chopchop 0 #26 October 12, 2004 QuoteNo one in this business makes mistakes or sends out faulty equipment intentionally! Tim T. Team Paraclete I agree with you Tim. No one intentionally makes a mistake or a faulty product. However, on occasion, pretty much everyone does. The difference between a manufacturer like SunPath and a manufacturer that I would deal with more than once is whether they stand behind their product when a mistake is made... As I said, everyone makes mistakes. As the manufacturer, it is their job to own up to it and fix it. In my limited time in skydiving, only 4 years, I have not been witness to them doing that.. quite the opposite actually.. chopchop gotta go... Plaything needs a spanking.. Lotsa Pictures Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mouth 0 #27 October 12, 2004 QuoteLisa will receive the same great customer service as she would receive from any other mfr EVERYONE and I mean even the receptionist has been great at Sunpath. Regardless of WHO caused the problem they have fixed my PC and bridle and are shipping it to me tomorrow so hopefully I'll get to jump this w/e. When I asked how much it was going to cost me they said NOTHING. On top of this they replaced my beautiful purple diamondback cutaway handle that I was so mad about loosing. I never asked them to take the blame nor did I ask anyone else. I know I f*cked up myself by not returning it to the when I first noticed the threads and maybe I wouldn't have had this problem. That said it is my responsibility to check all this stuff. My point in telling anyone about this was so that people could make an effort to CHECK their gear more carefully. Not to test Sunpath's customer service. Yeah, this could have turned out really bad in like 9 more seconds but thankfully it didn't and hopefully I and some of you learned a lesson. Well, let's just not even think about that since I've done way more than my share of thinking about that this past week. Thank you Sunpath for your prompt attention to this. I appreciate your turning things around so fast for me. Chopchop...I'm sorry if you have a bad opinion of Sunpath, but please take it up with them personally as nothing we can say or do will help solve your problem. Good luck. Remember we all have good and bad days. Me, them and even you. That said nobody is ever going to be perfect all of the time. I think ALL of the gear dealers I've ever been in contact with do a great job making sure we are all as safe as possible. Yeah, things may happen but I don't think any of them ever happen intentionally. I was fully prepared to pay whatever it took to get my stuff back in working order because it was MY STUFF. MY RESPONSIBILITY. -- Hot Mama At least you know where you stand even if it is in a pile of shit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mouth 0 #28 October 12, 2004 QuoteHow does that make it the riggers fault? I don't believe I have EVER said it was anyone's fault but my own for not catching it. If I had done a better job inspecting MY rig then maybe this wouldn't have happened. Also, if I had returned the part to Sunpath when I first noticed a problem this most likely wouldn't have happened. Notice it was MY FAULT -- Hot Mama At least you know where you stand even if it is in a pile of shit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chopchop 0 #29 October 12, 2004 oops.. sorry, Lisa.. I misread your post.. I thought you were saying they were not taking any responsibility.. Glad to hear they are.. really I am.. it incensed me that they were doing it again.. happy to hear they are not.. Hell.. I'll even take back some of the things I said about them.. chopchop gotta go... Plaything needs a spanking.. Lotsa Pictures Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #30 October 12, 2004 My comment was directed at Tim, not you Lisa, it was also not meant in a harsh manner, it was just a statement of my belief. I had no doubt they would replace the pilot chute and bridle but I believe the statement it was partially the riggers fault is incorrect. The pin was flawed. I can say that unless there was obvious wear, that more than likely they would have re-bartacked the pin attachment and sent it back to you. That is nothing really more than your current rigger did. It's fairly common for those threads to come loose. I've made that exact repare many times. It's VERY uncommon for pins to have burs in that location and cause the attachment to break. I truly believe they would have missed it unless it was obvious. How many jumps between the time you noticed the bartack coming undone until it was sewn down again? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mouth 0 #31 October 12, 2004 Probably about 40-50 jumps between when I first noticed the threads and when it failed. I really didn't think you were fussing at me but I wanted to make it clear that I was at fault here for not checking my stuff more carefully and sending it back due to a problem. Trust me I've beat myself up over this for over a week. -- Hot Mama At least you know where you stand even if it is in a pile of shit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
strop45 0 #32 November 7, 2006 QuoteAnother post in incidents relates how a burr on a main closing pin cut through the bridle Recently I noticed that my bridle was frayed around the closing pin. Closer examination revealed that only about half of the bridle material was intact and that one third of the inside edge of the closing pin (center of the doughnut) was razor sharp. It appeared to me that the material had fractured during polishing leaving the knife-like edge. About ten to twenty small low pressure movements were all that were needed to cut completely through the bridle. My rig is about four months old and had 40 or so jumps on it when I noticed the problem. Main lesson for me was that detailed gear inspections can find problems before they become malfunctions.The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." -- Albert Einstein Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
usskydiver 0 #33 November 8, 2006 Wayne, On the surface it appears there is a sharp edge that caused the bridle failure. OK, here's the tough part...do you pack or hire a packer? I love the people who pack for me but don't hire "just anyone" as I jump a POP which some consider outdated but I love...minus 1 reserve deployment (my fault)... The question goes back to "responsibility" in a court of law...yours, the packer, the rigger.... As the equipment owner, I feel the responsibilty is mine...but I am a Master Rigger...the ethical question becomes...who do you trust?...yourself?, your packer?, your rigger? My thoughts...You own and trust your life to your rig, your packer (assuming you use one) packs it, your rigger, inspects and repacks what you provide (and pay) for what he/she does for you.... IMO it's about trust in a couple of things...how much YOU know your gear and how much you trust someone to tell you what is wrong with the gear that is saving you life on every jump. I welcome the feedback.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jheadley 0 #34 November 8, 2006 QuoteI suspend the parachute and go through as if it were a reserve. Like you stated, if the main is not there...oh, well! If, the owner wants me to re-pack the main, yes, I charge 5-bucks. Hope, this helps. Chuck Aren't the risers and d-bag and pilot chute technically part of the container, and therefore have to be inspected and deemed airworthy like the rest of the container? I'm not a rigger (but plan to go to dewolfe's course in january) but I know if I were doing an I&R, I'd want to see everything since there a lot of people out there who have really worn out risers (especially the white loop), dbags, bridles, and pilot chutes. Also the rig owner may not even connect the risers back correctly, I've caught that twice by people who I thought would have known better. I'd rather do it myself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #35 November 8, 2006 Call me a greedy, lazy, money-grubbing, etc. ... rigger but I only inspect mains if the customer is willing to pay me an extra $30. On the other hand, my greediness drives me to inspect high-wear components on mains, in hopes that I will find a flaw that will result in a few extra dollars of income. For example: I always take a quick look over the main pilot chute, bridle, d-bag and risers. Those components usually wear out long before the fabric or lines. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jheadley 0 #36 November 8, 2006 I know the main parachute is not certified and therefore doesn't need to be inspected (I wouldn't do it either unless specifically asked) but I just thought that the risers, d-bag, and pilot chute were technically a part of the container, and would need to be inspected like the rest of the container. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
recovercrachead 0 #37 November 8, 2006 I Know Two Old Time Jumpers 4000+ jumps/25 years have totals when the pin disconnected from the bridleTrack high, Pull LOW!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,048 #38 November 8, 2006 Hi jheadley, Quote the risers, d-bag, and pilot chute were technically a part of the container, 'They' are a part of the main container; oh, OK, the risers could be called part of the harness but why split hairs. The certificated stuff is the harness (and usually not to include any pads), the reserve container, the reserve pilot chute, the reserve d-bag, and the reserve ripcord. Did I miss anything? HTH, Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jheadley 0 #39 November 9, 2006 Ahh, ok, thanks. So on inspection, if you found a serious problem on a part of the container that was not certified (like the loop on the riser hanging by a few threads), there's technically nothing you could do about it other than suggest to the owner to have it replaced? One rigger I saw with the above scenario actually just cut what was left of the loop, so the rig owner couldn't jump it at all until he got new risers. That raises some ethical questions though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #40 November 9, 2006 Quote there's technically nothing you could do about it other than suggest to the owner to have it replaced? If it is the Rigger in Charge at the DZ, I would hope that they ground the rig."The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 4 #41 November 10, 2006 Any DZ I have been a regular at would have dealt with this appropriately. Either the DZO or the Pilot would have heeded my suggestion that the rig presented a hazard... I strongly suspect that the survival instincts of pilots and DZO's everywhere would be the same. Certification of the rig is not the issue, safety is. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Liemberg 0 #42 November 10, 2006 Quotea part of the container that was not certified (like the loop on the riser hanging by a few threads) That's why in several countries risers count as part of the container and "the non certified main parachute" starts at the connector links and ends again at the bridle attachment ... If nothing else, it also prevents swopping mains until they end up with reversed mini-risers on rigs that are not suited for those. Combined with a bag lock / low drag malfunction and a slight head down attitude - often associated with high speed emergency procedures - this has proven that it can be lethal. Of course, it is more work swopping canopies at the connector links and like others "I have committed sins in the eyes of the Lord" , but if everybody at least had someone (who knows what he's looking for) look at it when "swopping at the risers", "unwanted excitement" can be prevented... Quoteactually just cut what was left of the loop, so the rig owner couldn't jump it at all until he got new risers. That raises some ethical questions though. WANTED excitement can be highly entertaining "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #43 November 10, 2006 i think sunpath doesn't want to admit fault because of legal shit - i had a problem with my new katana that wouldn't flare on landing - i sent it back they said they saw nothing wrong on the test jumps but put a new set of lines on it and sent it back no charge and it landed great - as long as they fix the problem and look out for this in the future i think that is all you can expect Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
