AFF level D, learn arm turns and spins out

[superplumber 0]

Hi everyone, AFF rookie student here. Recently got stuck on Level D: turning.

Everything is fine in the beginning: exit count, relax, get stable, COA, the instructor gave the turn signal. Dropped left arm, begin left turn. Then things became out of control when trying to stop the turn. Pushed down right arm a little bit, not stopping. Push down more, boom, left turn faster. JM helped to stop the spin but that basically is the pull altitude.

After landed, JM said I didn't drop my right arm to counter the left turn. Instead I was doing the chicken wing thing: Right arm was moving in the direction of ribs instead being pushed down. The spine was all twisted to the right side, and that pushed my hip not level anymore. And then legs become asymmetry, which resulted a faster left spin.

However, I swear I felt like the arm was being pushed down really hard (clearly that's only the tension in the lower back). Also, ground training on the creeper is fine, the upper body will become the slope shape without spine twisted. So I'm guessing that on the ground, gravity is pulling the arm downward and the creeper keeps the hip level and spine straight. However, in the sky there are too much pressure upward coming from the 120 mph wind. And the pressure on the hip from the air is way mush smaller than that coming from the wooden creeper. That may be the reason when JM said my arm was not moving downward, although I felt like all my core muscle has been engaged to push down that arm?

Am I fighting the wind? How to deform the arms and chest like a wing when there is little leverages on the lower part of body? Which is more reasonable: pressing the whole arm using core muscle, or tilting elbow using shoulder muscle?

Please share some thoughts. Thanks in advance.

[Kiwiskydiving 0]

Visiting the tunnel with a qualified AFF Instructor helps a lot.

My skydiving blog: www.kiwiskydiving.com /// youtube channel: kiwiskydiving

[Trafficdiver 8]

I am not an instructor and I have no idea what I'm doing. That being said, when I was on cat c2 I could not stop turning either. My body was actually not straight, I was leaning left with my upper body. That makes it tough to stop the turn or go right. I found this out by going to the tunnel and having them video tape me and working out my problems.

So basically this is a long winded way of me agreeing with the first post. You can figure out in the air what is wrong and how to fix it, but you can do it much faster in the tunnel. This goes for every level of flying.

[ufk22 32]

You're not the first one to have this issue, won't be the last.
Quit asking for advice on the net, listen to your instructor, practice, practice practice.
Muscle memory.
You had one failed attempt at turns.
One.
Just keep at it.

This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

[wan2doit 6]

More long winded support of 1st response. :)

15 minutes in tunnel with a tunnel Coach (caution tunnel instructors are not always Coaches - there can be a difference) or an AFF coach - problem very likely can be solved.

[Kiwiskydiving 0]

You have 1200 jumps and 40 tunnel hours and "you know nothing"? C'mon man where did your skydiver ego go

My skydiving blog: www.kiwiskydiving.com /// youtube channel: kiwiskydiving

[Trafficdiver 8]

Kiwiskydiving

You have 1200 jumps and 40 tunnel hours and "you know nothing"? C'mon man where did your skydiver ego go

Don't believe everything you read on the Internet...including skydiving instructions and humility.

[davenuk 7]

another vote for tunnel time.

i did my aff level3 and during it, went into an unintended turn due to leg positioning.

4 minutes in the tunnel and i was stable and doing left and right turns, up and down with fair consistency.

went back saturday to do my level 4...

got sunburnt sat around all day waiting for the wind to drop

(it didnt)


:) cheers

[London86 0]

I had a similar issue on level 4, my 90 degree turns weren't great, but literally only just enough to get me on to level 5 - but i wanted to perfect these before having to do 360 turns.

Went and had 10 minutes tunnel time, my instructor there was a skydiver, but not an AFF instructor - but we stuck to my AFF plan and concentrated solely on turns.

Managed to get them stable in the tunnel, and my next jump was a breeze.

Tunnels expensive, but so worth the money when learning. I still go regularly now after graduating AFF and making my way towards A license.

[radical_flyer 0]

Not saying it's not expensive but per minute, coached tunnel time works out like 1/4 or 1/5th as much as coached time in the sky (£10.50/min tunnel, £55 coached jump). even more with rig hire/pack job

[JohnMitchell 14]

radical_flyer

Not saying it's not expensive but per minute, coached tunnel time works out like 1/4 or 1/5th as much as coached time in the s

One AFF jump here costs as much as 14 minutes in the tunnel on ride-the-bench time. Tunnels are the best thing to ever happen to AFF instruction.

[radical_flyer 0]

I was talking about experienced prices for coached jumps (I know almost everywhere else you get coaching as a student so you can jump with others when you get licensed). Obviously AFF levels are more. Also what do you mean ride-the-bench time? And why is it the best thing to happen to instruction, surely it means students are paying fewer repeat fees?

[JohnMitchell 14]

radical_flyer

I was talking about experienced prices for coached jumps (I know almost everywhere else you get coaching as a student so you can jump with others when you get licensed).

Ooops, sorry, my mistake. Yes, I agree with your math.

Quote

Obviously AFF levels are more. Also what do you mean ride-the-bench time?

Our local tunnel runs specials during slow periods, where you can fly space-available for around $12/minute.

Quote

And why is it the best thing to happen to instruction, surely it means students are paying fewer repeat fees?

Getting time in the tunnel before skydiving is like learning to ride a bike before you hop on a motorcycle. I can train them on the ground, but nothing is better than a student who knows how to fly their body already.

Repeat fees? Not my goal. My goal is to have every student pass every level first time.

[wolfriverjoe 1,345]

radical_flyer

...And why is it the best thing to happen to instruction, surely it means students are paying fewer repeat fees?

Because an honest and respectable instructor wants to see their students succeed. Become safe and active jumpers.

Not see them screw up to generate more income.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[JohnMitchell 14]

wolfriverjoe

***...And why is it the best thing to happen to instruction, surely it means students are paying fewer repeat fees?

Because an honest and respectable instructor wants to see their students succeed. Become safe and active jumpers.

Not see them screw up to generate more income.

Agreed. I have plenty of work without repeat fees. I hope no instructor out there enjoys flunking students.

[superplumber 0]

Thank you all for the advice and thoughts.

Went to tunnel and had coached fly for half an hour, breezed through D1 D2 E1 E2.

Finding that dropping the elbows instead of pushing the hand down will initiate the turn. And not trying too hard will make sure the hip stays level and legs symmetrical.