jsaxton 0 #1 October 28, 2005 Someone jumped the TV tower last night and got caught on the guy wires. Rescue cut him down and news reported that he is in serious condition. KTVU TV 06:50am. Best wishes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skolls081102 0 #2 October 28, 2005 Discussion going on in The Bonfire with links to the news articles. (In case anyone hasn't seen it). The sole intention, is learning to fly.Condition grounded, but determined to try.Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies.Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #3 October 28, 2005 More discussion here.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #4 October 28, 2005 News report here. Bonfire thread here.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #5 October 28, 2005 To add to Yuri's post in the other thread about this jumper: It ought to be pretty much impossible to strike a terminal tower. Not only do you have plenty of time to track away, but you also ought to have any available wind blowing you away from object strike. However, I know that this tower is sometimes jumped into the upwind sectors. I have no idea why, as there is clear landing in all 3 quadrants. But I have seen, on multiple occasions, jumpers exiting into the upwind quadrant when the wind shifts. Apparently, they haven't realized that you can walk around and jump the downwind side, no matter which direction the wind is blowing. I have had a couple of mystifying (to me) conversations with jumpers at this tower who told me that they were jumping the upwind side because "that's the side we jump". You can read my (rather angry) account of one such incident here. Although I do not know what happened specifically in this case, the weather history for Walnut Grove shows the wind from a non-standard direction. From these facts, I would guess that the jumper exited into an upwind quadrant and was blown back into the guy wires. Safety note to all: Always jump towers into the downwind quadrants. Change the direction of exit to maintain a downwind exit, so that the wind helps move you away from the tower, rather than blowing you toward it.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #6 October 28, 2005 The Houston crew has jumped a heckuva bunch of towers with all sorts of configurations and we've never had trouble finding a way to put ourselves off on the downwind side of an object. Jumping into the wind, unless it's so light as to be almost non-existent, is mind-bogglingly stupid. Not saying that's what happened here, just following up on some previous posts. In any event, yeah I agree that on a terminal tower it's pretty difficult to have an object strike if you track far enough out and pull low enough. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base428 1 #7 October 28, 2005 "BASE jumping is illegal in California". What a load of crap. It's time we tell these irresponsible reporters that they need to do some research before they falsely report that BASE is illegal. I just got off the phone with Life Magazine for a story about Bridge Day where I demanded they change the same type of false verbage.(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cornishe 0 #8 October 28, 2005 Quote"BASE jumping is illegal in California". I just email the author, [email protected], about this. Has anyone else? .Abbie Mashaal Skydive Idaho Snake River Skydiving TandemBASE Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #9 October 28, 2005 I mentioned this in the bonfire thread, but this particular site, like a few others across the U.S. is posted with signage that says, "No Parachuting by Law." (Or at least it was the last time I was there). There is also a certain R/R bridge in Texas that's posted likewise. I believe these are local ordinances, but none the less . . . NickD BASE 194 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZegeunerLeben 0 #10 October 28, 2005 >>Hey Tom, looks like John is giving you a run for your money for the worst BASE saftey record! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #11 October 28, 2005 Details are still sketchy, but it sounds as if he was climbing, didn't reach the top, and exited from somewhere lower. Wind was apparently not a factor (light to non-existent), and he had an offheading, resulting in wire strike.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MB38 0 #12 October 28, 2005 This video report is terrible. I love it when reporters shape the facts to fit their story.I really don't know what I'm talking about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #13 October 28, 2005 >>This video report is terrible. << Oh gawd, that was so bad. But, they were doing it on the "fly" so to speak and it stands as a lesson for everything else you hear on the news . . . One question I have is about them saying, "they even have their own magazine devoted to BASE jumping . . ." Gee, I'd subscribe to that . . . LOL! NickD BASE 194 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Loonix 0 #14 October 29, 2005 thats what "news" is generally like in america? its simply sickening. They turn some persons misery into some kind of show... (not to mention all the things said that are simply wrong) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
434 2 #15 October 29, 2005 Have you guys any contact for media, police or rescue when there are necessary? It could be helpful to get the correct information out there when needed. It is maybe not that easy, but still they need to be educated what we are doing, and why we are doing it! Explain why things are going wrong, and how it could have been, if you got more legal access to other sites! People only remember big headlines, and an explanation the week after, is not that impressive, as an excited news reporter, onsite live telling BS. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base428 1 #16 October 29, 2005 I also emailed the author and he changed the webpage. In addition, I complained to channel 13 about the "illegal in California" comment on TV and asked for a correction. Sometimes firing off a quick email actually works. The real problem I see is the perpetuation of our sport being illegal. I'll never forget the day when some out-of-towners hassled me at the Potato Bridge and threatened to call the cops on me for jumping. The media is very powerful and if we don't correct them, nothing will change. QuoteI just email the author, [email protected], about this. Has anyone else?.(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nicrussell 0 #17 October 29, 2005 QuoteI. I'll never forget the day when some out-of-towners hassled me at the Potato Bridge and threatened to call the cops on me for jumping. reply] I dont think I will ever understand the Nark complex. why would people get so involved in something that really doesnt concern them, or have any possiblity of causing them harm. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RhondaLea 3 #18 October 29, 2005 QuoteI dont think I will ever understand the Nark complex. why would people get so involved in something that really doesnt concern them, or have any possiblity of causing them harm. It's human nature. Those who have little or no self-control try instead to control that which is outside themselves. rl Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. C.S. Lewis Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TowerTopper 0 #19 October 29, 2005 The scary part I saw in the report is that the first responders had no clue how to get him down, their equipment was inadiquit. and a helo was unrealisitic, then they finally figured out a rope rescue, if you hang long enough in a harness you'll black out due to constriction, If you get stuck, give me a call, Vince Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Feeblemind 1 #20 October 29, 2005 QuoteThe scary part I saw in the report is that the first responders had no clue how to get him down, their equipment was inadiquit. and a helo was unrealisitic, then they finally figured out a rope rescue, if you hang long enough in a harness you'll black out due to constriction, If you get stuck, give me a call, Vince Tower, I am rather insulted by you cavalier attitude that the rescuers did not have a clue on how to get him down and the equipment we use is not adequate. As a matter of fact I find your comment both ignorant and arrogant. There were actually several plans, but deciding on the one that would not cost a firefighter his life to rescue someone that should have never been in this type of situation anyway. Let’s put some facts into play: "If you hang long enough in a harness you'll black out due to constriction" Well he made a choice to jump, were not gonna rush and get killed due to his poor judgment. 1) Its night time, this makes the use of helicopters almost non-existent due to the lack of lighting. 2) He is only 200 feet off of the ground on the middle guy wire of that series of three wires. This tower is 2,000 feet tall and there are many other guy wires supporting the tower above. Helicopters do not carry un-limited cable to wench with. 3) He is only 200 feet from the ground, but several hundred feet from the tower. 4) Walnut-grove/Sacramento is an urban area. As a general rule we can perform rope rescue with our ropes. This is not a mountain area that requires rescue companies to carry thousands of feet expensive rope to rescue climbers or other victims trapped on a cliff. 5) Again 200 feet in the air. Ladder truck only reaches 105 feet. I don't have time or the energy to explain why the trucks don't have bigger ladders. So in the future before you pipe off at the yap you might want to take into consideration the fire departments concerns. Mr. Agnos was performing an illegal and risky BASE jump. The fire department is trying to perform a "SAFE" rescue. You need to have some consideration for the firefighters that risk their lives everyday for normal operations. This is an extreme situation and the firefighter had to free climb the guy wire with sufficient rope to lower to rescuers on the ground (rope and hardware is not light), drop the rope he carried to rescuers below, hand over hand the additional equipment to where they were, rig the lowering system and then affect the rescue. I am not a BASE jumper, but you all choose to take these risks. When things go wrong you then put others in high risk situations. Yes we chose the profession, but we are going to make sure we perform our operations in a safe manner. Fire Safety Tip: Don't fry bacon while naked Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TowerTopper 0 #21 October 29, 2005 It's been my experience that most fire departments are not trained or have equipment to preform such a rescue. I think that I can have a cavalier attitude about this, I have in the past had to preform a similar kind of rescue with my own rigging after calling 911 to get someone injured off a tower @ 385', another time we where called to a site to help with a recovery @ 160 after a mishap, we ended up having the guys work buddy's do that also while the fire department more or less watched and learned. I know of many other incidents where this is the case also. I could of had him down with my own "in house crew" or even a group of BASE friends in less than a hour, and I wouldn't of had to break out my big winches or put anyone in harms way. I was just giving my thoughts on the interview clip I saw. That must have been you doing that interview? Sorry I stepped on your feelings after your 15 minutes of glory. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JaapSuter 0 #22 October 29, 2005 Quote...first responders had no clue how to get him down, their equipment was inadiquit. and a helo was unrealisitic I always feel that the second my feet leave the edge, I lose all rights to comment on the quality of a rescue operation. Maybe there are people out there that could have done a better job at it, but in this case that weren't the people who are willing to be on call 24 hours a day, risking their lives for a below average wage. There is only so much we can ask from our fire-fighters and EMTs, and I think their time training is better spend on common traffic accidents and kitchen injuries than on the rare occurence of a BASE jumper stuck on a wire. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 25 #23 October 29, 2005 All, Remember that TowerTopper is a professional in the tower construction field. When he says "call me" he may not mean "call your average BASE jumper." It's more likely he is speaking from a professional standpoint, and pointing out that tower professionals are experienced and practiced at these kind of situations. Seen in that light, it's pretty reasonable to say "the fire department probably should have called in some tower professionals who had experience at these kinds of situations."-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cornishe 0 #24 October 29, 2005 QuoteI always feel that the second my feet leave the edge, I lose all rights to comment on the quality of a rescue operation. Amen. It kind of takes the sport out of it, if you can rely in the back of your mind that someone else will take care of you. QuoteI think their time training is better spend on common traffic accidents and kitchen injuries than on the rare occurence of a BASE jumper stuck on a wire. In fact, if my tax money went to specific BASE jumper rescue training, that'd be unfair to the community in which I live and share a pool tax funded services with. .Abbie Mashaal Skydive Idaho Snake River Skydiving TandemBASE Share this post Link to post Share on other sites eb66to77 0 #25 October 29, 2005 Clicky This has been done before. The rescue guys worked their asses of to get him down. The final answer to the "get him down" dilema came from the boss of "the hanger", not the Fire Department. For mainstream rescue workers this does NOT fit into standard rescue practice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 0
RhondaLea 3 #18 October 29, 2005 QuoteI dont think I will ever understand the Nark complex. why would people get so involved in something that really doesnt concern them, or have any possiblity of causing them harm. It's human nature. Those who have little or no self-control try instead to control that which is outside themselves. rl Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. C.S. Lewis Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TowerTopper 0 #19 October 29, 2005 The scary part I saw in the report is that the first responders had no clue how to get him down, their equipment was inadiquit. and a helo was unrealisitic, then they finally figured out a rope rescue, if you hang long enough in a harness you'll black out due to constriction, If you get stuck, give me a call, Vince Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Feeblemind 1 #20 October 29, 2005 QuoteThe scary part I saw in the report is that the first responders had no clue how to get him down, their equipment was inadiquit. and a helo was unrealisitic, then they finally figured out a rope rescue, if you hang long enough in a harness you'll black out due to constriction, If you get stuck, give me a call, Vince Tower, I am rather insulted by you cavalier attitude that the rescuers did not have a clue on how to get him down and the equipment we use is not adequate. As a matter of fact I find your comment both ignorant and arrogant. There were actually several plans, but deciding on the one that would not cost a firefighter his life to rescue someone that should have never been in this type of situation anyway. Let’s put some facts into play: "If you hang long enough in a harness you'll black out due to constriction" Well he made a choice to jump, were not gonna rush and get killed due to his poor judgment. 1) Its night time, this makes the use of helicopters almost non-existent due to the lack of lighting. 2) He is only 200 feet off of the ground on the middle guy wire of that series of three wires. This tower is 2,000 feet tall and there are many other guy wires supporting the tower above. Helicopters do not carry un-limited cable to wench with. 3) He is only 200 feet from the ground, but several hundred feet from the tower. 4) Walnut-grove/Sacramento is an urban area. As a general rule we can perform rope rescue with our ropes. This is not a mountain area that requires rescue companies to carry thousands of feet expensive rope to rescue climbers or other victims trapped on a cliff. 5) Again 200 feet in the air. Ladder truck only reaches 105 feet. I don't have time or the energy to explain why the trucks don't have bigger ladders. So in the future before you pipe off at the yap you might want to take into consideration the fire departments concerns. Mr. Agnos was performing an illegal and risky BASE jump. The fire department is trying to perform a "SAFE" rescue. You need to have some consideration for the firefighters that risk their lives everyday for normal operations. This is an extreme situation and the firefighter had to free climb the guy wire with sufficient rope to lower to rescuers on the ground (rope and hardware is not light), drop the rope he carried to rescuers below, hand over hand the additional equipment to where they were, rig the lowering system and then affect the rescue. I am not a BASE jumper, but you all choose to take these risks. When things go wrong you then put others in high risk situations. Yes we chose the profession, but we are going to make sure we perform our operations in a safe manner. Fire Safety Tip: Don't fry bacon while naked Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TowerTopper 0 #21 October 29, 2005 It's been my experience that most fire departments are not trained or have equipment to preform such a rescue. I think that I can have a cavalier attitude about this, I have in the past had to preform a similar kind of rescue with my own rigging after calling 911 to get someone injured off a tower @ 385', another time we where called to a site to help with a recovery @ 160 after a mishap, we ended up having the guys work buddy's do that also while the fire department more or less watched and learned. I know of many other incidents where this is the case also. I could of had him down with my own "in house crew" or even a group of BASE friends in less than a hour, and I wouldn't of had to break out my big winches or put anyone in harms way. I was just giving my thoughts on the interview clip I saw. That must have been you doing that interview? Sorry I stepped on your feelings after your 15 minutes of glory. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JaapSuter 0 #22 October 29, 2005 Quote...first responders had no clue how to get him down, their equipment was inadiquit. and a helo was unrealisitic I always feel that the second my feet leave the edge, I lose all rights to comment on the quality of a rescue operation. Maybe there are people out there that could have done a better job at it, but in this case that weren't the people who are willing to be on call 24 hours a day, risking their lives for a below average wage. There is only so much we can ask from our fire-fighters and EMTs, and I think their time training is better spend on common traffic accidents and kitchen injuries than on the rare occurence of a BASE jumper stuck on a wire. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #23 October 29, 2005 All, Remember that TowerTopper is a professional in the tower construction field. When he says "call me" he may not mean "call your average BASE jumper." It's more likely he is speaking from a professional standpoint, and pointing out that tower professionals are experienced and practiced at these kind of situations. Seen in that light, it's pretty reasonable to say "the fire department probably should have called in some tower professionals who had experience at these kinds of situations."-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cornishe 0 #24 October 29, 2005 QuoteI always feel that the second my feet leave the edge, I lose all rights to comment on the quality of a rescue operation. Amen. It kind of takes the sport out of it, if you can rely in the back of your mind that someone else will take care of you. QuoteI think their time training is better spend on common traffic accidents and kitchen injuries than on the rare occurence of a BASE jumper stuck on a wire. In fact, if my tax money went to specific BASE jumper rescue training, that'd be unfair to the community in which I live and share a pool tax funded services with. .Abbie Mashaal Skydive Idaho Snake River Skydiving TandemBASE Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eb66to77 0 #25 October 29, 2005 Clicky This has been done before. The rescue guys worked their asses of to get him down. The final answer to the "get him down" dilema came from the boss of "the hanger", not the Fire Department. For mainstream rescue workers this does NOT fit into standard rescue practice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
