1.1:1 wing loading for a novice

[megamalfunction 1]

How bout you go fuck yourself.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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I know I wouldn't want to be getting blown backwards on a 190

In full-flight a canopy loaded about 1 pound per square foot is going to go forwards at about 25 MPH. The next size down is going to be going about 26.5 MPH. Even several sizes aren't going to make a big difference in when you're flying backwards or forwards.

There are very few situations in which I'd be willing to jump my 105 but not my 245.

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so... yes I think it's good advice. And as for no wind/ down wind conditions ... I think he can handle the 170.

You don't have the experience needed to make that decision for yourself let alone some one else.

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I'm loaded at 1.15:1 and I'm not scurrrred!

You should be.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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If you jump a canopy that has a wingloading lower than 1:1, your going to get blown backwards, period. I know, I used to jump a 200 sq ft. canopy. When was the last time you jumped something lower than a 1:1 ratio? TANDEMS are loaded higher than that!

I jump a 245 for classic accuracy loaded to .7 pounds per square foot and have never landed backwards, even on one load where they needed catchers for the tandems.

[megamalfunction 1]

You know what's going to happen in a few months from now? The OP is going to end up getting his A License, ask around his DZ, and this is the response he's going to get:

"How much do you weigh?"

"160 lbs."

"O yeah, come check out this Sabre II 170 we've got for sale in the proshop ... we've got a nice wings container that will fit you too!"

[DocPop 1]

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Whatever, you know, and I know, your not going to get any forward drive with a 190 if you weigh 160 lbs. and its windy. Get the 170, there's a reason why that's what everyone jumps. Every newbie I've ever met jumps a Sabre II 170.

Why stop at a 170? Why not a 150? Or a 120?

You seem to be concerned about wind penetration, so smaller should be better, right? Is there ever a case where the canopy is too small? What is that point?

Sorry for all the questions, but you really seem to know your stuff.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[megamalfunction 1]

O no what a slippery slope! Next thing you know I'm gonna be telling him to get a velo, and you'll have him convinced he needs a Manta!

[DocPop 1]

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O no what a slippery slope! Next thing you know I'm gonna be telling him to get a velo, and you'll have him convinced he needs a Manta!

Can you answer my questions please? I said nothing about a Manta.

This last post was a little light on the facts. Thanks again.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[megamalfunction 1]

Well that's actually an easy answer since I weigh 160 lbs. and am a newbie myself. I'd say 150 sq. ft is a tad too small, and 190 sq. ft. is a tad too big. 170 sq. ft. sounds just right. I don't think he'd really be in the Black Death category till around 130 sq. ft.

[labrys 0]

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How bout you go fuck yourself.

Wasn't a specific part of my plan for the evening, but what the hell. I'll probably sleep better if I do.

And by the way, in the 9 years I've jumped at My DZ, I've never seen a 160 pound student be advised to buy a 170 at 20-25 jumps.

That's not speculation.

ETA: Five minutes later (lighting a smoke)

It appears that you actually are capable of giving good advice.

I feel dreamy, thanks.

Owned by Remi #?

[DocPop 1]

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Well that's actually an easy answer since I weigh 160 lbs. and am a newbie myself. I'd say 150 sq. ft is a tad too small, and 190 sq. ft. is a tad too big. 170 sq. ft. sounds just right. I don't think he'd really be in the Black Death category till around 130 sq. ft.

Well I'd say that giving absolute advice based on numbers over the internet is a bad idea. For you, for me, for pretty much anyone except the instructors who have seen how they fly.

The point I was trying to make was that it is seems stupid to guess at what might be right for the OP - but that point seems to have passed you by.

G'night.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[airtwardo 6]

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Well that's actually an easy answer since I weigh 160 lbs. and am a newbie myself. I'd say 150 sq. ft is a tad too small, and 190 sq. ft. is a tad too big. 170 sq. ft. sounds just right. I don't think he'd really be in the Black Death category till around 130 sq. ft.

Well I'd say that giving absolute advice based on numbers over the Internet is a bad idea. For you, for me, for pretty much anyone except the instructors who have seen how they fly.

The point I was trying to make was that it is seems stupid to guess at what might be right for the OP - but that point seems to have passed you by.

G'night.

Doesn't it just drive ya nutz when people that have no business giving advice about skydiving do just that?!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[labrys 0]

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Doesn't it just drive ya nutz when people that have no business giving advice about skydiving do just that?!

I feel the need to go "relax" again

I'll be thinking of you.

I know that would repulse the average bear.

Owned by Remi #?

[devildog 0]

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In full-flight a canopy loaded about 1 pound per square foot is going to go forwards at about 25 MPH. The next size down is going to be going about 26.5 MPH. Even several sizes aren't going to make a big difference in when you're flying backwards or forwards.

Just out of curiosity (and a tangent), is that off the top of your head or is there a formula to calculate ground speed based on WL?

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[faulk04 0]

I was in your same situation. I weight about 165-170 and when I bought my rig it came with a 170...they didn't want me to downsize from a 220 to a 170 so I bought a 190 and jumped that. I jumped it 10 times and my instructors were all comfortable with me jumping the 170. Just discuss it with your instructors since they are the ones that know your canopy skills the best...not the people on here.

[billvon 2,400]

>If its pretty windy I'd go with the higher wingloading

VERY bad advice. A downwind landing on a windy day with a larger parachute might result in a trip to the hospital; with a smaller canopy, he might not be so lucky.

Buy a canopy that will save your life when things go poorly, not when they go perfectly.

[hchunter614 0]

lol, that made me spit soda all over my monitor.
Miss all of my friends up @ AerOhio.

[DocPop 1]

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Doesn't it just drive ya nutz when people that have no business giving advice about skydiving do just that?!

When it's downright dangerous, yes.

It's not like this was advice on jumpsuit colors, or "should I buy a Javelin or a Mirage?".

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[waveoff5500 0]

thanks guys im definitely going to take it slow and just focus on jump numbers and canopy control at this point and worry about gear when the time comes around!

"its just a normal day at the dropzone until its not"

1653

[mdrejhon 8]

It really, really, really depends.
Definitely YES use your instructors, your DZO, your safety officer, to help you decide on the best canopy.

The safety gene tells me to get a 190. Which was what I was originally going to get. However, I went 1.1:1 too for my first canopy, but I had 59 jumps and intentionally kept renting longer to make sure 170 was okay, once I got the unamious okay from everyone at the dropzone after a 170 became available for sale. About 600 jumps later, I still have the 170, even though I've jumped various sizes down to 140 dozens of times. Now for my jump numbers, I'm relatively conservative compared to a lot of skydivers...

I'll be the first to tell you a brand new ZPX Pilot 168 is much safer overall relative to a rental Sabre1 190 that has more than 500 jumps put onto it. It even lands slower, both vertically and horizontally. And even on the same model, a brand new Pilot 140 with proper lines, lands safer and slower than a rental Pilot 150 with 700 jumps. My experience with various rentals and demos tells me to add around one or two downsize level factor for brand new versus a 500-700 jump used canopy of the same size. Therefore, if you strongly desire the 170 instead of bigger, try to buy new or low-jump item of one of the popular beginner friendly models like Pilot, etc.

But, most of all, don't think about it until after you've gotten your A!

[megamalfunction 1]

You know what I'm really sorry man for giving you all of this bad advice. WHATEVER YOU DO, don't load your canopy at 1.05:1 its certain BLACK DEATH. DONT DO IT. YOUR GONNA FEMUR IN!

[airtwardo 6]

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You know what I'm really sorry man for giving you all of this bad advice. WHATEVER YOU DO, don't load your canopy at 1.05:1 its certain BLACK DEATH. DONT DO IT. YOUR GONNA FEMUR IN!

...and who says ya can't get good advice from a guy hammering out 20 jumps a year?!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[mdrejhon 8]

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How bout you go fuck yourself.

Your one warning.

(A greenie should say that instead. ... I don't appreciate the language used on a fellow jump buddy, labrys)

[megamalfunction 1]

And you know whats going to happen? This kids going to end up going to his DZ, and everyone is going to LAUGH when he tells them that he heard on DZ.com that 1.05:1 is a dangerous wingloading for a licensed skydiver! ABSOLUTELY ridiculous. But whatever, I'll quit beating a dead horse. Flame on.

[airtwardo 6]

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And you know whats going to happen? This kids going to end up going to his DZ, and everyone is going to LAUGH when he tells them that he heard on DZ.com that 1.05:1 is a dangerous wingloading for a licensed skydiver! ABSOLUTELY ridiculous. But whatever, I'll quit beating a dead horse. Flame on.

He's got 4 jumps and it appears some common sense, I sincerely doubt anyone will be laughing at HIM.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[davelepka 4]

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And you know whats going to happen? This kids going to end up going to his DZ, and everyone is going to LAUGH when he tells them that he heard on DZ.com that 1.05:1 is a dangerous wingloading for a licensed skydiver!

First off, there's a chance that people from his DZ might just be on DZ.com and contributing to this thread. Just a chance.

Second, despite your years of experience training students, the hard truth is that skydiving isn't for everyone. Some people take longer than others to figure this out, but there are people who don't hold up well under pressure, and for those people, if they insist on jumping, a larger canopy is an asset to them. I have seen many, many landings that I was surprised didn't casue injury (or worse injuries) to the jumper, and extra speed would not have helped any of them.

It's one thing to chime in with your own advice. That's your right under the freedom of speech, and even if others disagree, your point is still your point, and nobody can take that away from you or fault you for it. However, when you then go on to belittle the other, more conservative points that other people have made, you prove yourself to be a grade A shithead.

Generally in life it works like this - if you're in the right, you can get away with being an asshole. People might not like it, but right is right, and you can't argue with that. If you're not in the right, you can get away with an alternate opinion or viewpoint, but you're not going to help your casue if you act like an asshole. When you're wrong and an asshole, you're sort of just an asshole because you don't have being 'right' to fall back on.

At this point you're just an asshole.