Risk-taking and brain chemistry

[460 0]

what we need for this study are scores of brain damaged thrill seekers willing to be psychologically and physiologically probed, prodded, imaged, and dissected.

Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

[pBASEtobe 0]

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what we need for this study are scores of brain damaged thrill seekers willing to be psychologically and physiologically probed, prodded, imaged, and dissected.

Brain damaged or not (some seem to think I am already) I'll pass. I hate needles!

[NickDG 23]

I don't agree. We all take risks. It's just that some risks are more spectacular than others. The fellow with three children who risks it all on a new business is just as ballsy as I am when I step off the Flatiron building in the middle of the night . . .

NickD BASE 194

[base736 0]

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I don't agree. We all take risks. It's just that some risks are more spectacular than others. The fellow with three children who risks it all on a new business is just as ballsy as I am when I step off the Flatiron building in the middle of the night . . .

That may well be. But I'm willing to bet that, while 100% of the people on the "jumpers" side of the line are about to huck themselves off of a bridge, less than 50% of the people on the other side would take the "new business" risk if given the chance.

I certainly wouldn't claim that 100% of BASE jumpers share some defining trait. However, I have read reports of research (and I wish I had a more concrete reference than that; perhaps nicknitro71 can help out here) indicating that (if I recall correctly) the genetics of the prison population code, on average, for statistically fewer saratonin reuptake inhibitors than one finds in the bulk population -- for, so they hypothesize, reasons similar to those quoted in the article crwper started this off with.

Does that mean that everybody in prison shares this trait? No. Does that mean that everybody with this trait winds up in prison? No. But genetic predisposition is one important (and, I think, interesting) factor in determining behaviour.

Anyway, if the idea of a correlation interests you, then cool. If not, then it's really not that important.

[crwper 7]

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what we need for this study are scores of brain damaged thrill seekers willing to be psychologically and physiologically probed, prodded, imaged, and dissected.

Oh, pick me! Pick me! Never mind.

Michael

[vandev 0]

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what you will find is a cross section of people, humans all, who are (mostly) just trying to have a little fun in this thing we call life . .

I will have to say Nick hit the nail on the head. It's no different Than a surfer or Climber or whatever. You have people that long board malibu at 2 feet and guys who surf Jaws at 30 feet... you have climbers who climb Joshawa Tree and climbers who climb Everest...All risks some big some small ...but all tied to what you are comfortable with..... both with the same objective......have a little fun in this thing we call life.... Why try to explain it...Just live it...

In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle"

[vandev 0]

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I don't agree. We all take risks. It's just that some risks are more spectacular than others. The fellow with three children who risks it all on a new business is just as ballsy as I am when I step off the Flatiron building in the middle of the night .

Nick you are really on.... I think you are more connected than allot of people i know.....

I was thinking about that the other day as i read a retiree in the forums being that he made a promise to his wife to quit to keep his word....That takes balls....To give up what makes you the person you are... for someone else...

For someone like me who has three kids and a wife and are looking to start base.....yes it take balls in the sense to weigh in that you could leave these loved ones without someone they depend on. i think this is my hardest decision.. as they love me for the father and husband i am but would never tell me not to as they know skydiving and the sports i do make me the person they love..... ..

In the end...the universe has a way of working itself out.... "Harold and Kumar go to White Castle"

[RayLosli 11]

Serotonin and Dopamine, my Ass
AHHH yes a bunch of Science trained STIFFS working with Government grants, making, (educated Guesses)...?
On why some people Chose take Risks.
There must be some way that they can make Sense of it all and explain why you act so different from the Majority.

Is there a connection in scientific literature between risk-taking behavior ???
I smell ......
.
.

[eb66to77 0]

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Is there a connection in scientific literature between risk-taking behavior ???

Yes. Figures that some crazy Brit wrote it.Plus I don't think stiffs will be writting anything. Sometimes it isn't too difficult to figure out why people do certain things. The problem is that no one cares until it's a problem, like PTSD(all forms of trauma).

Also Amazon has all kinds of literature on it. I have a plethora of psychology books, written by someone that cares more than I do, sitting all over the house from my wife. I use them to prop the old dvd player on one side when it starts rattling.

[Sean621 0]

i just do it because ia crazy brit....prrts dingwoopoooterebdhdikm!!!stop those bells.

http://www.extreme-on-demand.com

[base736 0]

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AHHH yes a bunch of Science trained STIFFS working with Government grants, making, (educated Guesses)...?

So that's a no on "the idea of a correlation interests you"? I wonder why you took the time to post...

[crwper 7]

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AHHH yes a bunch of Science trained STIFFS working with Government grants, making, (educated Guesses)...?
On why some people Chose take Risks.
There must be some way that they can make Sense of it all and explain why you act so different from the Majority.

I have this image in my mind of some science-trained stiffs busting into Ray's house when he was just a kid, taking his toys, and doing something psychologically damaging to his parents while he looked on. Seriously, man, what's with the chip? People explain things in all kinds of different ways. This is just one of them.

Michael

[crwper 7]

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I don't agree. We all take risks. It's just that some risks are more spectacular than others. The fellow with three children who risks it all on a new business is just as ballsy as I am when I step off the Flatiron building in the middle of the night . . .

I agree that those are both big risks to take. I don't agree that everyone takes that level of risk. There are plenty of people out there who will live out their entire life more or less without laying it all on the line.

Do you really think everyone takes exactly equal risks in their lives? If not, this motivates the question, is there something that the folks who take greater risks have in common? What I don't understand is the largely defensive response in this thread to the fact that someone is trying to answer this question in the best way they know how.

Nor am I excluded from this group. I watched the Aussie 60 Minutes episode and, probably like most of you, I couldn't believe the "sport psychologist" who was trying to explain BASE jumping as a way for jumpers to feel better about themselves, or better than everyone else.

For me, this begs the question, what are we defending ourselves against? It seems like a relatively harmless statement. Yes, it's possible studies like this will influence policy-makers in a way that is not beneficial to the BASE community. But how much energy are we going to spend thinking what idiots these people are? If we hear a theory that we like, we can add it to our understanding of the world. If we don't like it, we can discard it. No harm done. Why do we feel the need to defend ourselves against otherwise-harmless theories that we don't like?

Michael

[TomAiello 25]

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Wheres Skin when we need him?

He has nine days to go, more's the pity.

He has, however, sent me a rather humorous PM. I suspect that his brain may soon explode from a humor overload.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[RayLosli 11]

So that's a no on "the idea of a correlation interests you"?
I wonder why you took the time to post"...
...

I posted because this Thread on the BASE Zone has the least amount of Correlation to It, and actually going out and Making a BASE Jump......

And don't try to take my Toys Away or you will be Sorry.
.
.

[TVPB 0]

Yep - the comments from the sports psych on 60 mins were a little too generalist for me too. This was either achieved by the editors picking out what the general public MAY have wanted to hear, OR, the sports psych's level of understanding was very limited.

The British song bird Dido (as opposed to Dodo who is the extinct free thinking person who is very comfortable with their place in life despite undertaking activities outside the statistical norm ) sang the lyrics: "I am what I am, I do what I want". This is, within reason, the essence of my existance.

Quite frankly, at this point in time, I do not need or feel the need to explain my actions to anyone. As long as I don't actually (as opposed to perceptually ) affect other people's lives, who cares what I do. Individuals who feel threatened by a BASE jumpers ability to undertake an action beyond their wildest comprehensions, should take an unblinkered step back and consider where society would be if EVERY individual was in fact a suppressed clone performing at some average level. Society would not advance.

What the sports psych failed to verbalise or comprehend or consider is that high achievers, by definition, seek internal or external recognition for their performance. This recognition is a part of the feedback control system that helps improve the performance. If you have no feedback, you DO NOT progress. You do not get better. BASE jumpers are in some respects, high performance individuals. Notwithstanding the yahoos who leap without thought or preparation, the majority of the BASE community have highly developed risk management skills and intelligence. Many BASE jumpers are accomplished in their chosen professional careers. Participation in BASE jumping is simply another form of expression of their abilities. Deviation from statistical norms does not always imply some psychological imbalance.

I disagree with the comment that you can't group personality types within the BASE community. You can make some generalisations about common traits of individuals within the group. However, just like everything else in life, their will be exceptions. Subgroups will have some commonalities in reference to certain characteristics (i.e we jump because we are nature lovers), but also some widely fluctuating characteristics. (i.e. one nature lover will be very conservative and quiet whilst another will be a high risk taker and loud).

The comment by the sports psych that we jump due to a need to belong / or for egocentric reasons flies right in the face of the fact that MANY jumps are done in isolation. It clearly shows that his data pool is limited to public events. It would be like measuring the % of the gay population in San Francisco and saying that it correlates to the entire western world. Flawed. Unprofessional. Not very academic if you ask me.

I also believe that there is nothing wrong with people undertaking psychological studies related to risk and adventure, as long as they are taken with the proverbial "grain of salt" when considered by other people. Without some form of research, even our sport would not progress. And lets face it, we are all very greatful for the progression that has occured over the last five years or so.

Stay Safe
Have Fun
Good Luck

Tom B

Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck

The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

[Zennie 0]

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what we need for this study are scores of brain damaged thrill seekers willing to be psychologically and physiologically probed, prodded, imaged, and dissected

Depends on who's doing the probing and prodding.

[Picturing a really hot nurse putting on the rubber gloves and....]

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

[truckerbase 0]

Well, I for one dont jump because I have a chemical imbalance in the brain. I jump because the voices in my head tell me to.

But seriously, you wouldnt be a real base jumper if you were driven to jump by biology. Choosing to jump seems to me the defining characteristic of the more well rounded jumper. If a prescription to balance your mental chemistry could make you stop jumping, then you were peripheral to the sport to begin with.

[RayLosli 11]

Ahhhhh, TB......
I totally agree that Lumping all BASE jumpers into one Chemically Un-balanced group is Total CRAP. and that aint SCIENCE. and you certinaly dont need to explane who or why or for what Reasons drew you to make all those BASE jumps.
but:
What about that need. That -NEED- to go out and, Do-One ??? Hu Hu Hu
That, Craving, Wanting, Crying, Pawing, Urge that builds-up, inside between BASE Jumps ???
If you have been lying around and haven't done a Jump for a weeks time.
You get that Hunger for a BASE Jump.
Why are you Hungry for A BASE jump ?
Why do you get that Need/want, to go out and do another BASE Jump ?
Could there be some sort of Chemistry driven Desire to BASE Jump?

Well let me tell you what my Scientific data Tells Me.
You got to Admit that it's Kinda like going out and ...Getting Your - FIX.
I Got to say That. "Packing your Chute and So Slowly sliding that Closing-Pin through the Loop. Then Stowing that Pilot Chute, Is kinda like,
Interveines foreplay with a Tourniquet & Needle. loaded with Heroin." ?????
Pitching that Pilot-Chute in Free-Fall is like Un-Leashing a Monster, load of China-White to your BRAIN.
Then when you Come-Down (land). All is Calm, Sane and Balanced and you feeeeeeel - GREAT.

What these so called. ( Scientists ) need to do is develop some similar kind of ( Methadone ) like substitute for BASE Jumpers.
Methadone being an Artificial replacement for, Heroine.
To keep you from getting....Extremely fucking - HIGH.... off, getting your next - FIX - (base jump)
That Way. We can -ALL- do the normal sociable acceptable behavior like sitting on our fat-fucking Asses like all the rest of them and Think about doing something Exiting like making a BASE Jumping.
.
I think this Hypothesis totally supports the Fact that I just finished Packing-Up another one and going out again tonight to ...
Get my , FIX
..
.

[base736 0]

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But seriously, you wouldnt be a real base jumper if you were driven to jump by biology.

I hope I never become a "real" BASE jumper. Too many rules and regulations, if what I've read around here is any indication, and the us vs. them thing does nothing for me. If you're looking for me, I'll be over here making fake BASE jumps.



Edit to add: What if the prescription made what was previously enjoyable and frightening just plain frightening? If a person quits jumping after a bad injury, would you actually tell them to their face that they were peripheral to the sport to begin with? I suspect not...

[base736 0]

Dude, you almost made sense there for a moment. It was awe-inspiring, and a little scary.

[truckerbase 0]

Whats the connection between quitting after a bad injury, and having a neurochemical deficiency? Some people have a compulsion to start fires. It doesnt make them any less of a fire starter, but if they choose to start fires without a classical mental illness to motivate them; well at least theyre broader and more well rounded fire starters, will last longer in their chosen outlet, and will adapt better to different aspects of the genre, as well as getting more out of it. I just happen to know people with classic brain chemistry problems who base jump, and they are much less fun to jump with then Ray Losli.

In any case someone who is forced by neurotic chemistry to jump, or to "finish" out their deficient brain chemistry by jumping is far more bound by biological rules then someone who chooses to jump, and must "psych" for the jump. That person is free. It is the first who is trapped and pinioned.

If you jump because youre mad at people than you are choosing to jump, you seek psychological resolution rather than psychiatric or chemical resolution to a biological problem. I imagine we are not talking about the same thing, having casually commented and likely ill-defined our respective opinions and positions.

In any case, we're all jumpers regardless of reason. I made a solo last night (filmed) that didnt get me "high" at all. I stopped getting "high" years ago. I choose to continue...

[base736 0]

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In any case someone who is forced by neurotic chemistry to jump, or to "finish" out their deficient brain chemistry by jumping is far more bound by biological rules then someone who chooses to jump, and must "psych" for the jump. That person is free. It is the first who is trapped and pinioned.

I totally agree. I guess what I want to emphasize is that it's not a black and white thing. Some people might be absolutely compelled by brain chemistry to jump, or to gamble. These people are no healthier (I think) than the folks who are compelled by brain chemistry to, as you say, start fires.

Some people feel no compulsion at all to get near the edge of a cliff. In fact, I know a lot of people for whom that holds absolutely no reward. They feel the fear, but not (for instance) that tingling that says "get closer...".

Me, I get a kick out of standing near the edge even when conditions are such that I'm not going to be jumping. I guess my thought is that many BASE jumpers who are really drawn to the sport are probably predisposed toward it, probably at a level so basic that it's biological. I choose to be in the sport, but I probably wouldn't have made the same choice if I didn't feel the basic draw...

[RayLosli 11]

Base736 ..." Dude, you almost made sense there for a moment. It was awe-inspiring, and a little scary."
.....

Hey, No Problemo
Just trying to make things a little brighter in your life till, SKIN get's back
by Giving , Sloppy-Second's, to Skins brand of Humor.......
.
.

[RhondaLea 3]

I suppose I should make a topical comment here, but for the most part, I disagree with the lot of you. I think Tom almost has it. As for you, Mr. Nitro, your point of view is too deeply colored by what you do. You've got to look at the bigger picture.

But that's not the reason for this post.

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Hey, No Problemo
Just trying to make things a little brighter in your life till, SKIN get's back
by Giving , Sloppy-Second's, to Skins brand of Humor.......

You're a lot of things, Ray--most of them good--but you'll never be up to Skin's standards.

Seven more long, Skinless days. Perhaps we should petition management for a pardon before the whole place falls apart.

God knows, he'll never get time off for good behavior.


rl