors are for the ABS, which could be giving bad readings causing the warning lights. This truck has 186,000 miles on it. I'll be replacing the wheel hubs next month, and hopefully that will eliminate the warning lights. If not, now I know that the ABCM module is an easy replacement that I can do myself.