ridestrong 1 #51 April 27, 2011 Quote Haven't people died from broken necks PLF-ing on downwinders? Here's my rule. If you have a high rate of descent, PLF. If you have a high forward speed, slide. If you have a high rate of descent and a high forward speed, kiss your ass goodbye. What John said.*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.* ----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjumpenfool 2 #52 April 27, 2011 Quote Quote If you're around this sport long enough, you'll get a chance to practice PLF's. Here's my take: One of these days you're going to need to do a good PLF. Wouldn't it be a good idea to have some PLF experience before you actually need it? Hence, I tell my students to do PLF landings right from the git-go. Stand-up will come later. Other I's tell them to stand up landings from jump 1. Stand-up is a goal, yes. Trying to PLF in a dire situation without having ever done one quite often results in a mess. I was a gymnast for 13 years before I ever made a skydive. How I do a PLF and how I would teach another to do one are two different things. I'm now 50.. cough, cough @ Pops… I agree with you completely. My take on this is, we don’t spend enough time teaching PLF’s nor do we spend enough time practicing them. Birdshit & Fools Productions "Son, only two things fall from the sky." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #53 April 27, 2011 My static line training (T-10) was 20 minutes of "skydive" and 2.5 hours PLF from 4ft and 8ft platforms. My brother was my Jumpmaster and I hated that SOB. 2hrs into it... Bro: Do it again Me: I've already done over 50 of these damn things! Bro: Do it again Me: Wait a minute here... Bro: Do it again Me: But... Bro: Do it again Me: But, but... Bro: Do it AGAIN! Me: (you asshole)...WHUMP! Bro: Do it again. This time backwards. Me: ...!PMUHW My first landing, I gathered up my stuff and went to him and shook his hand and said, "Thanks, bro," My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #54 April 27, 2011 QuoteQuote>Stopping a PLF at that point will have you sliding head first, not feet first. Not if your feet are in front of you. It takes a little practice. ... in which case it is a plain old slide, not a PLF. What he is referring to is in a Properly Executed PLF. When done right, the jumper lays down (in sequence), the balls of feet, calf, outside of thigh, buttocks, and the "pull up muscle". He then kicks up and over, rotating along the back of the shoulders. This kicking it up and over will result in the feet now pointed, generally, in the direction of the fall. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrianM 1 #55 April 27, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuote>Stopping a PLF at that point will have you sliding head first, not feet first. Not if your feet are in front of you. It takes a little practice. ... in which case it is a plain old slide, not a PLF. What he is referring to is in a Properly Executed PLF. When done right, the jumper lays down (in sequence), the balls of feet, calf, outside of thigh, buttocks, and the "pull up muscle". He then kicks up and over, rotating along the back of the shoulders. This kicking it up and over will result in the feet now pointed, generally, in the direction of the fall. Go back and read his posts. His first post is talking about doing a properly executed PLF, except stopping before rolling diagonally across the back. That will have you sliding head first. His second post is talking about sticking your feet out in front and sliding in on your side - not a PLF at all."It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #56 April 27, 2011 QuoteThis kicking it up and over will result in the feet now pointed, generally, in the direction of the fall. Matt, Bill said QuoteNow take that, but instead of legs straight in front, put your feet and knees together, bend your legs a little, and twist to the right or the left (i.e. the same way you'd set up for a forward PLF.) Keep your legs up. Let the side of your feet touch first, then let your calves and the side of your thigh hit. At that point you should have your legs in front of you, and you'll be sliding on your side. Meaning no kick it up and over, just a slide. Isn't the point of the 'kick it up and over' to kill off the rest of the momentum, so you shouldn't be moving much after that?"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,475 #57 April 27, 2011 >in which case it is a plain old slide, not a PLF. If you want to call it a slide, go right ahead. The important parts are: feet and knees together, angled off to one side land with feet in front contact with feet, side of calf, thigh In a standard PLF you would complete the roll. In a sliding PLF (or plain old slide, if you prefer) you don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrianM 1 #58 April 27, 2011 Quote>in which case it is a plain old slide, not a PLF. If you want to call it a slide, go right ahead. The important parts are: feet and knees together, angled off to one side land with feet in front contact with feet, side of calf, thigh In a standard PLF you would complete the roll. In a sliding PLF (or plain old slide, if you prefer) you don't. In a PLF, your feet contact the ground, your body keeps rolling in the direction you are moving, putting you in a head first position (until you roll diagonally across the back, kicking your legs up and over - which then puts you feet first). What you describe has nothing to do with a PLF at all."It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #59 April 27, 2011 QuoteQuote>in which case it is a plain old slide, not a PLF. If you want to call it a slide, go right ahead. The important parts are: feet and knees together, angled off to one side land with feet in front contact with feet, side of calf, thigh In a standard PLF you would complete the roll. In a sliding PLF (or plain old slide, if you prefer) you don't. In a PLF, your feet contact the ground, your body keeps rolling in the direction you are moving, putting you in a head first position (until you roll diagonally across the back, kicking your legs up and over - which then puts you feet first). What you describe has nothing to do with a PLF at all. 'FEET AND KNEES TOGETHER' Points of contact in a PLF: Feet Calf Thigh Butt Shoulder Arms up & in... elbows touching to create a round bowl across the shoulders. Works great distributing the force across the body when coming pretty much straight down, but as the forward speed picks up it usually tends to become a slide. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #60 April 28, 2011 Yeah, I see that now. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,475 #61 April 28, 2011 >In a PLF, your feet contact the ground, your body keeps rolling in the >direction you are moving, putting you in a head first position (until you roll >diagonally across the back, kicking your legs up and over - which then >puts you feet first). You've just described a forward PLF. Now picture a backward PLF, one where you get halfway through (i.e, your thigh has contacted.) Now - stop. That's the position you want to be in for a problematic high speed landing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #62 April 28, 2011 Quote>In a PLF, your feet contact the ground, your body keeps rolling in the >direction you are moving, putting you in a head first position (until you roll >diagonally across the back, kicking your legs up and over - which then >puts you feet first). You've just described a forward PLF. Now picture a backward PLF, one where you get halfway through (i.e, your thigh has contacted.) Now - stop. That's the position you want to be in for a problematic high speed landing. I fail to see how this distributes the impact any better than an ass slide landing. You're not rolling with it, you're just sliding it out."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,475 #63 April 28, 2011 >I fail to see how this distributes the impact any better than an ass slide landing. If you slide on your ass and you hit something hard, you can break your coccyx/pelvis. Sliding on the side of your thigh with your feet in front affords you a lot more protection. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #64 April 28, 2011 Quote>I fail to see how this distributes the impact any better than an ass slide landing. If you slide on your ass and you hit something hard, you can break your coccyx/pelvis. Sliding on the side of your thigh with your feet in front affords you a lot more protection. But, a hard impact in that situation could also jack your back up pretty good, coming down at an angle and hitting hard just sounds painful to think about. You've even had a hard impact doing it, so a jumper on his first jump, probably going to hurt more, wouldn't you think?"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mdrejhon 8 #65 April 28, 2011 I've had enough experience with big ways to have experienced quite a FEW rolls in various conditions. I've rolled automatically/instinctively in the following cases: - Crosswind (might have been downwind) landing in tall grass outside of Perris triangle, intending to slide. but caught my foot, forcing me to roll forward. Someone else on got their shoulder injured on landing during a tumble in nearly exactly the same area I landed in, and had to skip the next jump. - Zero wind landing in Perris dried mud, tripped over large loose chunk of hard dried mud at Perris (almost the size of a head), propelling me to a potential faceplant but rolled over my head succesfully. I got all dusty. The biggest ouch was from the stubbed toe. - Semi-downwind landing with cows/horses in fenced-in yard in Texas surrounded by forest (north of Spaceland). Narrowly avoided cowpies. Grassy with small bushes, tripped over a bush, and rolled almost twice. Had to jettison rig and climb barb-wire fence to escape the animals (ehm, the cows looked a little disturbed...) Tall grass, thin grass, mudflat...rolls are more risky in some situations than others, and it's nearly impossible to prevent yourself from rolling when you've got lots of forward velocity in very tall vegetation (which provides a padding opportunity anyway for a higher speed roll). High speed slides are much easier on flat/thin ground or asphalt. The nature of the jumps I do -- big ways during a bad spot, and is an outer tracking away from the drop zone at break off. And sometimes the assigned landing direction becomes downwind... Other minor injuries do happen (stretched ligament in thumb or neck, sprained ankle) from jumps with much tamer landings, or from a hard opening, etc. While I tend to run or slide a downwinder if it's easy to do so, I'm sorta conditioned to immediately PLF if my feet get caught, which often happens during a downwind landing into tall grass. (Seems to go back to the student days: I landed downwind on a Manta 288 once as a student on a very windy day too -- landed in tall grass -- tried to slide, but I got flipped over.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ridestrong 1 #66 April 28, 2011 Seems both PLF and sliding have their place. I don't think it's right to tell people they should ALWAYS perform just one over the other. I also think that a big part of it is dependent upon which one someone is more comfortable performing. Say your coming in for a landing and feel your going to need to perform one or the other but the decision is 50/50, I think most people would do what they feel most comfortable with, doing the opposite may cause them to tense up and more susceptible to injury.*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.* ----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #67 April 28, 2011 And no matter what you do, do it with your feet and knees together, knees slightly bent. If you're gonna hit something, hit it with your feet, not your face. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #68 April 28, 2011 If you're gonna hit something, hit it with your feet, not your face. N O W ya tell me! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #69 April 28, 2011 Yes, in your case I advise you use your head. It's not as valuable as your feet and knees. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fasted3 0 #70 April 29, 2011 Quote Quote Haven't people died from broken necks PLF-ing on downwinders? Here's my rule. If you have a high rate of descent, PLF. If you have a high forward speed, slide. If you have a high rate of descent and a high forward speed, kiss your ass goodbye. What John said. What John said, he took back, let's remember. Never give up. If you have a high rate of descent and a high forward speed, PLF like your life depends on it. At that point, it's that, or give up, ie: kiss your ass good bye. We all know the best choice.But what do I know? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyper 0 #71 April 29, 2011 even if they land downwind the chance that they would have a perfect downwind direction is very small. Their horizontal path will have a side component as well. Which makes superman (slide) landing even more risky. But hey, superman would look like a dork if he had to PLF on his landing... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #72 June 2, 2011 I still don't know how its possible to do a plf while moving forward,,,,,all training i've seen has been off a picnic table, truck bed or some 2x 4 platform abortion. I think all one can do is put feet/knees together and twist at the hips.....smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #73 June 2, 2011 Seems as though everyone has forgotten that the OP is a young jumper. The sliding technique is not recommended for a young jumper. Feet out front attempting to butt slide, or even side-slide, is how tailbones get broken...and worse. Yes, sliding is a learned skill and it does have it's place in landing safely. The key word is "learned". Personally, I would never tell a young jumper to slide in. I would tell him to perfect his landings and PLF until he gets a solid grasp on variable descent rates.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
