Thanatos340 1 #1 January 30, 2004 I have been looking around for a Used First Rig but the deal that Aerodyne is offering on a New Rig seems too good to pass up. I am considering taking the plunge and ordering one today before the sale ends. I was hoping to get some feedback here from those that have jumped the Icon and/or the Pilot. 1. What kind of resale will this Icon/Pilot/Smart combo have? Closer to a Javelin (High) or a Dolphin (low)? 2. How does the Pilot 188 compare to a Sabre 2 or Spectre 190? 3. I walk around at 165 lbs. Would a Pilot 188 be a reasonable first Canopy? 4. Smart Reserves? How do they compare to a PD Reserve? Positives? Negatives? 5. Any Negatives that I should consider about the Icon Container? 6. How is Aerodyne doing with meeting delivery dates? Sorry for so many questions. I know these are all question that I should be asking the vendor, But I wanted to hear what others had to say. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #2 January 30, 2004 Quote1. What kind of resale will this Icon/Pilot/Smart combo have? Closer to a Javelin (High) or a Dolphin (low)? *** Well there's really no history to base it on. It hase not been on the market long enough to be resold. My gut feeling is that with the mark this company will make in the next couple years, the resale should be no problem, as it is a really nice piece of equipment, and with as soft as the USED gear market has become everything will even out. Javelins really don't resale for any more than any of the other major manufacturers on average. Besides with the savings you get on the front end, you won't loose anything. 2. How does the Pilot 188 compare to a Sabre 2 or Spectre 190?Quote Compared to the Sabre 2 it's simalar, and from my experience snivels a bit longer in the openings. The "meat" of the flare on the Sabre 2 is higher in relation to the length of the toggle stroke. PD afficianodos will recognize this as a trait of PD canopies. Overall a nice canopy. Compared to the Specter? No comparison, the Triathon would be closer. 3. I walk around at 165 lbs. Would a Pilot 188 be a reasonable first Canopy? Quote That puts you at about a 1.0 loading. If you're comfortable with that (read: have jumped a 190ish and been reasonably safe) then yes, that's acceptable. 4. Smart Reserves? How do they compare to a PD Reserve? Positives? Negatives? Quote Compare them in what way? They are a different canopy. The flair well and apear to be constructed like a brick shithouse. 5. Any Negatives that I should consider about the Icon Container? Quote None that I can think of, It's a nice rig, has a lot of features. I'm not super excited about the overall look, but that's just my opinion of what looks good. 6. How is Aerodyne doing with meeting delivery dates? *** So far fine. They have told me they have more than enough production capability avaliable.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ReLLiK75 0 #3 January 30, 2004 I've ordered a complete system and was told that I should hopefully have it by the end of Feb. That brings it right in line with the 8 week delivery date I was originally quoted. I can't give you comparisons on the Pilot vs the Sabre, but I will say that I've flown the Pilot 188. I demo'd one when Aerodyne came out for a boogie at my DZ, and then GravityGear (where I bought the rig from) sent me a 188 to demo until my rig arrives. All I have to say about the Pilot is--wow!!! what a canopy. Flies great and lands even better! I weigh in around 175 and was pretty happy with the way the 188 flew for me, but for my system, I ordered a 168. One thing Aubrey (from Aerodyne) told me before I flew the 188 is that I may notice some end-cell closure on opening just due to the fact that at 175, I wasn't really loading a 188 the way it was meant to be loaded. Sure enough, on my first jump, there was some slight closure, but it quickly corrected itsself. Now I had been flying a Falcon 215 over the last year. I knew that eventually I wanted to be on a 170 size main. I've been demoing the 188 simply to give myself some experience on the smaller ZP canopy before going to the 168. Depending on your experience level, you may want to consider the 168 vs the 188, but I'd ask around at your DZ to see if the more experienced jumpers who know you think you'll be able to handle the 168. __________________________________________ Have you Got Flare? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #4 January 30, 2004 You will be more then happy with one of these systems if you get it. For the price right now you just can't beat it. I have written a review about the Pilot. Check it out in the new gear section.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rodmud 0 #5 February 12, 2004 Hi, I'm replying just to tell you not trust in Aerodyne delivery dates, because in my first order in Aerodyne (2 sponsored canopies, 1 Pilot 150 and 1 Vison 124) they take a very long time until the delivery. That caused me a lot of problems, because I had compromises with my sponsors to an event and I lost it because didn’t have the canopies. And why? Bad service of Aerodyne... I told it to them and they promised it wouldn’t be any more delays. But, in 19-09-2003 I ordered an Icon sport I5 with a Smart 160 Reserve canopy, and Aerodyne gave me 8 weeks of delivery time. Past that 8 weeks, they told me that I had to wait another 8 weeks...After almost 16 weeks of my order date I sent an e-mail to know if everything was alright, but until now they didn’t gave me an answer... Now, we are at 12-02-2004 and I have no rig and no answer from Aerodyne since 16-01-2004!!!!! I sent mails and faxes to Aerodyne-Europe and to the guy that deal with me and no one answered…. From Aerodyne I only have the silence… I think I must go to France, where the office center of Europe is located, to solve my problem. I can’t believe in such a thing like that in our days!!!! I'm really really disappointed with this kind of professionalism in Aerodyne....!!!!! --------------------------------------- MudFly - tri-dimensional flight http://www.mudfly.net Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #6 February 12, 2004 QuoteBut, in 19-09-2003 I ordered an Icon sport I5 with a Smart 160 Reserve canopy, The Aerodyne Icon system was not released into production until November of 2003. QuoteI'm replying just to tell you not trust in Aerodyne delivery dates, because in my first order in Aerodyne (2 sponsored canopies, 1 Pilot 150 and 1 Vison 124) they take a very long time until the delivery. That caused me a lot of problems, because I had compromises with my sponsors to an event and I lost it because didn’t have the canopies. What do you mean by "sponsored" canopies? QuoteI can’t believe in such a thing like that in our days!!!! I'm really really disappointed with this kind of professionalism in Aerodyne....!!!!! We have had nothing but good service and suport from Aerodyne USA.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amy 0 #7 February 12, 2004 QuoteWe have had nothing but good service and suport from Aerodyne USA. Blue Skies, -jp- As have I. In the last 6 months, I've ordered a number of parts and a canopy from Aerodyne. All arrived ahead of schedule, and they've been very responsive to telephone and email inquiries. Amy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,412 #8 February 12, 2004 >I'm replying just to tell you not trust in Aerodyne delivery dates . . . Aubrey got me a Pilot ahead of schedule for Thailand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rodmud 0 #9 February 12, 2004 QuoteWhat do you mean by "sponsored" canopies? The "sponsored" canopies are 2 canopies that have my sponsor logo (advertise). QuoteWe have had nothing but good service and support from Aerodyne USA. I don't know if is only my problem, or is only in Aerodyne Europe, but my experience with Aerodyne was not the best until now.... and I still have no answer by Aerodyne-Europe!!!! do you think this is normal or good service, as you said?! --------------------------------------- MudFly - tri-dimensional flight http://www.mudfly.net Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aubsmell 0 #10 February 12, 2004 Sorry to hear your frustration, and I'd just like to let you know I have sent an email on your behalf to the European Sales Manager. I don't know who would quote you those delivery times. The Icon didn't even get it's TSO until late november and they only had one week of building time until our factory closed for a month for the holidays. Here in the US all the Icons that we sold in December and January were quoted a delivery time of 8-10 weeks from January 12, and just 8-10 weeks for all those ordered after January 12th. That means the VERY earliest someone would have gotten their rig would be March 12. As for canopies they have been catagorically on time or even early. With a promised time of 6-8 weeks for custom orders. As I said for the Icon we promised 8-10 weeks from Jan 12th and I have been informed that we will get our first three early next week (meaning just 4 weeks delivery), they have already been shipped from our production facility, meaning there will be three happy skydivers when the get their complete systems a month early. I was actually pretty worried that this being our first trial of serious production we would suffer some hicups or growing pains, but the powers that be are assuring me that I will be able to keep all my promises, and they say that the production time is only going to improve. As long as we can keep those orders coming in so that we can keep the craftsmen busy we could shave off a couple of weeks by early spring. As I said I'm really sorry for your wait, but American customers fear not, we are still right on track (famous last words) Aubrey Easterlin Sales Manager Aerodyne (USA)"Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #11 February 13, 2004 When did they release the Icon in Europe? I wonder if he bought one early from a dealer and they didn't bother to tell him they weren't being produced yet. I have only seen quick delivery times from Aerodyne. Canopies quick and on time if not early. Icons we just started to order last month and they aren't due yet anyway. I bet we start seeing some real quick here.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #12 February 13, 2004 Sorry to hear about your issues. Aerodyne-USA has gone above and beyond in the customer service department for us so far. So far everything has been on schedule. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rodmud 0 #13 February 13, 2004 First of all, thanks for your reply. QuoteThe Icon didn't even get his TSO until late november The first time I knew that the ICON had no TSO was 8 weeks after the order, it was when Aerodyne told me that.... Now, I ask: If you don't have TSO why you have put the ICON in your web site in 19-09-2003 for sale? At that time, I made a transfer to Aerodyne account of 20% of the total amount as it was the agreement (I dealed directly with Aerodyne-Europe, with Mr. Arnold Collenteur)!!! So you don't have TSO and you are already selling in your website? I don't understand this! Worst, Aerodyne didn't tell me nothing about this TSO when I made my order. They just told me that my rig will be ready for shipping in the beginning of December. After that, in 17-11-2003, Aerodyne told me about the TSO and that my rig will be ready for shipping in 29th January... and in 16-01-2004 I checked if everything was alright with my order and the answer from Aerodyne was positive, so I proceed to transfer the rest of money (80% of the total of amount) to Aerodyne account. Since then I ear nothing from Aerodyne... The only reply is the silence!!!! The worst thing for me in this complicated deal is the silence from Aerodyne-Europe!!! Sorry but I don't understand this and I can’t considerer this good work or professionalism!! For proof I have all e-mails and faxes sent and received with me. --------------------------------------- MudFly - tri-dimensional flight http://www.mudfly.net Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rodmud 0 #14 February 13, 2004 QuoteI wonder if he bought one early from a dealer and they didn't bother to tell him they weren't being produced yet. I dealed directly with Aerodyne-Europe... --------------------------------------- MudFly - tri-dimensional flight http://www.mudfly.net Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #15 February 13, 2004 I am wondering if some of rodmud's confusion is caused by different certification dates for European JTSO and American FAA TSO? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aubsmell 0 #16 February 13, 2004 It sounds like you got a little bit of the shaft, and mind you I'm not necessarily privy to all that goes on in Europe, so I can only comment on what was/is happing in the U.S. Market. However I know that prior to the release of the Icon they were offering it for sale at a drastically reduced rate, and what you were getting for that price was a product that they couldn't make any promisis of time on. The Icon has been finished since early 2003 but the matter of getting a TSO is a bueracratic hurdle to say the least. I know when I started here in October I was told almost daily that everything was done, we were just waiting for the final signatures from the FAA office in Brussels, which I can totally believe, dealing with American government employees is never a quick process, just ask anyone who has ever been to the DMV. As for selling it prior to having a TSO, there are customers here who ordered it as early as July 27, we told these people that it was an "open ended delivery time" The only thing I can imagine is that once all the paperwork was submited and every thing but the signiture on the TSO was done, he felt confident in telling you those delivery times. I certainly don't like to make excuses, and I'm sorry you got hosed, again I'll try to make sure he contacts you, he has been out of his office (with the world team) for the past 4 weeks. If you ever make it to Florida, shoot me an email I owe you a couple of beers at least. Aubrey Easterlin Sales Manager Aerodyne (USA)"Those who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airborne03 0 #17 February 15, 2004 Quote If you ever make it to Florida, shoot me an email I owe you a couple of beers at least.Quote aubrey is good at that...just dont take his vodka and redbulls! got to love the night in gainesville! waiting for my icon and vision to come in! "Airborne all the way" EL Cantador Rodriguez Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BlindBrick 0 #18 February 16, 2004 So where do we find info about this sale? -Blind"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
BlindBrick 0 #18 February 16, 2004 So where do we find info about this sale? -Blind"If you end up in an alligator's jaws, naked, you probably did something to deserve it." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
