Keeping yourself safe.

[nigel99 150]

A recent discussion got me thinking and some of Trae and Sparkies posts in incidents have really got me thinking.

As a jumper it is possible to disregard all learning and simply clock up jump numbers. What in your opinion should a jumper be actively doing to be as "heads up" and safe as possible?

I am asking in the broadest possible sense, so I would not be surprised to see riggers having a different emphasis on what constitutes safety, to a jump pilot for example.

From my very limited experience, I have observed the following in no particular order of importance. But all of the following have been "outstanding" levels of contribution as part of my progression, and are habits that I intend to acquire.

1) Instructor actively staying involved in the progression of people with <200 jumps. Safer new jumpers is safer for everyone on the jump.

2) Jumper very alert to other jumpers gear checks.

3) Actively engaging in the exit count for groups and ensuring adequate separation and a good spot - even though it had nothing to do with him.

4) Teaching tracking skills and actively encouraging their development.

5) Rigger who actively encourages jumpers to understand equipment, its weaknesses, limitations and how it works.

6) Seasoned jumpers prepared to do 2 way coach/training jumps with less experienced jumpers. Not talking about students, but any area where people are looking to develop skills. I have personally had a lot of support in this area, but I have a friend with 1000+ jumps who is learning how to FF and she was helped out recently, so even D licensed people can benefit.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[topdocker 0]

7) Learn the flight characteristics of your canopy and fly a predictable flight pattern for your dropzone. Know where the other canopies are in the air and keep looking for others.

top

Jump more, post less!

[DSE 3]

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6) Seasoned jumpers prepared to do 2 way coach/training jumps with less experienced jumpers. Not talking about students, but any area where people are looking to develop skills. I have personally had a lot of support in this area, but I have a friend with 1000+ jumps who is learning how to FF and she was helped out recently, so even D licensed people can benefit.

In this, *anyone* can benefit. I've had the opportunity to train world champions with 25,000+ skydives on down to the guy that has 0 jumps. Would-be wingsuiters for example, that have 10,000 skydives are still about the same as the guy that has only 200 jumps in terms of nervousness (and sometimes, ability).

What can you do to stay safe?
~seek out mentors in your specific desired discipline and follow their coaching as though you were a newbie. I know little of CRW, but Chris Gay, Eric Gallan, and people of similar quality are my go-to. In other words, get with people who are not only experienced, but respected, measured, and are safety conscious.

~use experiences of others as a learning opportunity. The concept of "that'll never happen to me" is just plain dumb, especially in this sport.

~learn to crawl before walking, learn to walk before running, and for hell's sake, learn to fly your belly before you begin trying to fly on your ass. As an Examiner, it's frustrating to see people come through courses with 1K skydives hoping or a rating, only to find out they're wasting their time because they cannot fly on their bellies. And no.... "Dude, I did 50 belly jumps before I learned to freefly!" doesn't count. Master flat skills before moving on to other axis'.

~Log your jumps. Sounds silly, but writing about a jump cements experiences. It's tactile and offers another method of recall. This will help you later down the road if you become an instructor.

~Learn to fly your canopy. Not only follow Billvon's checklist, but also get some coaching. Even if you think you're flying great, never had a problem; get someone more experienced to watch you, film you, debrief even your best landings. There is ALWAYS something to learn.

~Explore. When you feel you're ready, try new things, because not only are you exposed to new things, you might discover new methods in what you're already doing.

~Above all else...take it slow. The sky is always gonna be there. The sky is patient; learn from that.

[DaVinciflies 0]

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Master flat skills before moving on to other axis'.

People say that a lot and I don't think it is true.

As long as you can track and be stable at pull time there is nothing wrong with not mastering belly flying if it holds no interest for you.

[yeyo 1]

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Master flat skills before moving on to other axis'.

People say that a lot and I don't think it is true.

As long as you can track and be stable at pull time there is nothing wrong with not mastering belly flying if it holds no interest for you.

I can not think of any sport were you can get good at it without mastering the basics. Skydiving isnt any different.

edit: Sure someone can hold a sit at 50 jumps, but its gona take him 5x longer to get good at it. And at the end, hes just gona be an incomplete jumper.

HISPA #93
DS #419.5

[mjosparky 3]

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Master flat skills before moving on to other axis'.

People say that a lot and I don't think it is true.

As long as you can track and be stable at pull time there is nothing wrong with not mastering belly flying if it holds no interest for you.

Since you choose to post anonymously it’s hard to know where you are coming from. But if you disagree with that statement you would be wrong.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Trae 1]

in reply to "As long as you can track and be stable at pull time there is nothing wrong with not mastering belly flying if it holds no interest for you. "
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One way to help keep yourself safe is to recognise questionable advice....perhaps by cross checking.

Too many people I've heard talking like this 0 jumper just aren't around anymore.
The problem is they cut themselves off from hard learnt lessons and then get to see how we learnt it.
OUCH.

[JackC1 0]

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Master flat skills before moving on to other axis.

Would you mind defining "master". Is that 100 flat jumps? 1000 jumps? Being good enough to get on invitational big way jumps? Breaking a 20 point average in 4-way? Winning the nationals in AAA? What?

[nigel99 150]

Thanks DSE and Top lots of good tips in there.

A few other things that I have remembered.

~ Have the balls to say no. Could be trying to squeeze one last jump in before a storm, jumping with people you are uncomfortable with.

Stay within your limits. I have only just got recurrent, and a 4 way that I was on, became an 8 way. I should have backed out at that point but I didn't. It took 2 failed jumps before I had the balls to say it was too much for me.

~ Plan your dive and stick to it. I won't be doing RW where the dive is verbally thrown together on the bus or ride to altitude again.

~ Don't rush to get on the next load. A sloppy pack job thrown together to make the next load is simply not worth it.

~ Properly maintain your gear.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[craigbey 0]

DaVinciflies = DocPop

[airtwardo 6]

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Master flat skills before moving on to other axis.

Would you mind defining "master". Is that 100 flat jumps? 1000 jumps? Being good enough to get on invitational big way jumps? Breaking a 20 point average in 4-way? Winning the nationals in AAA? What?

How about being able to turn a clean series, and leave last/close last with confidence on an 8way...that would be a good start.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[yeyo 1]

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Master flat skills before moving on to other axis.

Would you mind defining "master". Is that 100 flat jumps? 1000 jumps? Being good enough to get on invitational big way jumps? Breaking a 20 point average in 4-way? Winning the nationals in AAA? What?

...being able to go anywhere without thinking about it ?

HISPA #93
DS #419.5

[billvon 2,434]

>Would you mind defining "master". Is that 100 flat jumps? 1000 jumps?

Choose your own definition. Most people are able to determine their own skill level in a sport, and are fairly aware when they have reached a level of competence.

[Trae 1]

in reply to "Would you mind defining "master". Is that 100 flat jumps? 1000 jumps?

Choose your own definition. Most people are able to determine their own skill level in a sport, and are fairly aware when they have reached a level of competence. "
...............................

Thankfully yes.

Funny what us humans can get up to though.
We just might hide our mistakes, lie about our jump numbers , and have unrealistic delusions about our skill level.

Having friends who will tell you when you're not up to it can be a nice safety valve.

[kd5xb 1]

As I've learned the hard way -- don't get in too big of a hurry. Works for skydiving, driving an 18-wheeler, flying an airplane, cooking a good steak...

I'm a jumper. Even though I don't always have money for jumps, and may not ever own a rig again, I'll always be a jumper.

[JackC1 0]

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>Would you mind defining "master". Is that 100 flat jumps? 1000 jumps?

Choose your own definition. Most people are able to determine their own skill level in a sport, and are fairly aware when they have reached a level of competence.

That's a surprising answer. Can we also apply this logic to wing loading and go pros?

[tbrown 26]

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Master flat skills before moving on to other axis.

Would you mind defining "master". Is that 100 flat jumps? 1000 jumps? Being good enough to get on invitational big way jumps? Breaking a 20 point average in 4-way? Winning the nationals in AAA? What?

How about making smooth consistent zero momentum docks. As a belly flier, I don't do hybrids anymore because I'm sick and tired of being gut slammed by too many freefliers who can't seem to slow down before they dock. It not only hurts, it's dangerous.

The best freefliers are also graceful belly fliers, I'm just talking about the kids who skip ahead to skidding around on their asses and think they're skydiving.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[mjosparky 3]

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Master flat skills before moving on to other axis.

Would you mind defining "master". Is that 100 flat jumps? 1000 jumps? Being good enough to get on invitational big way jumps? Breaking a 20 point average in 4-way? Winning the nationals in AAA? What?

How about making smooth consistent zero momentum docks. As a belly flier, I don't do hybrids anymore because I'm sick and tired of being gut slammed by too many freefliers who can't seem to slow down before they dock. It not only hurts, it's dangerous.

The best freefliers are also graceful belly fliers, I'm just talking about the kids who skip ahead to skidding around on their asses and think they're skydiving.

+1 Good call Tom.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[billvon 2,434]

>That's a surprising answer. Can we also apply this logic to wing loading and go pros?

After they've made 100 or 1000 video jumps? Yes.

The problem is (often) that people simply don't know what they don't know, and they find out the hard way that they don't know enough to even start trying something (like wingsuiting or camera.) Much of the effort that goes into the camera or wingsuit issue is trying to keep people from starting until they have enough experience/training to do it at even the most basic level safely.

Most skydivers reach a point in any new discipline they try where they realize how little they really know about it. That's the point you want to help them reach. Generally someone who tries doing 4 way video will get to a point where he says "wow, it's actually pretty hard to keep that 4 way in frame during the exit." That's a good thing; it means they're in a position to really start learning how to do camera well.

It's a lot worse for them to realize half a second before impact that their camera really is a pretty big distraction. Generally can't learn from that sort of a mistake.