jmfreefly 0 #1 March 9, 2004 Background: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=844393#844393 Ok, so last load of the day, on the way up to the plane, a fellow jumper says "Hey, your cypress isn't on". uh.. yeah.. it should be on. I turned it on this morning. Then I remember that my cypress 2 is in the slim group of those under Airtec's advisory (but not a mandatory recall, which I totally disagree with.. see previous post). Dang thing's LCD is blank.. UUUGGHH!! I knew I should have gotten my rigger to pull this and ship it to airtec out of cycle (rigger cost and shipping on my dime, of course.. thanks airtec.. not!) So, I said "It should be on. Cycle it once, and then it should be off.. then cycle it again, and it should be on" He does it.. and nothing. He does 2 cycles again, and nothing. @#$@#!!!! So I take off my freakin rig, and do it myself, waiting between cycles for a little bit (and have the rig in contact with the tarmac.. figured it would help discharge any static).. cycle second time, and it comes up and counts down. AIRTEC, HOW IS THIS NOT A PROBLEM WORTHY OF A RECALL???? Total baloney. I feel like I can't trust this unit anymore until airtec sees it and does its mod.. even then, I will be quite wary. Anyone else's exhibit this defect? j Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #2 March 9, 2004 This static electricity problem is mentioned in CSPA's latest technical bulletin. Apparently the Cypres 2 is still turned on, you just cannot see it in the window. A long way from being life-threatening. Oh, and before you get your shorts in a knot, remember how benign this problem is compared with some other service bulletins, recalls, updates, airworthiness directives, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #3 March 9, 2004 QuoteA long way from being life-threatening. Oh, and before you get your shorts in a knot, remember how benign this problem is compared with some other service bulletins, recalls, updates, airworthiness directives, etc. maybe not life-threatening, but who knows how it could function properly after that ??? Maybe it could fire anytime... I'd rather jump without an AAD rather than with an AAD which MIGHT BE WORKING... OR NOTscissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #4 March 9, 2004 I have the same problem with my Cypres. They'll send you a loaner while they fix yours. Just ask. It's not really that bad, I'll just wait to get it done. Mine has always been ON even if it looked off. I checked over and over. Remember to wait a second before you try to turn it on again.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jumpmunki 0 #5 March 10, 2004 erm... far be it from me to say but, i don't own a cypress but surley this is airtecs problem, if the unit is still covered under warrenty then they should cover all charges incurred to the person effected. if this problem had been spotted then dear old davey dickens wouldn't have to pop his reserve, pay a rigger... pay for shipping and pay for a repack.. airtec should foot the bill ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottjaco 0 #6 March 10, 2004 Dude, If your display is going blank, send it in on your next repack cycle! Simple. Aparently the problem is only in a few units. Not all cypres 2's have this problem. I've done up to 6 jumps in one day without any problem. I always check. Just on principal, I would send it in if it ever started happening. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #7 March 10, 2004 QuoteAIRTEC, HOW IS THIS NOT A PROBLEM WORTHY OF A RECALL???? Total baloney. I feel like I can't trust this unit anymore until airtec sees it and does its mod.. even then, I will be quite wary. As I have always said...Never be the first on the block with a new toy."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #8 March 10, 2004 Or you may pay the price of being conservative or even snob. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #9 March 10, 2004 QuoteOr you may pay the price of being conservative or even snob. Care to expand on this??? Something got lost in the translation. The problem with new stuff is it is new....New can be very bad (NOVA, Crossfire 1, Catapult, RSL's on old racers, Micro Ravens...ect) or just be inconvienant (CYPRES 2 screen going blank and having to send it back on your own dime, Neptune needing all kinds of software additions.) I don't want "issues" with my skydiving gear. I have seen a few folks die due to the new neat gear...I have seem many more discover issues with new designs and a few of those were great dissapointments. You may think its more important to be "cool" with the new toy....I think being "cool" is being safe."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #10 March 10, 2004 You are free to stick to the good old prooven stuff. It may cost more, but you are safe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #11 March 10, 2004 QuoteYou are free to stick to the good old prooven stuff. It may cost more, but you are safe. Feel free to risk your life trying new stuff."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #12 March 10, 2004 Remember you are risking your life even typing those words........... Life is nothing without luck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jmfreefly 0 #13 March 10, 2004 Well, someone is going to have to field test new gear, otherwise we would still be jumping rounds, belly rigs, etc. Right?Granted, 'better them than me' is a pretty good policy for new gear, but I am sure I am classified as a gear head, and guilty of getting newer stuff. But I certainly go into these endeavors with my eyes open as to the risks. As for Cypress-2, my real gripe is of Airtec's attitude of this. I contend that anyone who thinks they know that their unit is on and funcitoning properly is fooling themselves. There is absolutely no way for joe skydiver to tell. (Black box testing requires feedback, and the display is the primary method to tell the skydiver that the unit is 'functioning as expected'. Without that feedback, there is absolutely no way to tell.) And the idea that 'if I cycle it once, and it doesnt come one must mean that the unit was on' is erroneous logic also. Now, if you feel confident that Airtec has done enough testing to confirm that it always is just a display problem, I guess you shouldn't worry. As for me, if things don't work as they expect, I distrust them entirely. See my other thread for more details about these points. Anyway, I think Airtec should be requresting these units back asap, instead of saying 'well, if we see the unit at 4 year, we will fix it.. or if you REALLY want, you can send it in earlier'. My feeling is that is more of an issue than they want to acknowledge. If they just stepped up and said "hey, we need to fix these, get them to us right away", and maybe helped with shipping, I wouldn't have any issue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #14 March 10, 2004 QuoteRemember you are risking your life even typing those words........... I know no one that has died from an accident that involved typing. I know plenty of folks that have been hurt or killed from "new"gear. Look you have <150 jumps listed on your profile... Do you even know what a NOVA is? I'm not going to get into a debate...You want to have the cool new toys...Great have a good time. I think its foolish to run out and get unproven stuff...And history shows the same thing. Im really not going to get into some Bull Shit debate about the risks of living. You think your life is worth risking on unproven toys...cool... I don't feel that way based off of 10 years of seeing the new toys not live up to the hype. Feel free to choose as you will and not to listen to others."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #15 March 10, 2004 QuoteWell, someone is going to have to field test new gear, otherwise we would still be jumping rounds, belly rigs, etc. Right? Granted, 'better them than me' is a pretty good policy for new gear, but I am sure I am classified as a gear head, and guilty of getting newer stuff. But I certainly go into these endeavors with my eyes open as to the risks. One question...Are you happy that you bought a CYPRES 2 that has this problem? Would you be happier if you had waited 6 mths to a year and this was then not an issue? I'm pretty sure this issue is fixed by now. And this was a SMALL issue...More of an incovienance than a danger...But would you still be OK with the purchase if it yanked you out at 6 grand? When you get unproven things in this sport you risk your life on them. Some of them are less risk than others...Altimeters Helmuts, jumpsuits...ect. Some are riskier Canopies and rigs.... Some are unknown AAD's. When you go spend your hard earned money on the latest and greatest stuff, and it does not live up to the hype is that OK? What if it kills you? I know several that thought the Nova and Crossfire were the best things in the world....Until they started killing people. I know folks that said the catupult was the BEST thing to come out....Now most don't The ASTRA was going to run CYPRES out of business....Anyone bought one of them today? And the attitude of "It's OK send it in on the next 4year" is crap. Its the risks of buying the new toys first...You get to be a test jumper...And if you like that kind of thing, and don't mind PAYING to do it...Then go ahead. I don't."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarkM 0 #16 March 10, 2004 Quote As for Cypress-2, my real gripe is of Airtec's attitude of this. I can understand their attitude, actually. If the screen blanks out due to this issue, it's still on and working properly. From a jumper's perspective the worst case is that the unit is off and they don't know it. That shouldn't be a big deal since the Cypres is just a backup device. You should be jumping like it was off anyway. For those jumpers not comfortable with that they can send it in to have it fixed. If they made the fix manditory, it might piss off those jumpers who didn't care about the issue and would just assume have it fixed on the 4 year maint. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #17 March 10, 2004 Right. If you want it fixed, Airtech and SSK have offered to fix it whenever you want to send it in. What's the problem... send it in. If you're nice about it, you can check into having a temporary unit to use while yours is fixed. It shouldn't be too much trouble to have your rigger swap units, even if your not due for a repack.Oh, hello again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottjaco 0 #18 March 11, 2004 One thing I want to mention again in Airtec's defense is that this display problem is only in a handful of Cypres 2 units. I say again, I've owned a Cypres 2 since August 2003 and have done many jumps in one day without ever having it go blank. If it ever happens, I'll send it in on my next repack. Hell, I paid $1,200 bucks, it better work! I just don't want people to be afraid to buy the new Cypres 2 because they work great! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #19 March 11, 2004 QuoteOne thing I want to mention again in Airtec's defense is that this display problem is only in a handful of Cypres 2 units And only a handful of Novas killed people. Just cause its only a few units...does not make it OK. But the risk of jumping unproven equipment is dealing with new issues....From minor ones, to possibly dangerous ones. This is a minor one. But I would still be pissed if I spent 1200.00 bucks on the thing and it was messed up. And its their problem...THEY should pay to fix it...not expect the customer to pay even the shipping. If I was Airtec...With the Vigil out..I would be bending over to help out those that bought my new CYPRES...Not hanging them out to dry."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jumpmunki 0 #20 March 11, 2004 if you bought a microwave for instance... and it was working but sometimes the timer went blank or it didn't beep when it finished and you'd shelled out $600 for it ... would you complain to the manafacturer that you've paid for goods that are faulty and you want it sorting out NOW ? ... i know i would.. when i pay for something i want it to work perfectly ..... if it doesn't it isn't my fault ... why should i have topay for there mistakes? ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #21 March 11, 2004 QuoteI know no one that has died from an accident that involved typing. 9/11??? QuoteLook you have <150 jumps listed on your profile... Yeah, I know under 200 jumps I cant have even my own opinion. QuoteGreat have a good time. I think its foolish to run out and get unproven stuff...And history shows the same thing. I have not signed up to test the latest catapult seat. Just consider buying something less than 5 years old... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #22 March 11, 2004 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I know no one that has died from an accident that involved typing. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9/11??? 9/11 was a TERRORIST attack...Not a typing accident. Stop acting like an idiot. Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Look you have <150 jumps listed on your profile... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yeah, I know under 200 jumps I cant have even my own opinion. Nope you can have opinions all day...But with less than 200 jumps...You opinions about skydiving equipment, and techniques are not very good. Im done with this 100 jump wonder. He clearly "knows it all"."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
secondskin 0 #23 March 11, 2004 QuoteAs I have always said...Never be the first on the block with a new toy. You made your point QuoteI'm not going to get into a debate...You want to have the cool new toys...Great have a good time. I think its foolish to run out and get unproven stuff...And history shows the same thing. Point made again - yet you begin to get into 'debates about it'. QuoteHe clearly "knows it all". Why so rude? I've read so many of your threads where you simply come 'storming in' and debate things to death in a way that reads (to me) "I know better than you". Just chill. You made your opinion known on the topic, why must you get into these nasty little debates? Granted you have lots of jumps and knowledge, but in a public forum like this, all kinds of people are going to make their opinions known. Get used to that. So a "100 jump wonder" may have an opinion and post it, thats how it is. The smart people know what opinion / advise to listen to and what to take with a grain of salt. While I appreciate much of the knowledge you have shared in the forums, I don't appreciate the attitude you take sometimes. Just my opinion and I know it means nothing to you - but I'm happier having said it publicly. Good day. _____________ I am not one that normally tries new things right off the bat. I don't like being a guinna pig. Airtec has earned a respect for the Cypres 1. I hope the Cypres 2 problems will be overcome quickly. I heard there are a few minor glitches / set backs with the Vigil as well. I read a case of it firing on the ground. ?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #24 March 11, 2004 I dont think so. You are the one who knows everything better. I would enjoy talking discussing with you before youve got you experience and strong judgement about everything. Dare to talk about 9/11! Or is it a tabu? Ive just wanted to point that badluck can reach you anywhere. I dont think that dieing in a terrorist attack is a common thing in US. Or which is more possible ? Havign a plane(commercial) crashed or having a 2out mal with a not so classic AAD? Try not to take it personal. I dont think it is strictly about skydiving. Its about trust. If you dont trust it, dont do it or dont take it. With my number of jumps I might used gears that you wont willing to even try, but I dont blame you for this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #25 March 11, 2004 Final post on this. QuoteYou are the one who knows everything better I'm not sure this is an attack, or a statment. This could be part of the problem....I took your calling me a snob as an attack. Maybe you ment that as a complement? Quote Or you may pay the price of being conservative or even snob. QuoteDare to talk about 9/11! Or is it a tabu? It's not Tabu...But a bunch of folks that went to work and were typing had nothing to do with the attack. You said: QuoteRemember you are risking your life even typing those words........... And I said I know no one that has died from an accident that involved typing. You came back with 9/11....A terroist attack has NOTHING to do with typing or new skydiving gear being untested and sometimes dangerous. QuoteOr which is more possible ? Havign a plane(commercial) crashed or having a 2out mal with a not so classic AAD? Don't know...But I can reduce the chances of skydiving gear killing me by jumping trusted gear. And old joke goes: A recipe for disaster. You drive to the DZ in your Ford Pinto (A car known for exploding if hit in an accident). Get in a Queen Air (A plane known for losing an engine). With a drunk pilot. You jump your Nova (a Main known to collapse on final). In your Reflex with a catupult (The Catupult was know to casue some proplems). While you are wearing a Sentinal (An AAD known to missfire) With a Micro Raven (a reserve known to break lines, and rip apart). Or you could choose to get into your Volvo ( a car know to be very safe) To a DZ with a well maintained Otter. With a sober pilot. While jumping a Specter in a Vector 3 with a PD 126 and a CYPRES. Now...Which is more safe? Skydiving is about eliminating the risks as much as you can."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
