Newbie Questions

[nosplat4me 0]

Hello,

I just finished AFF and had a few questions regarding a couple of terms I heard used.

Cock the pilot chute? What is that?

Kill line? "this rig has a kill line" What is that?

2 Stage flare? What is that or how is it done?

PLF??

I know they are common terms, but any info would be great while I transition over from a whuffo to a skydiver!

Thanks,

[DShiznit 0]

You completed AFF and don't know what a PLF is????

[nosplat4me 0]

I probably do, just not as an acronym.

[theskydiveguy 0]

PLF --> Parachute Landing Fall ;) Keep it in the back of you mind.. it may save your bones one day

~Jeff
Monkey Brother #1
http://www.monkeybrothers.ca

[lazyfrog 0]

kill line : it is one of the systems used to "kill" the pilot chute once the canopy is deployed. It helps reduce the drag and increase flight performance of the main canopy. Not used on student canopies (normally) An other commonly used system is the sandow which also collapses the PC

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Fumer tue, péter pue
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ourson #10, Mosquito Uno, CBT 579

[falxori 0]

cock the pilot chute : what we do with "kill line pilot chutes" in order for them to be ready for the next jump (just look for someone holding the bag with one leg and streching the pilot chute and ask)

kill line : a "device" on the pilot chute that causes it to collapse after deployment, reducing the drag, hence it has to be "cocked" before the next jump so it will be able to pull the bag out.

stage flare: if i understand what you're talking about, its a 2 stage flaring technique, but i wont go into that because i'm not sure thats what you mean

PLF: in simpler term : fall and roll so you dont break anything, they should have shown it to you during AFF.

O

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[tombuch 0]

All those things should have been covered in your AFF training. You may not recognize the words, but you should know about the concepts. Most student gear doesn't have a "kill line" or need the pilot chute to be cocked, but as an AFF graduate you should be capable of doing a oin check on that kind of common gear and should have been trained to do so.

I'm betting you learned about a parachute landing fall (PLF) but didn't hear it called that. If you missed this important skill please follow up with your instructor.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor (AFF, SL, Iad, Tandem)
Author JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[nosplat4me 0]

Thanks for the info, It makes better sense now. I was referring to a "Two Stage" flare... Can you elaborate?

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

Ask someone at the dz to show you how a kill line pc works. it's much easier to see it working than try and pick it up from a forum. Ask WTF a PLF is while you're there

____________________
Say no to subliminal messages

[falxori 0]

i think it means, first slow down by breaking half way (or a bit less) and then flare by pulling the brakes all the way.

i know some newbies land like that because its easier until they learn to flare at the right momnet.

this is the point where i tell you to take anything I or anyone else here say, like it is, free advice from people who could be clueless.
not saying that i am, but always use your head

O

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[Jib 0]

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i think it means, first slow down by breaking half way (or a bit less) and then flare by pulling the brakes all the way.

If you need brakes to slow down before you land, you may want to consider a bigger canopy.

Flare to the point necessary to stop/slow downward descent and then continue to add brakes as necessary to maintain the altitude. If you pop up a little, you added a little too much, but don't panic, just ride it. If you're jumping student gear, it may seem like one giant flare. Finish the flare for a soft landing.

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the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[chuckbrown 0]

2 stage flares are generally required with zp canopies and not f111s that students jump with. the first stage slows the descent rate and puts the canopy in more horizontal flight while the second stage stalls the wing (ideally with your feet on or near the ground). most f111s require a single full flare. If you do a 2 stage with an f111 you're not going to have sufficient energy left to have an acceptable flare. my .02.

[skychic68 0]

Your best bet is to hang out at the DZ as much as possible. Live there onthe weekends if you can. There will be so much that you will hear and don't have a clue about.....but ASK. Interupt and ask them what it means.

It's pretty difficult in the initial stages to learn all the jargon related to this sport, but it will come....as long as you keep asking. If you don't ask...it may just get you killed one day

Be safe and have fun.

Que sera sera

[TribalTalon 0]

VERY good advice. i've basically lived at the dz every weekend since i started out, and i've learned alot just hanging around talking to people. i dont know about the two stage flare but i was taught to go FLARE TWO THREE. like, start it out, then go to your chest, then to your knees and prepare to plf. *shrugs*

[TomAiello 25]

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You completed AFF and don't know what a PLF is????

I didn't learn what a PLF was until I started BASE jumping. My skydiving instruction did not include any references to PLF, PLF training, or even an explanation of what a PLF was.

I got an old paratrooper I worked with to teach me a PLF, after he explained to me what it was.

edit to add: I also completed my training without knowing how a kill line PC worked. Training varies widely in quality. Don't criticize the student who didn't learn things that weren't covered. At least he's asking, and trying to figure things out.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[skybytch 259]

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Don't criticize the student who didn't learn things that weren't covered. At least he's asking, and trying to figure things out.

Okay, I'll criticize whoever graduated both you and the poster without knowing not just what a PLF is but also how to do one properly. To me that is inexcusable on the part of the people who taught you to skydive. PLF's are a survival skill.

[DShiznit 0]

I wasn't criticizing in the least, was merely dumbfounded that any USPA certified instructor would graduate a student without properly teaching them how to keep from breaking a leg (or worse) on a hard landing, let alone have them get in a plane.

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Okay, I'll criticize whoever graduated both you and the poster without knowing not just what a PLF is but also how to do one properly. To me that is inexcusable on the part of the people who taught you to skydive. PLF's are a survival skill.

Precisely my point.

[Samurai136 0]

Troll?!

I'm suprised a greenie would feed a troll.

Ken

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[TomAiello 25]

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...I'll criticize whoever graduated both you and the poster without knowing not just what a PLF is but also how to do one properly.

And rightly so. Instruction varies widely in quality. Some of it pretty much plain sucks.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[skychic68 0]

Sucks may not be exactly the best word....you can be a little harsher than that.

The bottom line is that if proper instruction isn't given to new folks, we can see an increase in injuries and perhaps deaths in our sport.

Isn't this exactly why USPA modified the first jump course and every category thereafter. Students should not be getting through these levels or obtaining licenses without basic and lifesaving knowledge. This is not only a disaster waiting to happen, but it sure as hell doesn't give us much credibility.

I would encourage all students who are basically consumers to ask questions, get what you pay for, etc. When you go to a doctor, don't you basically do the same thing? Evaluate the instruction you recieve and if it isn't adequate, go somewhere else. Your life could depend on it.

Que sera sera

[tombuch 0]

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Isn't this exactly why USPA modified the first jump course and every category thereafter. Students should not be getting through these levels or obtaining licenses without basic and lifesaving knowledge.

Yup. And all the standards are published in the SIM. Every drop zone should have these books available for student use, and every instructor should make sure students know about the SIM. It is available as a FREE download from http://uspa.org/publications/manuals.htm, and also available for sale from the USPA store.

The idea behind publishing the SIM and ISP is to encourage students to research each level and the specific information they should know at each point in their training. USPA knows that sometimes instructors slack off, and sometimes even the best instructors can miss material is the hustle and bustle of a busy day. A well informed student will know what he should be taught and will prompt an instructor to cover missed material. Unfortunately, many students graduate without even knowing there is a SIM, much less having access to a copy.

The basic education of consumers was the objective of my recent book. I looked around and saw students selecting drop zones based on the 3-P's (Price, Promotion, and Proximity), with no knowledge or understanding or quality issues. JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy was written to give consumers enough information to make informed decisions about our sport. Unfortunately, many drop zones would rather consumers not know about USPA programs, not ask questions, and not compare programs with each other, or with a national standard.

So, when you hear a student or recent graduate asking questions, provide a complete answer, and then turn them on to the SIM, Parachuting: The Skydivers Handbook, or JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy. Help our potential customers, students and graduates to build their knowledge base.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor (AFF, SL, IAD, Tandem)
Author JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[kitof1976 0]

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...I'll criticize whoever graduated both you and the poster without knowing not just what a PLF is but also how to do one properly.

And rightly so. Instruction varies widely in quality. Some of it pretty much plain sucks.

I am with Tom on this one... Not the fault of the students that some DZ instruction sucks... when you are new to the sport, you don't really know what the standards of intruction should be. So you take the instruction you receive as "nornal".
A whole lot of things were not covered in my instruction... But I only realized that after a few dozen jumps... and a few month in the sport! Scary but so true.
Luckily I was able to fill my "bag" of experience/knowledge by asking questions around like the poster before my "bag" of luck ran out...

"We see the world just the way we are...

[kitof1976 0]

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Isn't this exactly why USPA modified the first jump course and every category thereafter. Students should not be getting through these levels or obtaining licenses without basic and lifesaving knowledge. This is not only a disaster waiting to happen, but it sure as hell doesn't give us much credibility.

I completely agree with you... the facts are that some DZ.s are not USAP and don't follow the USPA jump courses...They basically have their own methods of teaching skydiving!

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I would encourage all students who are basically consumers to ask questions, get what you pay for, etc. When you go to a doctor, don't you basically do the same thing? Evaluate the instruction you recieve and if it isn't adequate, go somewhere else. Your life could depend on it.

That's is exactly where I screwed up. I did not ask questions nor questioned anything or the training. I took things for granted... When you are new to skydiving and a DZ you don't know any better.

"We see the world just the way we are...