Thijs 0 #1 July 16, 2005 In a few weeks from now I will hopefully start with static line course in skydiving. As I'm interested in base my main focus will probably be training skills for base in skydiving after I completed my course. This made me think how the relationship between skydiving and basejumping is for basejumpers. Did you start skydiving for basejumping, or did base find you only after you started skydiving. Do you skydive 'actively' or is skydiving only an environment to test techniques out or to train your skills in a safer environment? If you did start skydiving with base as a clear goal in mind, what kind of reactions did you get at your dropzone? I've always wanted to skydive, but there was no real hurry in the matter. 5 years or so ago, skydiving was something I wanted to do once or so after I got a job and was happely married or so. I knew what basejumping was, but had no intention to do it (it was just crazy for me, at that point). My interest in base started something like little more then three years ago, after seeing a docu and when I started to search more about the sport. Things and circumstances feeded my interest in skydiving and certainly in base. It defenitly went with ups and downs, times where I said 'I'm not going to do that', and time where if someone would have given me a rig and drove me to an object, I would have jumped off. So, another question, how did you came in contact with base? And what were the reasons for you to start jumping, if there were any? Thijs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites op5e 0 #2 July 17, 2005 I have no intention to bring up at my DZ, the fact that I plan to BASE in the distant future. When I start skydiving again I will just happen to practice tracking, accuracy and CRW a bit more than most. Plus someone got me hooked on the thought of CRW so I probably will be doing this more than I ever thought I would at sub 300 jumps. Eventually I will probably buy a BASE rig and practice jumps from height with this on my container, but until then BASE is a distant goal, but I will keep it in mind for my skydiving progression. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cesslon 0 #3 July 18, 2005 HI Thijs Have you read TOM or Dwains articles about wanting to get into BASE? First of all I'll say no need to rush, skydiving should be able to hold your attention for a fair while, I loved my 3 jumps Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NickDG 23 #4 July 18, 2005 Yes, until you know who's who and what's what on whatever drop zone you go to keep the desire to BASE jump to yourself. Think of it like your first lesson in BASE security and secret keeping. And, it's not for nothing. Chances are you'll have a non-BASE jumping skydiving Instructor who might lose enthusiasm after you mention, "I'm just getting this outta the way, so I can BASE jump!" In the meantime you can talk about BASE jumping here with us. You might even meet someone from a local crew on this forum before you know them on your DZ. Many have done what you are doing, and some find skydiving cool enough and never make a BASE jump, some put BASE off for years, and some make X number of skydives, take a BASE course, and never set foot on a DZ again. Point to Point, first skydive to first BASE jump, has always been variable depending on what sort you are and who you hook up with. If you haven't seen it yet, start educating yourself here. http://www.basefatalities.info/ You won't understand it all just yet, but sometimes in BASE jumping it's better to bring education to the experience rather than the other way around . . . NickD BASE 194 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JaapSuter 0 #5 July 18, 2005 QuoteYes, until you know who's who and what's what on whatever drop zone you go to keep the desire to BASE jump to yourself. I'd agree. Until you are a comfortable solo skydiver don't mention it. The only BASE specific thing you could focus on, without mentioning it, is accuracy and riser-control. Also, once you pack yourself and you're not jumping with an instructor anymore, nobody will stop you from packing intentional line-twist and toggle releases. Of course, I would never advocate actually doing these things. Caveat emptor. Then, once you have about fourty to fifty jumps and you are still thinking about getting into BASE, you can drop the word. This will provide a background for discussions about doing some intentional downwinders, riser only landings and ultra low approaches. The kind of things you need to talk to others about first, otherwise the downwinder can turn into a collision and the riser landing can turn into panic when they see your steering lines dangle (on an LRM). Admittedly, all of those techniques would be equally useful for non BASE jumpers, but it seems that the skydiving curriculum doesn't focus on these kind of things anymore given the number of landing incidents occuring these days. Having said all that, forget everything about BASE for now, enjoy the course, approach it as a skydiver, suck up as much information as you possibly can, and then start thinking about BASE again when the time is right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites L_M 0 #6 July 18, 2005 Hey Thijs, Leslie here :) Just saying that it's very helpful to read all this it gives me more insight on your point of view. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tyrion 0 #7 July 19, 2005 Hiya Thijs, I'm in nearly exactly the same position as you. I've been lurking around for a while just absorbing information, reading/watching everything I can get my hands on, and saving the cash for my AFF, rigs, etc. I'm starting skydiving for the purposes of to getting into BASE, but understand that I need to do it slowly and carefully. BASE will always be around, so there's no hurry, and no need to share your desires with those who may not be interested in helping you achieve your goals! I'm from Sydney, not sure where abouts you're from, but i'm sure we'll meet some time soon in the Aussie Skydiving/BASE scene! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Thijs 0 #8 July 19, 2005 QuoteQuoteYes, until you know who's who and what's what on whatever drop zone you go to keep the desire to BASE jump to yourself. I'd agree. Until you are a comfortable solo skydiver don't mention it. The only BASE specific thing you could focus on, without mentioning it, is accuracy and riser-control. I fear that it might leak out or come to their attention pretty soon (if it already didn't). I have for the moment no real interest in RW or in Freefly, which are the most performed skydive disciplines right now. If I mainly focus on accuracy, canopy control and tracking, I think it will become pretty much obvious (at least for the basejumpers themself) what my real intentions are (gee, it sounds like I'm a criminel ) . To L_M: Thanks, and congrats on your AFF-1. So you and eli, keep your mouths shut . To Tyrion: I live in Belgium, quite far from Aussieland, but who knows, sometime... I'll guess I'll find it out all along the way Thanks everyone for the replies. Thijs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JaapSuter 0 #9 July 19, 2005 QuoteI have for the moment no real interest in RW or in Freefly Both of those are great for developing spatial, relative and body awareness. Not to mention, they are a lot of fun too. Give them a try, you might just find out how much fun skydiving can be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites leroydb 0 #10 July 19, 2005 I definatley agree with jaap on this one. freeflying and even RW will help you in some ways if you funk and exit up... wouldnt want to have to learn those skills on a BASE jump...Leroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Thijs 0 #11 July 19, 2005 Quote freeflying and even RW will help you in some ways if you funk and exit up... wouldnt want to have to learn those skills on a BASE jump... I thaughed that base was subterminal, while freefly is at terminal? Can freefly techniques help to recover an fucked up exit? If we leave terminal walls out of it ofcourse. Thijs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JaapSuter 0 #12 July 19, 2005 QuoteI thought that base was subterminal, while freefly is at terminal? Granted, if you go headlow during the first three seconds of your exit, being a freefly headdown pro is not going to help you much, whereas being a platform diver might do you some good. Nevertheless, any sort of exercise that makes your body more familiar with being relative in all three dimensions and randomly oriented around all three axis is not going to hurt your BASE jumping. Focus on canopy skills, but if you have some freefall time to play with, you might as well vary your time in the air beyond tracking jumps. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NickDG 23 #13 July 19, 2005 Every skydive, no matter the type and from the very first one, will add to your air awareness. To get air aware you'll need to go from flailing, groping, blind man to flying, dexterous, focused man. And yes . . . giggle . . . even RW will help . . . NickD BASE 194 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wwarped 0 #14 July 19, 2005 QuoteI have for the moment no real interest in RW or in Freefly, I've heard it call "dead air skills." the best skydivers function well from the get go. they don't wait to accelerate to terminal velocity. and when you jump with others, you get visual cues to assess how well you are doing. once you think you're good from a slow flying Cessna, try a balloon jump. then try a helicopter jump with the rotorwash hitting your back... how can it not add to the safety of a BASE exit? DON'T PANIC The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jamostar 0 #15 July 20, 2005 This is the scariest thread I've ever seen.Sig lines are so stupid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Thijs 0 #16 July 20, 2005 QuoteThis is the scariest thread I've ever seen. Can you also explain why? I don't really see how this thread can be scary? With real interest in rw or in freefly, I meant more or less training in a team or so. I'm pretty sure I'll do some of both, if only to get some body awareness. Thijs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JFK 0 #17 July 20, 2005 One thing at a time, Get into skydiving first dude And then you'll know what you enjoy doing Jul. PS: Jamostar.. useless comment :)JFK #1013 PM Me No Adrenalin.... No Fun! "Minds are like parachutes the Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JaapSuter 0 #18 July 20, 2005 QuoteThis is the scariest thread I've ever seen. Please elaborate... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jamostar 0 #19 July 20, 2005 Warning: Highly Opinionated Post Getting into skydiving in order to do something else i.e. BASE, is an inherently flawed mindset. Skydive to experience skydiving. If you are "waiting" for some arbitrary jump number, skill sets, or experience level to make it o.k. to BASE then you haven't been 100% focused on learning the skill you're practicing. Becoming a very good skydiver who is well-rounded with lots and lots and lots and lots of jumps doesn't mean you should start BASE. If you are starting to think about base jumping around 50-60 jumps like so many other people then you are unfocused. If you can't completely immerse yourself in what your learning at the time, stay away from fixed objects. When people ask me the question "how many jumps do I need to BASE" I say when ever you feel ready+200+ an experience under canopy where you thought I better do something right now and it better be right or I'm definitely going to die. A good friend of mine asked if he could borrow my base rig to learn to BASE at the perrine. The person he was going with had less than 30 Base jumps off of 2 objects. Fucking Retard. Sure lots of people are saying "hey I started base when I only had X jumps and I'm alive" I sight Chris Rock " you can steer a car with your feet if you want to. . .that don't make it a good fucking idea!" My friend said "it was an opportunity, I couldn't pass up" Perhaps the worst mindset to get into base jumping. I'm not saying you're gonna go step off an object with only 300 skydives, but the general tone of this thread seemed to be encouraging a lack of discipline and "the fast track". To start saying what is the minimum level of preparedness or skill or whatever is the polar opposite of how good jumpers (sky or object) think. Move toward over-training, above and beyond the minimal. When you feel like you're way, way passed ready then you probably are ready. If you are completely immersed in skydiving then you will know when it's time and when you are ready. If you are not completely immersed in skydiving i.e. thinking what should I do to be ready for base, than you will never be ready. edit for spellingSig lines are so stupid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Thijs 0 #20 July 20, 2005 QuoteIf you are "waiting" for some arbitrary jump number, skill sets, or experience level to make it o.k. to BASE then you haven't been 100% focused on learning the skill you're practicing. Hmm, I would have the tendence to disagree on this matter. If you are for example wanting to be good at riserscontrol, you will focus more on this then normal skydivers I guess. If you need certain skills for base, and that is your goal, then you will focus more on those skills, not? QuoteBecoming a very good skydiver who is well-rounded with lots and lots and lots and lots of jumps doesn't mean you should start BASE. Agreed, but this is not the point here. I'm not stating that anyone who has the experience, should basejump. QuoteIf you are starting to think about base jumping around 50-60 jumps like so many other people then you are unfocused. If you can't completely immerse yourself in what your learning at the time, stay away from fixed objects. So, anyone who has an interest in base during their early skydive should basejump? I don't get your point really Is it possible that you mean that you shouldn't only focus on the things you can use, but also on useless things (in base then ofcourse)? Quote I'm not saying you're gonna go step off an object with only 300 skydives, but the general tone of this thread seemed to be encouraging a lack of discipline and "the fast track". I don't see that where I encourage a lack of discipline or starting fast with base? I started this thread just to see how frequently it happened that people started skydiving with the idea of ever doing fixed object jumping. Skydiving will probably scare the shit out of me, so it will take a long time before I get a bit comfortable. This thread seems to head a way I didn't intend it to go to Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JaapSuter 0 #21 July 20, 2005 QuoteThis thread seems to head a way I didn't intend it to go to Don't worry about it Thijs. There was a time when people had to make twenty mandatory jumps on round parachutes before they would be allowed on squares. Nowadays, everybody jumps squares. Regardless of whether that is a good idea or not, sports change and the people coming into them change. With the changing image of skydiving, and the media coverage of BASE jumps from tall cliffs in beatiful scenery we will only see more people that start skydiving with a sole interest to become a BASE jumper. In fact, I think that Tom Aiello started skydiving solely to get into BASE, and I think he turned out to be a moderately competent BASE jumper, haha. Welcome to the world of flight. Enjoy all its aspects while you can. Have many safe jumps and remember that patience rarely kills. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jamostar 0 #22 July 20, 2005 Well. . . I guess Tom's o.k.Sig lines are so stupid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NickDG 23 #23 July 20, 2005 One cool thing about BASE jumping is we are always experimenting and probably will never get to a point when we aren't trying new things. We are still exploring all aspects of this sport and one of them, how to start BASE jumping, has always been in flux. From 1978 to the late 1980s BASE jumping instruction is passed freely from person to person. Most BASE jumpers of the period are already fairly experienced skydivers before they start BASE jumping. There is no question about skydiving before BASE jumping. However, Bridge Day is open to anyone who wants to jump, and there are several cases of people making a first ever jump there. The wisdom of the day said skydiving before BASE backed up by folks like Ritchie S., who made a hundred BASE jumps before his first skydive, and he told people not to learn like he did. There are a few people building BASE rigs and pilot chutes, but these are still home and garage based operations. In 1987 large pilot chutes and longer bridles are being heavily suggested at Bridge Day after Steve Gyrsting towed his skydiving pilot chute to impact. When 1990 rolled around there are a few people calling themselves BASE outfitters. In some cases these folks offered guided trips with BASE gear and instruction included. Keith Jones (now serving in Iraq, see the current issue of SKYDIVING) is an early outfitter and so was Moe Viletto. In the early nineties the garage riggers like the Todd, Adam, and Dennis became Basic Research, Consolidated Rigging, and Gravity Sports Ltd. For the first time Todd found himself selling BASE rigs, and now BASE canopies, to people he didn’t know. Adam worried about it saying BASE rigs are loaded guns and soon all three are offering some form of basic BASE jumping instruction. By 1995 large pilot chutes and longer bridles are mandatory at Bridge Day and fifty previous parachute jumps are required. In 1996 Bill Von wrote the definitive Bridge Day FAQ and its here http://www.afn.org/skydive/skydive/usenet/1996/aug/0520.html where he suggested 100 previous jumps were better. The BASE manufactures are using 150 before selling gear. In the late 90s the number starts to grow and 250 is heard a lot and some people are saying even more should be added. So now here we are still in the infancy of BASE jumping instruction and still experimenting. The stand alone BASE courses are still few and far between. I do believe that the better we get at teaching BASE the more we can shave off the previous jump number. When they started teaching the three-hour first jump skydiving static line course it was called dangerous and mad as every one knew you had to attend weeks of Army training in order to jump. When Ritchie said not to learn the way he did it was a different sport. I'm not saying I'm for Death Camp, but it could head closer to that if we taught BASE well enough. When Paragliding first appeared here in the United States I thought without skydiving experience those people aren't going to last long. I was thinking wuffos just flying around willy nilly. But, look at how good they got and all on their own. I think we are closer to growing our own then we've ever been. All we need is a sympathetic DZ to let us offer a pre-BASE skydiving course. A seamless one on one course from first skydive to first BASE jump and all with the same instructor. A Perris/Potato course of instruction would sell like hotcakes. . . "Hey Tom, another batch coming in on the noon plane, watch out for the loud kid and the old guy, but the rest are good to go." NickD BASE 194 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rpersi 0 #24 July 21, 2005 I am with jamostar on this one. Has anyone missed the fact this person has not even gone through the static line course and is hell bent on getting BASE? After reading your comments, what is your motivation why you want to get this? I'm not trying to be a jerk but do a poll on the EXPERIENCED people who frequent this board and ask them how friends have been lost and bones broken in this sport. You have no experience, little or no training, and have no idea what kind of skydiver you will be let alone be able to take it to the next level such as BASE. Don't trick yourself into thinking I have XX amount of jumps so now I can start trying a hand a BASE. That mindset is an accident waiting to happen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RhondaLea 4 #25 July 21, 2005 ...whatever happened to rational anarchy? My question is this: What is that odd psychological quirk that allows us to make rules for others even as we declare our personal freedom from rules? My next question is: And what's that bit about personal responsibility? The way I figure, we all have the absolute right to choose our own path through life to death. But each and every time someone elects a road that deviates from the common wisdom, all hell breaks loose. On this board, of all places. It just boggles the imagination. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 0 Go To Topic Listing
op5e 0 #2 July 17, 2005 I have no intention to bring up at my DZ, the fact that I plan to BASE in the distant future. When I start skydiving again I will just happen to practice tracking, accuracy and CRW a bit more than most. Plus someone got me hooked on the thought of CRW so I probably will be doing this more than I ever thought I would at sub 300 jumps. Eventually I will probably buy a BASE rig and practice jumps from height with this on my container, but until then BASE is a distant goal, but I will keep it in mind for my skydiving progression. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cesslon 0 #3 July 18, 2005 HI Thijs Have you read TOM or Dwains articles about wanting to get into BASE? First of all I'll say no need to rush, skydiving should be able to hold your attention for a fair while, I loved my 3 jumps Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #4 July 18, 2005 Yes, until you know who's who and what's what on whatever drop zone you go to keep the desire to BASE jump to yourself. Think of it like your first lesson in BASE security and secret keeping. And, it's not for nothing. Chances are you'll have a non-BASE jumping skydiving Instructor who might lose enthusiasm after you mention, "I'm just getting this outta the way, so I can BASE jump!" In the meantime you can talk about BASE jumping here with us. You might even meet someone from a local crew on this forum before you know them on your DZ. Many have done what you are doing, and some find skydiving cool enough and never make a BASE jump, some put BASE off for years, and some make X number of skydives, take a BASE course, and never set foot on a DZ again. Point to Point, first skydive to first BASE jump, has always been variable depending on what sort you are and who you hook up with. If you haven't seen it yet, start educating yourself here. http://www.basefatalities.info/ You won't understand it all just yet, but sometimes in BASE jumping it's better to bring education to the experience rather than the other way around . . . NickD BASE 194 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JaapSuter 0 #5 July 18, 2005 QuoteYes, until you know who's who and what's what on whatever drop zone you go to keep the desire to BASE jump to yourself. I'd agree. Until you are a comfortable solo skydiver don't mention it. The only BASE specific thing you could focus on, without mentioning it, is accuracy and riser-control. Also, once you pack yourself and you're not jumping with an instructor anymore, nobody will stop you from packing intentional line-twist and toggle releases. Of course, I would never advocate actually doing these things. Caveat emptor. Then, once you have about fourty to fifty jumps and you are still thinking about getting into BASE, you can drop the word. This will provide a background for discussions about doing some intentional downwinders, riser only landings and ultra low approaches. The kind of things you need to talk to others about first, otherwise the downwinder can turn into a collision and the riser landing can turn into panic when they see your steering lines dangle (on an LRM). Admittedly, all of those techniques would be equally useful for non BASE jumpers, but it seems that the skydiving curriculum doesn't focus on these kind of things anymore given the number of landing incidents occuring these days. Having said all that, forget everything about BASE for now, enjoy the course, approach it as a skydiver, suck up as much information as you possibly can, and then start thinking about BASE again when the time is right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
L_M 0 #6 July 18, 2005 Hey Thijs, Leslie here :) Just saying that it's very helpful to read all this it gives me more insight on your point of view. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tyrion 0 #7 July 19, 2005 Hiya Thijs, I'm in nearly exactly the same position as you. I've been lurking around for a while just absorbing information, reading/watching everything I can get my hands on, and saving the cash for my AFF, rigs, etc. I'm starting skydiving for the purposes of to getting into BASE, but understand that I need to do it slowly and carefully. BASE will always be around, so there's no hurry, and no need to share your desires with those who may not be interested in helping you achieve your goals! I'm from Sydney, not sure where abouts you're from, but i'm sure we'll meet some time soon in the Aussie Skydiving/BASE scene! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thijs 0 #8 July 19, 2005 QuoteQuoteYes, until you know who's who and what's what on whatever drop zone you go to keep the desire to BASE jump to yourself. I'd agree. Until you are a comfortable solo skydiver don't mention it. The only BASE specific thing you could focus on, without mentioning it, is accuracy and riser-control. I fear that it might leak out or come to their attention pretty soon (if it already didn't). I have for the moment no real interest in RW or in Freefly, which are the most performed skydive disciplines right now. If I mainly focus on accuracy, canopy control and tracking, I think it will become pretty much obvious (at least for the basejumpers themself) what my real intentions are (gee, it sounds like I'm a criminel ) . To L_M: Thanks, and congrats on your AFF-1. So you and eli, keep your mouths shut . To Tyrion: I live in Belgium, quite far from Aussieland, but who knows, sometime... I'll guess I'll find it out all along the way Thanks everyone for the replies. Thijs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JaapSuter 0 #9 July 19, 2005 QuoteI have for the moment no real interest in RW or in Freefly Both of those are great for developing spatial, relative and body awareness. Not to mention, they are a lot of fun too. Give them a try, you might just find out how much fun skydiving can be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #10 July 19, 2005 I definatley agree with jaap on this one. freeflying and even RW will help you in some ways if you funk and exit up... wouldnt want to have to learn those skills on a BASE jump...Leroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thijs 0 #11 July 19, 2005 Quote freeflying and even RW will help you in some ways if you funk and exit up... wouldnt want to have to learn those skills on a BASE jump... I thaughed that base was subterminal, while freefly is at terminal? Can freefly techniques help to recover an fucked up exit? If we leave terminal walls out of it ofcourse. Thijs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JaapSuter 0 #12 July 19, 2005 QuoteI thought that base was subterminal, while freefly is at terminal? Granted, if you go headlow during the first three seconds of your exit, being a freefly headdown pro is not going to help you much, whereas being a platform diver might do you some good. Nevertheless, any sort of exercise that makes your body more familiar with being relative in all three dimensions and randomly oriented around all three axis is not going to hurt your BASE jumping. Focus on canopy skills, but if you have some freefall time to play with, you might as well vary your time in the air beyond tracking jumps. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #13 July 19, 2005 Every skydive, no matter the type and from the very first one, will add to your air awareness. To get air aware you'll need to go from flailing, groping, blind man to flying, dexterous, focused man. And yes . . . giggle . . . even RW will help . . . NickD BASE 194 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wwarped 0 #14 July 19, 2005 QuoteI have for the moment no real interest in RW or in Freefly, I've heard it call "dead air skills." the best skydivers function well from the get go. they don't wait to accelerate to terminal velocity. and when you jump with others, you get visual cues to assess how well you are doing. once you think you're good from a slow flying Cessna, try a balloon jump. then try a helicopter jump with the rotorwash hitting your back... how can it not add to the safety of a BASE exit? DON'T PANIC The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jamostar 0 #15 July 20, 2005 This is the scariest thread I've ever seen.Sig lines are so stupid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thijs 0 #16 July 20, 2005 QuoteThis is the scariest thread I've ever seen. Can you also explain why? I don't really see how this thread can be scary? With real interest in rw or in freefly, I meant more or less training in a team or so. I'm pretty sure I'll do some of both, if only to get some body awareness. Thijs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JFK 0 #17 July 20, 2005 One thing at a time, Get into skydiving first dude And then you'll know what you enjoy doing Jul. PS: Jamostar.. useless comment :)JFK #1013 PM Me No Adrenalin.... No Fun! "Minds are like parachutes the Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JaapSuter 0 #18 July 20, 2005 QuoteThis is the scariest thread I've ever seen. Please elaborate... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jamostar 0 #19 July 20, 2005 Warning: Highly Opinionated Post Getting into skydiving in order to do something else i.e. BASE, is an inherently flawed mindset. Skydive to experience skydiving. If you are "waiting" for some arbitrary jump number, skill sets, or experience level to make it o.k. to BASE then you haven't been 100% focused on learning the skill you're practicing. Becoming a very good skydiver who is well-rounded with lots and lots and lots and lots of jumps doesn't mean you should start BASE. If you are starting to think about base jumping around 50-60 jumps like so many other people then you are unfocused. If you can't completely immerse yourself in what your learning at the time, stay away from fixed objects. When people ask me the question "how many jumps do I need to BASE" I say when ever you feel ready+200+ an experience under canopy where you thought I better do something right now and it better be right or I'm definitely going to die. A good friend of mine asked if he could borrow my base rig to learn to BASE at the perrine. The person he was going with had less than 30 Base jumps off of 2 objects. Fucking Retard. Sure lots of people are saying "hey I started base when I only had X jumps and I'm alive" I sight Chris Rock " you can steer a car with your feet if you want to. . .that don't make it a good fucking idea!" My friend said "it was an opportunity, I couldn't pass up" Perhaps the worst mindset to get into base jumping. I'm not saying you're gonna go step off an object with only 300 skydives, but the general tone of this thread seemed to be encouraging a lack of discipline and "the fast track". To start saying what is the minimum level of preparedness or skill or whatever is the polar opposite of how good jumpers (sky or object) think. Move toward over-training, above and beyond the minimal. When you feel like you're way, way passed ready then you probably are ready. If you are completely immersed in skydiving then you will know when it's time and when you are ready. If you are not completely immersed in skydiving i.e. thinking what should I do to be ready for base, than you will never be ready. edit for spellingSig lines are so stupid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thijs 0 #20 July 20, 2005 QuoteIf you are "waiting" for some arbitrary jump number, skill sets, or experience level to make it o.k. to BASE then you haven't been 100% focused on learning the skill you're practicing. Hmm, I would have the tendence to disagree on this matter. If you are for example wanting to be good at riserscontrol, you will focus more on this then normal skydivers I guess. If you need certain skills for base, and that is your goal, then you will focus more on those skills, not? QuoteBecoming a very good skydiver who is well-rounded with lots and lots and lots and lots of jumps doesn't mean you should start BASE. Agreed, but this is not the point here. I'm not stating that anyone who has the experience, should basejump. QuoteIf you are starting to think about base jumping around 50-60 jumps like so many other people then you are unfocused. If you can't completely immerse yourself in what your learning at the time, stay away from fixed objects. So, anyone who has an interest in base during their early skydive should basejump? I don't get your point really Is it possible that you mean that you shouldn't only focus on the things you can use, but also on useless things (in base then ofcourse)? Quote I'm not saying you're gonna go step off an object with only 300 skydives, but the general tone of this thread seemed to be encouraging a lack of discipline and "the fast track". I don't see that where I encourage a lack of discipline or starting fast with base? I started this thread just to see how frequently it happened that people started skydiving with the idea of ever doing fixed object jumping. Skydiving will probably scare the shit out of me, so it will take a long time before I get a bit comfortable. This thread seems to head a way I didn't intend it to go to Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JaapSuter 0 #21 July 20, 2005 QuoteThis thread seems to head a way I didn't intend it to go to Don't worry about it Thijs. There was a time when people had to make twenty mandatory jumps on round parachutes before they would be allowed on squares. Nowadays, everybody jumps squares. Regardless of whether that is a good idea or not, sports change and the people coming into them change. With the changing image of skydiving, and the media coverage of BASE jumps from tall cliffs in beatiful scenery we will only see more people that start skydiving with a sole interest to become a BASE jumper. In fact, I think that Tom Aiello started skydiving solely to get into BASE, and I think he turned out to be a moderately competent BASE jumper, haha. Welcome to the world of flight. Enjoy all its aspects while you can. Have many safe jumps and remember that patience rarely kills. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jamostar 0 #22 July 20, 2005 Well. . . I guess Tom's o.k.Sig lines are so stupid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NickDG 23 #23 July 20, 2005 One cool thing about BASE jumping is we are always experimenting and probably will never get to a point when we aren't trying new things. We are still exploring all aspects of this sport and one of them, how to start BASE jumping, has always been in flux. From 1978 to the late 1980s BASE jumping instruction is passed freely from person to person. Most BASE jumpers of the period are already fairly experienced skydivers before they start BASE jumping. There is no question about skydiving before BASE jumping. However, Bridge Day is open to anyone who wants to jump, and there are several cases of people making a first ever jump there. The wisdom of the day said skydiving before BASE backed up by folks like Ritchie S., who made a hundred BASE jumps before his first skydive, and he told people not to learn like he did. There are a few people building BASE rigs and pilot chutes, but these are still home and garage based operations. In 1987 large pilot chutes and longer bridles are being heavily suggested at Bridge Day after Steve Gyrsting towed his skydiving pilot chute to impact. When 1990 rolled around there are a few people calling themselves BASE outfitters. In some cases these folks offered guided trips with BASE gear and instruction included. Keith Jones (now serving in Iraq, see the current issue of SKYDIVING) is an early outfitter and so was Moe Viletto. In the early nineties the garage riggers like the Todd, Adam, and Dennis became Basic Research, Consolidated Rigging, and Gravity Sports Ltd. For the first time Todd found himself selling BASE rigs, and now BASE canopies, to people he didn’t know. Adam worried about it saying BASE rigs are loaded guns and soon all three are offering some form of basic BASE jumping instruction. By 1995 large pilot chutes and longer bridles are mandatory at Bridge Day and fifty previous parachute jumps are required. In 1996 Bill Von wrote the definitive Bridge Day FAQ and its here http://www.afn.org/skydive/skydive/usenet/1996/aug/0520.html where he suggested 100 previous jumps were better. The BASE manufactures are using 150 before selling gear. In the late 90s the number starts to grow and 250 is heard a lot and some people are saying even more should be added. So now here we are still in the infancy of BASE jumping instruction and still experimenting. The stand alone BASE courses are still few and far between. I do believe that the better we get at teaching BASE the more we can shave off the previous jump number. When they started teaching the three-hour first jump skydiving static line course it was called dangerous and mad as every one knew you had to attend weeks of Army training in order to jump. When Ritchie said not to learn the way he did it was a different sport. I'm not saying I'm for Death Camp, but it could head closer to that if we taught BASE well enough. When Paragliding first appeared here in the United States I thought without skydiving experience those people aren't going to last long. I was thinking wuffos just flying around willy nilly. But, look at how good they got and all on their own. I think we are closer to growing our own then we've ever been. All we need is a sympathetic DZ to let us offer a pre-BASE skydiving course. A seamless one on one course from first skydive to first BASE jump and all with the same instructor. A Perris/Potato course of instruction would sell like hotcakes. . . "Hey Tom, another batch coming in on the noon plane, watch out for the loud kid and the old guy, but the rest are good to go." NickD BASE 194 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rpersi 0 #24 July 21, 2005 I am with jamostar on this one. Has anyone missed the fact this person has not even gone through the static line course and is hell bent on getting BASE? After reading your comments, what is your motivation why you want to get this? I'm not trying to be a jerk but do a poll on the EXPERIENCED people who frequent this board and ask them how friends have been lost and bones broken in this sport. You have no experience, little or no training, and have no idea what kind of skydiver you will be let alone be able to take it to the next level such as BASE. Don't trick yourself into thinking I have XX amount of jumps so now I can start trying a hand a BASE. That mindset is an accident waiting to happen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RhondaLea 4 #25 July 21, 2005 ...whatever happened to rational anarchy? My question is this: What is that odd psychological quirk that allows us to make rules for others even as we declare our personal freedom from rules? My next question is: And what's that bit about personal responsibility? The way I figure, we all have the absolute right to choose our own path through life to death. But each and every time someone elects a road that deviates from the common wisdom, all hell breaks loose. On this board, of all places. It just boggles the imagination. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 0
JaapSuter 0 #21 July 20, 2005 QuoteThis thread seems to head a way I didn't intend it to go to Don't worry about it Thijs. There was a time when people had to make twenty mandatory jumps on round parachutes before they would be allowed on squares. Nowadays, everybody jumps squares. Regardless of whether that is a good idea or not, sports change and the people coming into them change. With the changing image of skydiving, and the media coverage of BASE jumps from tall cliffs in beatiful scenery we will only see more people that start skydiving with a sole interest to become a BASE jumper. In fact, I think that Tom Aiello started skydiving solely to get into BASE, and I think he turned out to be a moderately competent BASE jumper, haha. Welcome to the world of flight. Enjoy all its aspects while you can. Have many safe jumps and remember that patience rarely kills. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jamostar 0 #22 July 20, 2005 Well. . . I guess Tom's o.k.Sig lines are so stupid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #23 July 20, 2005 One cool thing about BASE jumping is we are always experimenting and probably will never get to a point when we aren't trying new things. We are still exploring all aspects of this sport and one of them, how to start BASE jumping, has always been in flux. From 1978 to the late 1980s BASE jumping instruction is passed freely from person to person. Most BASE jumpers of the period are already fairly experienced skydivers before they start BASE jumping. There is no question about skydiving before BASE jumping. However, Bridge Day is open to anyone who wants to jump, and there are several cases of people making a first ever jump there. The wisdom of the day said skydiving before BASE backed up by folks like Ritchie S., who made a hundred BASE jumps before his first skydive, and he told people not to learn like he did. There are a few people building BASE rigs and pilot chutes, but these are still home and garage based operations. In 1987 large pilot chutes and longer bridles are being heavily suggested at Bridge Day after Steve Gyrsting towed his skydiving pilot chute to impact. When 1990 rolled around there are a few people calling themselves BASE outfitters. In some cases these folks offered guided trips with BASE gear and instruction included. Keith Jones (now serving in Iraq, see the current issue of SKYDIVING) is an early outfitter and so was Moe Viletto. In the early nineties the garage riggers like the Todd, Adam, and Dennis became Basic Research, Consolidated Rigging, and Gravity Sports Ltd. For the first time Todd found himself selling BASE rigs, and now BASE canopies, to people he didn’t know. Adam worried about it saying BASE rigs are loaded guns and soon all three are offering some form of basic BASE jumping instruction. By 1995 large pilot chutes and longer bridles are mandatory at Bridge Day and fifty previous parachute jumps are required. In 1996 Bill Von wrote the definitive Bridge Day FAQ and its here http://www.afn.org/skydive/skydive/usenet/1996/aug/0520.html where he suggested 100 previous jumps were better. The BASE manufactures are using 150 before selling gear. In the late 90s the number starts to grow and 250 is heard a lot and some people are saying even more should be added. So now here we are still in the infancy of BASE jumping instruction and still experimenting. The stand alone BASE courses are still few and far between. I do believe that the better we get at teaching BASE the more we can shave off the previous jump number. When they started teaching the three-hour first jump skydiving static line course it was called dangerous and mad as every one knew you had to attend weeks of Army training in order to jump. When Ritchie said not to learn the way he did it was a different sport. I'm not saying I'm for Death Camp, but it could head closer to that if we taught BASE well enough. When Paragliding first appeared here in the United States I thought without skydiving experience those people aren't going to last long. I was thinking wuffos just flying around willy nilly. But, look at how good they got and all on their own. I think we are closer to growing our own then we've ever been. All we need is a sympathetic DZ to let us offer a pre-BASE skydiving course. A seamless one on one course from first skydive to first BASE jump and all with the same instructor. A Perris/Potato course of instruction would sell like hotcakes. . . "Hey Tom, another batch coming in on the noon plane, watch out for the loud kid and the old guy, but the rest are good to go." NickD BASE 194 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rpersi 0 #24 July 21, 2005 I am with jamostar on this one. Has anyone missed the fact this person has not even gone through the static line course and is hell bent on getting BASE? After reading your comments, what is your motivation why you want to get this? I'm not trying to be a jerk but do a poll on the EXPERIENCED people who frequent this board and ask them how friends have been lost and bones broken in this sport. You have no experience, little or no training, and have no idea what kind of skydiver you will be let alone be able to take it to the next level such as BASE. Don't trick yourself into thinking I have XX amount of jumps so now I can start trying a hand a BASE. That mindset is an accident waiting to happen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 4 #25 July 21, 2005 ...whatever happened to rational anarchy? My question is this: What is that odd psychological quirk that allows us to make rules for others even as we declare our personal freedom from rules? My next question is: And what's that bit about personal responsibility? The way I figure, we all have the absolute right to choose our own path through life to death. But each and every time someone elects a road that deviates from the common wisdom, all hell breaks loose. On this board, of all places. It just boggles the imagination. rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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