Infinity pack volume question

[Docspidey 0]

Hey all,

I'll preface this post with the fact that I just sent an email to the manufacturer, but I also would like everyone's input here who has any;

I just got all new gear (YES!) and it seems I may have a pack volume issue. I got an infinity i-44 container with a sabre 2 170 and a pd 176 reserve. Now here's the problem: my rigger noticed in the container instructions (instructions? Who reads those things anymore?!?!) that the recommended packvolume for the reserve should be 292, and the pd 176r is 390. Ouch. So the question is, will that thing fit in my infinity safely, or did I get boned with the wrong size rig for my canopies? Anyone run into a similar situation out there? Thanks for the insight, and yes, I will call Kelly about it in the morning also, but I'll sleep better if I'm pretty sure I won't have to return stuff and wait another month or 2 to use it.
Thanks,

Doc

~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~

"Chance favors the prepared mind."
-Anon

[ojf1982 0]

Maybe the manual is stating the size in cubic inches not square footage of the canopy since different manufacturers using different methods of measuring.

The edge ... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who know where it is are those that have gone over - Hunter S. Thompson

[PhreeZone 15]

The 390 is the stated pack volume in cubic inches on the PD176 and the I-44 has a pack volume of 292 cubic inches. It sounds like a I-54 would have been a better match on just paper.

Call KellyF at VSE and ask him or one of the riggers there. They have the most experience on there gear and can tell you and your rigger just how well it should work and if its over their specs.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[riggerrob 558]

Only trust volume numbers from container manufacturers.

[b1jercat 0]

Hi, I went thru the same thing when I put my rig together, just one size bigger all the way around it was an I-55. IIRC the Infinity stated pack volume is measured with straight lines and doesn't allow for the shape outside of the lines.
" Thats what it's made for ." was my answer from Kelly. congrats on your new equipment.

blue skies

jerry

[RIGGER 0]

Please find enclosed the NEW VSE "INFINITY CONTAINER SIZING CHART" which is not in the manual but I got it from Kelly.

Riggers, if you do have problems with the sizing of the containers CONTACT the H/C MFG.

SAFE RIGGING !!!

[srg 0]

VSE has a reputation for sizing their containers aggressively (ie - choosing the very smallest container that will physically hold a given canopy), and my experience bears this out. When I ordered my container, I specified a PD218R and a Sabre 2 210 and VSE delivered an I-66N (narrow version, which I think fits me well). I ended up changing my main to a Spectre 210 (which should pack smaller than a Sabre 2), but adding CRW lines which probably makes my overall pack volume slightly higher than originally planned. It is possible to get these canopies in this container, but it sure isn't much fun, for me or my riggers. I'm actually thinking about ordering an I-77N and transferring my components so they'll fit without all the swearing.

If you plan on downsizing as fast as you can, then the recommended sizes should suit you well. If not, then I recommend using the published volume measurements and estimated canopy pack volumes to choose a size that's more fun to pack.

Spencer

"Be braver -- you can't cross a chasm in two small jumps."

[darkwing 4]

My I-45 fits my PD-176R and my Spectre 190 perfectly. I had a Sabre2 170 in it also. The Sabre2 is a bit smaller than the spectre.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[diablopilot 2]

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VSE has a reputation for sizing their containers aggressively (ie - choosing the very smallest container that will physically hold a given canopy),

I disagree.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[KellyF 16]

b1jercat is pretty much right on the money. The volumes in the owners manual are calculated as the pattern is drawn. That is the only way to accurately find a volume number, and it actually works better for the main container than it does for the reserve due to the shape of the container. The profile of our reserve container is a triangle, but you generally won't find a container (any-not just ours) where the profile is a perfectly straight on the top and bottom, let alone square corners and such When you combine this with the widely varying canopy volume numers, it really is just best to say "size x canopy fits best in size y container". This change will be made when we revise our owners manual.

The chart that RIGGER posted is not complete, (it doesn't have all of our container sizes) but it does cover the most popular sizes.

SRG, our main container sizes are a bit on the "aggressive" side due to the fact that jumpers generally want to downsize, not upsize. Dacron line makes a large difference in canopy pack volume, and if we had known that your main canopy was going to have dacron line, we would have made the main container larger. Packing also plays a large role in how a canopy fits into a container. Many people pack canopies with too much bulk in the center of the bag because it makes it easier to contain the it while getting ready to put it in the bag. This makes it difficult to close the bag completely, and close the container properly. As a general rule of thumb with any container, you want to fill the bag evenly from side to side

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[dgskydive 0]

Another thing that may help everybody when buying a new container is to just tell them what size canopies you are going to put in the container.

I get a lot of calls from people that want "X" size container. Then they have canopies that aren't made to go in that container. Habe your dealer be specific about the canopy sizes and anything strange about your canopy (I.E. dacron lines). This way the manufacture decides what size container to make for you. Then if it doesn't fit you can always say "Hey. I told you what size canopies I had. Why doesn't it fit?" If you tell them you want an "X" size container then that is what you get.

Dom

[srg 0]

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SRG, our main container sizes are a bit on the "aggressive" side due to the fact that jumpers generally want to downsize, not upsize.

Yep. I understand that, and didn't mean this as a complaint. I'm not someone who's looking to downsize, though. Perhaps a couple of checkboxes on the order form would encourage dealers to pass that information along more readily.

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Dacron line makes a large difference in canopy pack volume, and if we had known that your main canopy was going to have dacron line, we would have made the main container larger.

Hmmm. I ordered my Sabre 2 with dacron lines as well, but when I asked if they could put non-cascaded center A+B lines as well, PD said "no - you need a Spectre", so that's what I got. I knew dacron lines added to pack volume, but I didn't know the difference was large. I wish I'd gotten a chance to speak directly with you guys about all of this.

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Packing also plays a large role in how a canopy fits into a container. Many people pack canopies with too much bulk in the center of the bag because it makes it easier to contain the it while getting ready to put it in the bag. This makes it difficult to close the bag completely, and close the container properly. As a general rule of thumb with any container, you want to fill the bag evenly from side to side

Any chance I could get you to show me your technique some time? I haven't actually managed to bag the Spectre by myself yet. I just got a demo of my reserve from PD and I've been jumping that to get experience with it before I have to pull silver. It's slightly larger but not as slippery, of course, and I can bag it myself with minimal difficulty. Once it's in the bag it drops into the container easily.

"Be braver -- you can't cross a chasm in two small jumps."

[Amazon 7]

SPencer... you managed to get the Conquest 230 into there... I guess I will just have to teach you the Amazon Psychotic-Trashpack Technique.

I can't wait to see how "aggressive" my new Infinity is going to be.. it was built for the Raven r-Max reserve and my new Samurai......so packing will be LOTS and LOTS of fun sticking that slippery stuff into the bag next week.

[KellyF 16]

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I'm not someone who's looking to downsize, though. Perhaps a couple of checkboxes on the order form would encourage dealers to pass that information along more readily.

That's a good idea that will probably find it's way on to the next order form revision

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Any chance I could get you to show me your technique some time? I haven't actually managed to bag the Spectre by myself yet. I just got a demo of my reserve from PD and I've been jumping that to get experience with it before I have to pull silver. It's slightly larger but not as slippery, of course, and I can bag it myself with minimal difficulty. Once it's in the bag it drops into the container easily.

Yep, we can set something up sometime

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[garyjackman 0]

I have an Infinity I-44 with a Spectre 170 and a PD176R packed in the tray with my CYPRES. It all fits in just fine.

I would trust what the folks at VSE set you up with.

[srg 0]

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SPencer... you managed to get the Conquest 230 into there...

Yep, twice, but you may recall it took two people each time, and they were both worn out when they were done. And your canopy is well broken-in and has microlines!

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I can't wait to see how "aggressive" my new Infinity is going to be.. it was built for the Raven r-Max reserve and my new Samurai......so packing will be LOTS and LOTS of fun sticking that slippery stuff into the bag next week.

Can I watch?

"Be braver -- you can't cross a chasm in two small jumps."